Comics The history of Amazing Spider-Man controversy

[Styleshift]

Aloha,
One of the nice things about being an OLD guy(fan man) is that you can remember all of the great debates that have happened in the life of Spidey.
1-Ditko left and Romita Sr. took over-fans cried foul for almost two years about the changes. Romita Sr. was accused of turning Spidey into Millie the Model. Alan Moore told him that Spider-Man DIED with Amazing Spider-Man #39( See the latest Marvel Spotlight-Inside Brand New Day)
2-Death of Capt and then Gwen Stacy-some fans never came back after the death of Gwen.
3-Black Costume-some loved it, some HATED it.Lasted for several yers in the life of Spidey.
4-The Marriage of peter and MJ-what started out as a publicity stunt became status quo for Spidey both in comics and comic strip for many years.Some were against it from the start others loved the idea.
5-McFarlane era-some loved him, some HATED him. Lasted for several years in both Amazing and Adjectiveless.
6-Clone Saga-you fill in the blank
7-Death of Aunt May-some thought it was very well done. Romita Sr. reports that killing Aunt May was something that was proposed ever since his days and he fought it every time.
8-Death of Ben reily-Some still want him back in some form or another.
9-End of Volume one(Gathering of Five)-major change to Amazing that lead into
10-Byrne era-v.2-Some hated him
11-JMS-Some loved his first few isssues then love turned to hate
12-OMD-You fill in the blank

My point to this is that in the 46 years of Amazing Spider-Man there has NEVER been a major change to the character that did not produce a backlash among fans.Romita Sr talks about after 2 years on Amazing, there were still people asking him, "When is Ditko coming back?"
Amazing Spider-Man didn't die with #39 nor #545.
I've been around for all the great debates and good Lord willing, I'll be around for many more,WhY? because
SPIDEY RULES

I didn't know that Alan Moore made that statement to whom I personally consider the greatest Spider-man artist ever. I actually loved the fact that Peter grew out of the whole nerd bit. I mean the guy is fighting super villains, for crying out loud and if anything had been established before in the comics, the last thing he ever wanted to be is a nerd.....it kind of all makes sense in the end, because he's NOT Clark Kent. lol.

Great list of facts you compiled there bud.
Although I would like to respectfully point something out.

All of those changes that occurred in the past have progressed the character. Sure some fans cry foul any chance they get....but I don't like how some of us fans that aren't accepting this Brand new day have been suddenly categorized....from Angry Internet mob to Gay marriage supporters.

Let's all face it.
NO ONE but marvel knows whats going on with our fav. character as of now...and it's been that way for 9 months now. This reboot wiped the slate clean, where as all the things you listed early progressed the character (whether it was loved or hated.)



Not only do many fans commonly agree that it is the worst Spidey story ever told. Most people are forgetting it came right off the heels of the part of JMS' run that fans generally hated. (Sin's past. The other)

I know I can't speak for everyone...
but I think I'm going to take my Amazing in small doses from now on. lol.

I have checked out New ways to die, and its the best thing to come out of BND. It really feels like Spidey again. REAL Spidey.
having said that....they COULD have worked around the marriage...but hey its not over yet.
I do think its really interesting to see whether this OMD/BND stuff will sink or swim. I can tell you one thing though....Marvel seems a bit worried.

 

[iloveclones]

Well, I think a lot of people would argue with you that the clone saga or Chapter One progressed the character.

Did they regress the character? Probably. By their own admission, they're writing him a little younger. Does it matter to me? Not really. I would rather the character continue, for me, and for whomever is going to dig him in the future.

 

[Styleshift]

Well, I think a lot of people would argue with you that the clone saga or Chapter One progressed the character.

Did they regress the character? Probably. By their own admission, they're writing him a little younger. Does it matter to me? Not really. I would rather the character continue, for me, and for whomever is going to dig him in the future.

lol. I know, I'll be ready for the fan boy purists when/If they show up.
My point was all those things were meant to add to the character, whether it was a good thing or bad. OMD wiped out half of the things that were happening to Spidey and now they are saying we'll give you a reason later.

but about him feeling younger.....
That problem has existed far before BND.So why are fans complaining this BND Peter is immature? well....coming off the heels of the mature Spidey that JMS has written for years its easy to feel that way since we're used to the way JMS handles him.

I do feel "the brain trust" has taken Spidey back waaaay too much and seem to be trying to hard to find the right groove. (Not the case with Slott and Wells.)

However I will say that I think it all depends on the writer on how they feel Spider-man should be written (and what era of Spidey they remember best.)

Look at Bendis. well...than again he does write everything in his own continuity so, i'm not sure if he counts. (vampire carnage anyone?)

since Spidey has gone from 16 to about 27 over the years. (and 30 something after the marriage if you ask JQ.) It's pretty easy to see why sometimes he's mature....and sometimes he's not. Is this right? heck no. but its been happening for a while...so I agree with clones. its nothing to complain about.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

1-Ditko left and Romita Sr. took over-fans cried foul for almost two years about the changes. Romita Sr. was accused of turning Spidey into Millie the Model. Alan Moore told him that Spider-Man DIED with Amazing Spider-Man #39( See the latest Marvel Spotlight-Inside Brand New Day)

Seriously? Man, the more interviews and quotes i read from Alan Moore, the more i dislike him.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

How old are you, jackass? Twelve?

Get the hell off these boards already.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Thank you for this uninformative waste of time. Now that you've shown that everything will have its fans and haters, could you tell me what color the sky is? Aloha! Romita told me it also means bye.

Right. So dont let the door slam you in the ass on the way out.


Actually, no; LET it slam you.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, as Styleshift pointed out, some of those things progressed the character while OMD/BND degresses the character.

Some of the things were like creative team changes, which there are always creative team changes that people do or do not like.

I do not like the fact that Marvel blows off it's angry long time loyal fans.

We are blown off because:

1.) We are able to use the internet. We own computers and know how to type. That makes our opinions invalid and they say they don't care about us and what we say if we (can) use the internet.

2.) They have admitted now that they get lots of hate mail (thru the post office), but instead of acknowledging our points through THAT venue and not thru the internet (which elimates our opinion automatically according to them), well...if you send snail mail...then they label us as Gay MArriage Supporters and STILL IGNORE our points.

So....you can use regular mail OR internet...and either way...the end result is you are ignored or labeled...but IGNORED regardless!!

And, you can ask Joe at conventions, IN PERSON, and he STILL ginores you and downplays what people do not like and instead takes it as another chance to HYPE THE HECK out of OMD/BND and tell us how HEARTWARMING AND SUCCESSFUL it is...while the numbers continue to drop.

So, MArvel has made it clear over and over to their fans.

They've stated they know better and the customers are wrong. Yay.
They've stated that they don't care what anyone on the internet says.
They've stated if you write a letter that you just support gay marriage.

So, no matter what your opinion is of the reboot, you've gotta admit that marvel doesn't care what theyir customers says, no matter what venue you share it in. Because bottom line is you are wrong, and they are right, and then you're labeled politically. Great strategy there too.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Seriously? Man, the more interviews and quotes i read from Alan Moore, the more i dislike him.

Yeah, Alan moore is quite ignorant when it comes to Romita Sr.'s art. I really don't like that part about him.

 

[Galactus]

Good writers doesn't let their own feelings dictate what direction the story takes. The marriage, for example. It's okay if it's undone because there's something in Peter Parker's character that makes a marriage impossible, not because the people behind the comic doesn't like him being married. Changing the history so it serves the writer/writers purposes is in my opinion cheating and an abomination in the world of creative writing.

 

[kguillou]

^^I totally agree with you bro, i mean, i remember 6 months before OMD dropped Quesada was going on about how the spidey marriage very "controversial". And all the fans were like "what??! controversial? Since when??" The fans never complained about the marriage, all the "controversy" was behind closed doors where the writers had secretly been planning on splitting the two up for years. The writers thought it was controversial not the fans. I don't really understand how marvel was so intent on getting rid of something that the majority of spidey fans enjoyed, isn't it in their best interests to keep the fans happy?

 

[kguillou]

^^I totally agree with you bro, i mean, i remember 6 months before OMD dropped Quesada was going on about how the spidey marriage very "controversial". And all the fans were like "what??! controversial? Since when??" The fans never complained about the marriage, all the "controversy" was behind closed doors where the writers had secretly been planning on splitting the two up for years. The writers thought it was controversial not the fans. I don't really understand how marvel was so intent on getting rid of something that the majority of spidey fans enjoyed, isn't it in their best interests to keep the fans happy?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

^^I totally agree with you bro, i mean, i remember 6 months before OMD dropped Quesada was going on about how the spidey marriage very "controversial". And all the fans were like "what??! controversial? Since when??" The fans never complained about the marriage, all the "controversy" was behind closed doors where the writers had secretly been planning on splitting the two up for years. The writers thought it was controversial not the fans. I don't really understand how marvel was so intent on getting rid of something that the majority of spidey fans enjoyed, isn't it in their best interests to keep the fans happy?

You'd think so, yes. I mean, any successful business owner will tell you keeping the customers happy is top priority.

I guess the majority of comic fans tend to keep reading, no matter what, and Joe knows this.

 

[farmernudie]

I am not impressed by Joe's fake controversies.

No one was complaining. (About marriage)

 

[Miken Ayers]

I am not impressed by Joe's fake controversies.

No one was complaining. (About marriage)

PARODY ALERT PARODY ALERT
Joe Quesada: So we're still up in the air as to whether the fans hate the marriage, but we can all agree that the Holocaust never happened...right?

Marc Guggenheim: How about if anyone drops the book, because of OMD/BND I publicly call them *** lovers? Watch Eli Stone.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Aloha,
One of the nice things about being an OLD guy(fan man) is that you can remember all of the great debates that have happened in the life of Spidey.
1-Ditko left and Romita Sr. took over-fans cried foul for almost two years about the changes. Romita Sr. was accused of turning Spidey into Millie the Model. Alan Moore told him that Spider-Man DIED with Amazing Spider-Man #39( See the latest Marvel Spotlight-Inside Brand New Day)
2-Death of Capt and then Gwen Stacy-some fans never came back after the death of Gwen.
3-Black Costume-some loved it, some HATED it.Lasted for several yers in the life of Spidey.
4-The Marriage of peter and MJ-what started out as a publicity stunt became status quo for Spidey both in comics and comic strip for many years.Some were against it from the start others loved the idea.
5-McFarlane era-some loved him, some HATED him. Lasted for several years in both Amazing and Adjectiveless.
6-Clone Saga-you fill in the blank
7-Death of Aunt May-some thought it was very well done. Romita Sr. reports that killing Aunt May was something that was proposed ever since his days and he fought it every time.
8-Death of Ben reily-Some still want him back in some form or another.
9-End of Volume one(Gathering of Five)-major change to Amazing that lead into
10-Byrne era-v.2-Some hated him
11-JMS-Some loved his first few isssues then love turned to hate
12-OMD-You fill in the blank

My point to this is that in the 46 years of Amazing Spider-Man there has NEVER been a major change to the character that did not produce a backlash among fans.Romita Sr talks about after 2 years on Amazing, there were still people asking him, "When is Ditko coming back?"
Amazing Spider-Man didn't die with #39 nor #545.
I've been around for all the great debates and good Lord willing, I'll be around for many more,WhY? because
SPIDEY RULES

Let's not forget organic webbing, the sidekick suit, new powers & the unmasking.
All changes are going to be met with resistance & controversy, whether they're good or not. Whether they're drastic or minor. I've said a dozen times in a dozen threads, comic fans are notoriously resistant to change. We each came into the fold at different times & embraced the characters for different reasons. And when anything that we love about these characters & storylines is tampered with in any way, we take it as a personal insult. Superman fans wigged out over the many changes that have come his way. There are Batman fans who still can't understand why they've replaced Robin. Mention the Storm/Panther wedding to some people & all hell breaks loose. Wolverine-don't get me started. And don't let them make a change that's influenced by the movies. You'd rather serve pork loin at a mosque. And don't even get me started on the movies. "You can't change this, you can't change that, I won't go see this movie, this movie was terrible because they didn't have this!" If I were a filmmaker I'd probably go insane.
Me-I read comics to be entertained. I can embrace change as long as it's not poorly written, ill-conceived, or detrimental to the story in the long run. I think part of it has to do with the fact that the stories have been around so long. My daughter's mother argued that they should kill off all the long-standing superheroes & replace them with new versions. I wholeheartedly disagree with this, as it's generally the person behind the mask that we're drawn to, & you can't just put anybody in there. That's a slap in the face. A buddy of mine at work suggested that maybe every 10 years or so they should do a "Zero Hour" style continuity reboot. This one I'm not sure about. I criticized DC for over 10 years for doing this as often as they do, & now Marvel's doing the same thing. But Marvel's worse with it, because they do it piecemeal. They've rebooted Spider-Man twice now, while Iron Man & Captain America's histories remain intact. Black Panther's history has also gotten tweaked. And the fans have all cried shenanigans. But we maintain a continuity in which a scientist was caught in a nuclear blast, when we are way past the Atomic Age. Maybe if it was done across the board instead of this hunt & peck B.S., there wouldn't be as much protest. In any event, as long as there are new writers, there will be new ideas. Some will be good, some will be bad. And all will be met with varying degrees of hostility.

 

[Miken Ayers]

Let's not forget organic webbing, the sidekick suit, new powers & the unmasking.
All changes are going to be met with resistance & controversy, whether they're good or not. Whether they're drastic or minor. I've said a dozen times in a dozen threads, comic fans are notoriously resistant to change. We each came into the fold at different times & embraced the characters for different reasons. And when anything that we love about these characters & storylines is tampered with in any way, we take it as a personal insult. Superman fans wigged out over the many changes that have come his way. There are Batman fans who still can't understand why they've replaced Robin. Mention the Storm/Panther wedding to some people & all hell breaks loose. Wolverine-don't get me started. And don't let them make a change that's influenced by the movies. You'd rather serve pork loin at a mosque. And don't even get me started on the movies. "You can't change this, you can't change that, I won't go see this movie, this movie was terrible because they didn't have this!" If I were a filmmaker I'd probably go insane.
Me-I read comics to be entertained. I can embrace change as long as it's not poorly written, ill-conceived, or detrimental to the story in the long run. I think part of it has to do with the fact that the stories have been around so long. My daughter's mother argued that they should kill off all the long-standing superheroes & replace them with new versions. I wholeheartedly disagree with this, as it's generally the person behind the mask that we're drawn to, & you can't just put anybody in there. That's a slap in the face. A buddy of mine at work suggested that maybe every 10 years or so they should do a "Zero Hour" style continuity reboot. This one I'm not sure about. I criticized DC for over 10 years for doing this as often as they do, & now Marvel's doing the same thing. But Marvel's worse with it, because they do it piecemeal. They've rebooted Spider-Man twice now, while Iron Man & Captain America's histories remain intact. Black Panther's history has also gotten tweaked. And the fans have all cried shenanigans. But we maintain a continuity in which a scientist was caught in a nuclear blast, when we are way past the Atomic Age. Maybe if it was done across the board instead of this hunt & peck B.S., there wouldn't be as much protest. In any event, as long as there are new writers, there will be new ideas. Some will be good, some will be bad. And all will be met with varying degrees of hostility.

You know anyone griping about the Iron Spider suit was really wasting their on that one. They said from the beginning on that one the suit wasn't permanent and was only to be a lead in to Spider-Man's involvement in Civil War. Now I admit there's a good chunk of comic readers that aren't happy unless they're miserable, but we're in the better part of a year with this story and the fans that were screaming when this first came about are still screaming. They don't seem like they're gonna quiet down anytime soon either. Present company included.


And in this case there's almost nothing, but hostility. The hostility's so significant that Tom Brevoort and Steve Wacker need to constantly remind us how insignificant it is. It's significant enough that a single spoiler review posted here and Marvel.com led to one of the writers tracking down said poster, and treating what he did as if it was gonna significantly drive down sales. (Although if they wanna place blame on the sales drop of NWTD between parts one and two on me I'll take it ) And the hostility's significant enough that yet another of the "braintrust" uses poorly thought out logic saying if you don't read the book you must back gay marriage. And as far as change goes I don't mind it as long as it goes forward. Making Spider-Man a dirt poor semi slacker that is back to simply taking photos of Spider-Man is anything BUT that. Forget that he's a scientist, and that aspect of him has been underused from the beginning. Give him back the mechanical webshooters so that could be his only achievement, because that's easier than being creative. Although as I've said before BND is what Joe's wanted to do for almost a decade, and he will pull out all stops before he realizes this wad of feces he calls Brand New Day isn't sticking.

 

[Rambo, John J]

Good writers doesn't let their own feelings dictate what direction the story takes. The marriage, for example. It's okay if it's undone because there's something in Peter Parker's character that makes a marriage impossible, not because the people behind the comic doesn't like him being married. Changing the history so it serves the writer/writers purposes is in my opinion cheating and an abomination in the world of creative writing.

Thats an excellent point. I can't count the amount of times I've changed or re-written stories because i've gotten to a point in the story where - for lack of a better way of explaining it - what I had planned for the character isn't what should happen to the character.

And in many cases, that revelation takes me completely by surprise, and even though I don't like it, it is the story.

Stephen King in one of his forewords has a great theory around this - he describes writers as merely archaeologists of stories. The stories themselves are artifacts, they already exist out there in the ether or subconcious or wherever, and the writer is merely the conduit, the excavator, through which the stories are uncovered and told.

A good writer will uncover the story almost in pristine condition with everything happening as it should have happened - as the story dictates - a bad writer will botch things, try and do it the fast or easy way, use the wrong syntax, and in the process, the story will be ruined.

So, to conclude.... er... bravo Galactus!... I concur.

 

[carnageehw]

Good writers doesn't let their own feelings dictate what direction the story takes. The marriage, for example. It's okay if it's undone because there's something in Peter Parker's character that makes a marriage impossible, not because the people behind the comic doesn't like him being married. Changing the history so it serves the writer/writers purposes is in my opinion cheating and an abomination in the world of creative writing.

Great post.

 

[moraldeficiency]

While it's a good listing, some of the controversies are laser specific while others are extremely broad (JMS' run, the clone sage) which contained many controversies and went on for years. It seems like your recollection of the past is very specific (as in a single issue's story) while the recent controversies are over the course of several years.

I mean during the clone saga we had Peter beating his wife, being a clone, having a kid, a new costume with gear, a new peter parker complete with highlights, the death of doc ock....etc, just to give an example.

 

[Cullen]

Seriously? Man, the more interviews and quotes i read from Alan Moore, the more i dislike him.

Yeah, I'm not on board with the Moore quote either, and I liked the Ditko years as well. Strikes me as a jackass comment.

 

[Cullen]

Right. So dont let the door slam you in the ass on the way out.


Actually, no; LET it slam you.

I have to disagree with this statement. He has to stay. After all, he's making me look better by comparison....

 

[shinlyle]

Seriously? Man, the more interviews and quotes i read from Alan Moore, the more i dislike him.

Alan Moore...whatever. He's already declared he hates the Watchmen movie, which isn't even out yet, and he thinks Spider-Man dies after issue #39? He's like that kid in high school who hated everything.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Alan Moore...whatever. He's already declared he hates the Watchmen movie, which isn't even out yet, and he thinks Spider-Man dies after issue #39? He's like that kid in high school who hated everything.

More like that internet poster who hates everything.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Good writers doesn't let their own feelings dictate what direction the story takes. The marriage, for example. It's okay if it's undone because there's something in Peter Parker's character that makes a marriage impossible, not because the people behind the comic doesn't like him being married. Changing the history so it serves the writer/writers purposes is in my opinion cheating and an abomination in the world of creative writing.

And an example of what I meant by detrimental to the story in the long run. Again, changes should only be made when it benefits the story. This seemed so...arbitrary.

 

[Chris Wallace]

You know anyone griping about the Iron Spider suit was really wasting their on that one. They said from the beginning on that one the suit wasn't permanent and was only to be a lead in to Spider-Man's involvement in Civil War. Now I admit there's a good chunk of comic readers that aren't happy unless they're miserable, but we're in the better part of a year with this story and the fans that were screaming when this first came about are still screaming. They don't seem like they're gonna quiet down anytime soon either. Present company included.


And in this case there's almost nothing, but hostility. The hostility's so significant that Tom Brevoort and Steve Wacker need to constantly remind us how insignificant it is. It's significant enough that a single spoiler review posted here and Marvel.com led to one of the writers tracking down said poster, and treating what he did as if it was gonna significantly drive down sales. (Although if they wanna place blame on the sales drop of NWTD between parts one and two on me I'll take it ) And the hostility's significant enough that yet another of the "braintrust" uses poorly thought out logic saying if you don't read the book you must back gay marriage. And as far as change goes I don't mind it as long as it goes forward. Making Spider-Man a dirt poor semi slacker that is back to simply taking photos of Spider-Man is anything BUT that. Forget that he's a scientist, and that aspect of him has been underused from the beginning. Give him back the mechanical webshooters so that could be his only achievement, because that's easier than being creative. Although as I've said before BND is what Joe's wanted to do for almost a decade, and he will pull out all stops before he realizes this wad of feces he calls Brand New Day isn't sticking.

I protested the sidekick suit-NOT because I thought it would last-but because it was just so damn ugly. And in my eyes, it represents a very bad era story-wise. The events that led up to its introduction & the events that followed its introduction were just ridiculous. I will forever associate it with storylines that make the much-maligned Clone Saga look great by comparison.