Superman Returns The KID.....merged threads

[afan]

Because at the start of the film we don't know the kid is Superman's, so it initially appears to both Clark Kent and the cinema audience that Lois has moved on to create a family which has no connection to her past life with the Man of Steel.

However, as we learn later on Lois' hasn't been able to move on from Superman because the child is revealed to actually be his son.

Ahhh, but this review is for the entire film and not just the start. He states that the kid represent's Lois' moving on with her life, while avowing that he as a Superman fan is aware that the child is Superman's..........
At the very least he is contradicting himself.

 

[Venom71]

I have no problem with them having sex, and no problem with them eventually having a child, BUT what I do have a problem with is how Superman would have had to sleep with Lois without telling her who he is, OR they will be keeping some sort of memory loss thing in the story.

This is not some close minded thinking on the subject, these are simply the onlytwo options left if the paint then selves into this corer.

They have already established that in Returns Lois does NOT know Clark is Superman. So either she doesn't remember it, and thus doesn't remember sleeping with Superman, or he slept with her and never told her the truth, what a dick if he did

I can not seem to think of any other way around it. Can anyone else think of a theory?

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity...could happen that way...fixes both problems.

 

[The Caped Knight]

the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity...could happen that way...fixes both problems.

THANK GOD , SUPERMAN II was good. But That Amnesia kiss pissed-me off . I'm glad it's no longer in continuity .

 

[gdw]

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity...could happen that way...fixes both problems.

Um what? I'm a little confused.

You say that they are NOT in continuity, and that fixes both problems? No, keeping them in continuity fixes the problems, but they have already stated that the events are not THAT heavily relied upon from the previous fims.

Only that they HAD a relationship. I can see them having that almost undefined relationship thingy, but unless he told her who he really was, they would not have gotten that far.

Doesn't matter if your Superman or not, you don't get that far in a relationship with the woman you believe is the love of your life without letting her know who you are first.

 

[gdw]

Yeah, that's my point though, that they are not in continuity, so how in the world do they cover this plot hole?

Or is it just that, a gaping plot hole?

 

[afan]

THANK GOD , SUPERMAN II was good. But That Amnesia kiss pissed-me off . I'm glad it's no longer in continuity .

Donner's SII did not include the amnesia kiss. That being said if Singer is exclusively using the vague history of Donner's efforts then the amnesia kiss becomes a moot point.

 

[Venom71]

THANK GOD , SUPERMAN II was good. But That Amnesia kiss pissed-me off . I'm glad it's no longer in continuity .

I don't know if it is..I posted it could be.

 

[Desk]

Ahhh, but this review is for the entire film and not just the start. He states that the kid represent's Lois' moving on with her life, while avowing that he as a Superman fan is aware that the child is Superman's..........
At the very least he is contradicting himself.

When he says "You're almost wishing he is the father" he's recalling the perspective he had while watching the film, before the point the kid is actually revealed to be his son.

It's like me writing an advance review of Spider-Man 2 and saying... "The fans know Mary-Jane discovers Peter's secret. But in the movie it is not bad. The romance is handled so well you're almost wishing she finds out."

Of course, all those who have seen the film know that she does.

 

[gdw]

Donner's SII did not include the amnesia kiss. That being said if Singer is exclusively using the vague history of Donner's efforts then the amnesia kiss becomes a moot point.

I can't wait to see his vision. Also though, Donner's included the destruction of the fortress, but that is not being adhered to in Returns, so we can't think along those lines it seems.

speaking of, how did Donner end it with Lois and superman then?

 

[gdw]

When he says "You're almost wishing he is the father" he's recalling the perspective he had while watching the film, before the point the kid is actually revealed to be his son.

It's like me writing an advance review of Spider-Man 2 and saying... "The fans know Mary-Jane discovers Peter's secret. But in the movie it is not bad. The romance is handled so well you're almost wishing she finds out."

Of course, all those who have seen the film know that she does.

Thanks for clearing that up. I am one who can get into arguing semantics, but when people start doing it in a effort to try and find things they are only wishing are there it drives me nuts.

 

[Desk]

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity....

Says who?

Singer has described this as a "vage sequel" to Superman II - not "a vague sequel to Richard Donner's original plans for Superman II which under replacement director Richard Lester were lost on their transition to the big screen."

I'm not claiming that the amnesia kiss will feature in Singer's film, but unless he's expressly said it won't then I don't see how you can claim otherwise so definitively.

 

[Venom71]

Donner's SII did not include the amnesia kiss. That being said if Singer is exclusively using the vague history of Donner's efforts then the amnesia kiss becomes a moot point.

What about Lois and Superman getting together in the FOS? Was that in Donner's version?

 

[Venom71]

Says who?

Singer has described this as a "vage sequel" to Superman II - not "a vague sequel to Richard Donner's original plans for Superman II which under replacement director Richard Lester were lost on their transition to the big screen."

I'm not claiming that the amnesia kiss will feature in Singer's film, but unless he's expressly said it won't then I don't see how you can claim otherwise so definitively.

I stated in my post it could happen that it is not in continuity...I didn't say for sure it wasn't.

 

[Desk]

I stated in my post it could happen that it is not in continuity...I didn't say for sure it wasn't.

Yes you did. You said...

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity....

There are no "coulds" or "might bes" here - you made a definitive statement of fact.

 

[Venom71]

Um what? I'm a little confused.

You say that they are NOT in continuity, and that fixes both problems? No, keeping them in continuity fixes the problems, but they have already stated that the events are not THAT heavily relied upon from the previous fims.

Only that they HAD a relationship. I can see them having that almost undefined relationship thingy, but unless he told her who he really was, they would not have gotten that far.

Doesn't matter if your Superman or not, you don't get that far in a relationship with the woman you believe is the love of your life without letting her know who you are first.

What I meant was if in this continuity they didn't get together in the FOS..that pretty much means the kid is NOT Superman's and is either Richard's with Lois or from a previous relationship....I don't know which way it is going to work out at this point..but I am looking forward to seeing how it works out.

 

[Venom71]

Yes you did. You said...

There are no "coulds" or "might bes" here - you made a definitive statement of fact.

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity...could happen that way.

 

[Desk]

The FOS scene and the amnesia kiss are no longer in continuity...could happen that way.

My apologies. I took your "could happen that way" comment to refer to one of the possible scenarios described by gdw.

Certainly, kal-el 8 also took it that you were stating the FOS scene and amnesia kiss were no longer part of continuity, because he responded to this by saying...

THANK GOD

 

[afan]

Donner's SII did include the Superman / Lois affair, but the method Lois used to discover the secret identity was much more "Lois-like".
Donner's SII resolved the whole thing with time reversal.

 

[Desk]

Donner's SII did include the Superman / Lois affair, but the method Lois used to discover the secret identity was much more "Lois-like".
Donner's SII resolved the whole thing with time reversal.

Yeah... AGAIN.

It's crazy to think that Donner honestly proposed to resolve the second film with the same time-reversal deus ex machina used in the first.

 

[Tzigone]

Yeah... AGAIN.

It's crazy to think that Donner honestly proposed to resolve the second film with the same time-reversal deus ex machina used in the first.

Originally the second movie had the time-reversal and the first didn't.

 

[afan]

Yeah... AGAIN.

It's crazy to think that Donner honestly proposed to resolve the second film with the same time-reversal deus ex machina used in the first.

It's all here........see for yourself.
http://superman.rossiters.com/dsm_main.html

 

[skruloos]

If they're unable to create dramatic tension without placing Superman in an embarassing and ignominious position then they're clearly not up to the challenge of writing for the character.

Maybe to them and others, the situation is neither embarassing nor ignominious. You have a particular take on the situation. Doesn't mean everyone else shares it.

 

[Venom71]

My apologies. I took your "could happen that way" comment to refer to one of the possible scenarios described by gdw.

Certainly, kal-el 8 also took it that you were stating the FOS scene and amnesia kiss were no longer part of continuity, because he responded to this by saying...

Apology Accepted.

 

[Desk]

Maybe to them and others, the situation is neither embarassing nor ignominious. You have a particular take on the situation. Doesn't mean everyone else shares it.

I find it hard to believe anyone would be jumping for joy and proudly boasting the fact they'd just found out they'd unwittingly fathered an illegitimate child who was now being raised as someone else's son.

Or, at least, I wouldn't think much of the person who did. Would you?

 

[Desk]

It's all here........see for yourself.
http://superman.rossiters.com/dsm_main.html

I've looked through the site but I can't find any details on how Donner planned to end the first film without using the reverse-time gimmick.

Did Lois still die, and if so how was Superman going to save her?