Sequels The Kraven/Sergei Kravinoff Thread

[DACrowe]

But the drama he could add with the Lizard in being someone Spider-Man is protecting from one villain to another and Captain Stacy could get on the case because he sees Spidey protecting the Lizard....Kraven could become obsessed after Spidey humliates him and buries Spider-Man alive, only to take the Spider costume and kill the Lizard himself in it. To prove he is better. But Peter is unburied in time by MJ, who proves she'' stand by Peter through thick and thin (allowing a quick marriage at the end) and Spidey goes to stop Kraven and save Lizard one last time...

The story pratically writes itself.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

But the drama he could add with the Lizard in being someone Spider-Man is protecting from one villain to another and Captain Stacy could get on the case because he sees Spidey protecting the Lizard....Kraven could become obsessed after Spidey humliates him and buries Spider-Man alive, only to take the Spider costume and kill the Lizard himself in it. To prove he is better. But Peter is unburied in time by MJ, who proves she'' stand by Peter through thick and thin (allowing a quick marriage at the end) and Spidey goes to stop Kraven and save Lizard one last time...

The story pratically writes itself.

Yeah, with all the young children that go and see these Spider-Man movies, i think we can pretty much toss that whole "buried alive" thing out the window.

Dont you guys?

 

[Spiderine]

How is the Lizard his only opportunity?

What about Kraven and his brother, Chameleon? They could be used to great effect for the movie.

OK you threw it out there now finish it. What is Chameleon and Kraven going to do in a feature movie? What story is there to tell and don't give me Kraven avenging Chameleon's death.

 

[Spiderine]

Hold on folks, I never said that Kraven shouldn't be done with the Lizard. That is the most obvious way to incorporate him.

What I asked was, how would you portray him in the 21st Century (and pretend you CANNOT use the Lizard, put your thinking caps on!)

So far, only one person has answered the question in the way I had intended.

(No more Lizard talk please. And if suggesting cast, elaborate on why).

If you want to discuss other ways in using Kraven then I have no idea. There is no other good way to use him in my opinion for a movie. So to answer your question I would not even want to see him without Lizard.

 

[November Rain]

a 21st century approach would be a tie in with the lizard, has it be done before in the comics this way?

 

[Mr Jide]

Kraven/Lizard story imo is the only logical way to handle the character in a way that pleases most and still manages to capitalise on making good use of classic villains.

I think its fair to say, the whole, "crocodile in the sewers" myth is well known and can be played upon in sm4. Conners becomes the lizard, Kraven is introduced as some freakishly powerful hunter. Kraven's goal is to capture/kill the lizard, spider-man intervenes...like DACrowe said, the story pretty much writes itself.

Conners' family is introduced on top of conners himself, who by default is already a "sympathetic villain", the potential for this approach is too good an opportunity to pass up.

 

[Mr Jide]

a 21st century approach would be a tie in with the lizard, has it be done before in the comics this way?

Replace vermin with the lizard and the answer is yes... sort of.

 

[November Rain]

the vermin story is different, it's sergei's attempt to show he is superior to spiderman by attempting to take on a task the wallcrawler had failed to take on by himself.

it's quite different from obtaining the ultimate prize of his greatest hunt which starts out as the lizard and then turns into being spiderman.

 

[Mr Jide]

the vermin story is different, it's sergei's attempt to show he is superior to spiderman by attempting to take on a task the wallcrawler had failed to take on by himself.

I know.

it's quite different from obtaining the ultimate prize of his greatest hunt which starts out as the lizard and then turns into being spiderman.

Well, from this angle the answer would be no then, it hasn't happened in the comics.

However, an angle the movie could go for could be, spider-man can't defeat the lizard, I mean come on, its a freakin' man-sized lizard that's stronger than spidey is, furthermore, spidey finds out Conners is the lizard and that makes it even harder to defeat him.

Enter Kraven. He captures or at least somehow subdues the lizard and is about to kill him, spidey intervenes, thus birthing the beef between spidey and kraven. Lizard escapes or what ever, spidey and kraven batter each other, kraven defeats spidey, leaving him in a comatose-like state with the help of potions and whatnot, kraven goes on the hunt to kill lizard, spidey has one of his dreams of inspiration form loved ones, wakes up in a very heroic way and goes off to stop kraven and the lizard.

spidey and kraven fight, lizard ends up killing him and then spidey and lizard fight, obviously spidey somehow managing to win and curing conners or at least has him transform back to conners.

 

[November Rain]

but in that case, kraven has already captured lizard once, what is to gain by going after him again since he already knows he is BETTER than spidey.

 

[Mr Jide]

Yeah but he didn't kill lizard, which is what he wants to do. That's his objective which was thwarted by spider-man initially, so now he has to go after lizard again to get the job done, knowing this time, spider-man is no longer a threatening factor.

 

[November Rain]

that sounds like its taking too many elements of the last hunt and not really getting the point across that Kraven felt his ultimate goal was being better at being spiderman than spiderman was...

being obsessed with a prey (even with that being spidey) and also being obsessed with spiderman are somewhat different things.

one leads to the other via evolutionary thought.

you start of hating him, them admiring him, loathing him and walking in his shoes doing what he does in order to truelly get the satifaction of victory.

Again, having sergei killed is a waste of a character, especially at the hands of a beast, it's not fitting of someone of his calibre, i can't even imagine him being defeated by an animal.

 

[Mr Jide]

that sounds like its taking too many elements of the last hunt and not really getting the point across that Kraven felt his ultimate goal was being better at being spiderman than spiderman was...

It doesn't necessarily have to go the route of kraven trying to be better than spider-man at the things he does. I think the story could still serve well the way it is but should kraven go the route of doing spidey's duties then thats fine and obviously adhere's closer to the comics. Kraven's ultimate goal in the movie doesn't have to be that he's better than spidey but single handedly killing the lizard, who just so happens to be an abnormal beast who also has insane super strength. Kraven could be possesed by a deep sense of honour, pride and achievement in killing the lizard.

Again, having sergei killed is a waste of a character, especially at the hands of a beast, it's not fitting of someone of his calibre, i can't even imagine him being defeated by an animal.

Well, I doubt kraven would be in more than 1 spidey film, so killing him off imo wouldn't come off as a waste. Hell, they killed off ock, they can most certainly kill off kraven. However, the lizard isn't just an animal, remember, he's a primal beast with super-abilities that sets him far above any other living wild animal. These films always adapt and make changes, so its no stretch of the imagination t o assume that the studio may decide to have lizard kill kraven at the end as a sort of "lesson" in irony. Kraven's reason for wanting to kill the lizard wouldn't be because of protecting citizens, hell, I'd have kraven find out that lizard is actually conners, a good man, a father, a husband but have Sergei ignore all that and instead of trying to help a man in need of much help, he wants to kill him solely for a twisted sense of honour and personal glory.

 

[Elisha Cuthbert]

Matt Dillon for Kraven...Also I don't want Lizard to kill Kraven, I think it would be cooler if he killed himself ALA Kraven's Last Hunt.

 

[Mr Jide]

Matt Dillon as Kraven is poor casting and they're not going to have a guy ram a shot gun into his gob and pull the trigger when the mass audience are a bunch of kids.

 

[November Rain]

Well, I doubt kraven would be in more than 1 spidey film, so killing him off imo wouldn't come off as a waste. Hell, they killed off ock, they can most certainly kill off kraven. However, the lizard isn't just an animal, remember, he's a primal beast with super-abilities that sets him far above any other living wild animal. These films always adapt and make changes, so its no stretch of the imagination t o assume that the studio may decide to have lizard kill kraven at the end as a sort of "lesson" in irony. Kraven's reason for wanting to kill the lizard wouldn't be because of protecting citizens, hell, I'd have kraven find out that lizard is actually conners, a good man, a father, a husband but have Sergei ignore all that and instead of trying to help a man in need of much help, he wants to kill him solely for a twisted sense of honour and personal glory.

well having kraven killed does come off as a waste as i think he has at least two potentially good stories to his name. Even if limited to a single film, simply axeing him for simplicity doesn't seem right.

your final thought about sergei finding out about the human side of connors and neglecting it for the sake of the hunt (maybe even capturing him normally and providing a serum to change him just to kill him as a beast).

although i have never been sure whether kraven's hunting was for killing or just for seeing whether he could capture a certain individual. Kraven from the last hunt didn't kill vermin, he only wished to gain capture but maybe that was to allow spidey to fail once more in his attempt to subdue him.

 

[drmick]

If you want to discuss other ways in using Kraven then I have no idea. There is no other good way to use him in my opinion for a movie. So to answer your question I would not even want to see him without Lizard.

Thank you for your honesty.

I think the animal hunter thing can't be done in satisfactory way. American's culture with guns proves that anybody can shoot an animal. So I doubt you can use guns satisfactorily on film to hunt lions or whatever.

You could try Crocodile Hunter/Steve Irwin style where paradoxically Kraven is a conservationist who is likely to come into (bloody?) conflict with hunters and poachers, but who can also tussle with a lion or rhino should they get too frisky.

I still think though that that would be too cartoony.

What I was thinking is more that Kraven is a renowned assassin/mercenary who Intelligence services the world over either hire or are trying to catch for big name assassination attempts. He could have ties with the Middle East, or Eastern Europe terrorist organisations.

Just think of somebody like Bruce Willis' Jackal from the Jackal. Or on a suggestion which is also a casting suggestion Karl Urban's character from the Bourne Supremacy.

This assassin/agent Kraven could also hunt big game as a hobby, but it certainly isn't his raison d'etre.

 

[Mr Jide]

well having kraven killed does come off as a waste as i think he has at least two potentially good stories to his name. Even if limited to a single film, simply axeing him for simplicity doesn't seem right.

your final thought about sergei finding out about the human side of connors and neglecting it for the sake of the hunt (maybe even capturing him normally and providing a serum to change him just to kill him as a beast).

although i have never been sure whether kraven's hunting was for killing or just for seeing whether he could capture a certain individual. Kraven from the last hunt didn't kill vermin, he only wished to gain capture but maybe that was to allow spidey to fail once more in his attempt to subdue him.

I'm just saying the things I'm saying from a potential point of view the movie makers may use. These sort of changes and alterations are expected. Kraven's motivation to capture as in the comics could easily be changed to simply kill from a stand point of movie making.

 

[Abe Rush]

Most of you probably won't agree with me, but I feel as though Kraven the Hunter is too much of a "one trick poney". Like some of you have mentionned, it is hard to see him on film if it's not with The Lizard and this being because of the Kraven's Last Hunt storyline. Speaking of this story... to be quite honest, I am not interested in seing anything that's been done in Spider-Man comics simply being "copied&pasted" to the big screen and I feel as if Kraven the Hunter's character could only be done through that.

I want the movies to be happening in the same world as in the comics, staying true to the characters and their roles, but I don't want them to choose specific stories and make them into the next movies. For example, it's like all those people that want The Dark Knight to be like The Long Halloween or The Killing Joke... I say NO! I want the creators to stay true to the characters but showcase them in something new, something fresh and original.

Sorry, guess I'm getting off topic...

 

[Go Web Go!]

Manny Puig for Kraven!!

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

You make Kraven more subdued, and, well, not a supervillain.

You could go the route of him being a TV star, a la the Ultimate storyline. His show would be called Kraven the Hunter (and he would go by his real name Sergei Kravinoff, for the most part, but the public would know him largely as "Kraven the Hunter"), and on the show he goes toe-to-toe with the most dangerous animals in the world. Taking down an entire elephant with nothing but a knife, for example. This would obviously involve killing endangered species, but I suppose you could briefly explain that, with all the money that the show brings in, no one with any clout is willing to tell him no.

In any case, the Lizard emerges, and is, needless to say, extremely dangerous. He's wandering New York, killing those who try to stop him, and the city is afraid. Spider-Man is obviously very careful about how he approaches the situation, since he knows its Dr. Connors. Kraven jumps at the opprotunity, and as a publicity stunt, he calls out Spidey for not taking down the Lizard (turning most of New York against him), and garauntees that he can and will hunt down and kill the Lizard.

The rest would be pretty self-explanatory.

Thoughts?

 

[drmick]

You make Kraven more subdued, and, well, not a supervillain.

You could go the route of him being a TV star, a la the Ultimate storyline. His show would be called Kraven the Hunter (and he would go by his real name Sergei Kravinoff, for the most part, but the public would know him largely as "Kraven the Hunter"), and on the show he goes toe-to-toe with the most dangerous animals in the world. Taking down an entire elephant with nothing but a knife, for example. This would obviously involve killing endangered species, but I suppose you could briefly explain that, with all the money that the show brings in, no one with any clout is willing to tell him no.

In any case, the Lizard emerges, and is, needless to say, extremely dangerous. He's wandering New York, killing those who try to stop him, and the city is afraid. Spider-Man is obviously very careful about how he approaches the situation, since he knows its Dr. Connors. Kraven jumps at the opprotunity, and as a publicity stunt, he calls out Spidey for not taking down the Lizard (turning most of New York against him), and garauntees that he can and will hunt down and kill the Lizard.

The rest would be pretty self-explanatory.

Thoughts?

Certainly original, but somehow I kept picturing Kenneth Brannagh's character from Harry Potter 2......

 

[TLH]

It's gotta be Oded Fehr

Spider-Man villians seem to be played by incredibly talented and underrated actors (Dafoe, Molina, Church...hell even Grace). Fehr, in my mind, is in the same league. He would deliver one hell of a performance and knock everybody flat.

 

[November Rain]

Most of you probably won't agree with me, but I feel as though Kraven the Hunter is too much of a "one trick poney". Like some of you have mentionned, it is hard to see him on film if it's not with The Lizard and this being because of the Kraven's Last Hunt storyline. Speaking of this story... to be quite honest, I am not interested in seing anything that's been done in Spider-Man comics simply being "copied&pasted" to the big screen and I feel as if Kraven the Hunter's character could only be done through that.

I want the movies to be happening in the same world as in the comics, staying true to the characters and their roles, but I don't want them to choose specific stories and make them into the next movies. For example, it's like all those people that want The Dark Knight to be like The Long Halloween or The Killing Joke... I say NO! I want the creators to stay true to the characters but showcase them in something new, something fresh and original.

Sorry, guess I'm getting off topic...

venom's a bit of a one trick pony and they put him in a film...

they didn't even let him finish off his trick...

spidey's got some of the most repetitive rogue's gallery motivation one could ever imagine.

 

[GothamProtector]

It's gotta be Oded Fehr

Spider-Man villians seem to be played by incredibly talented and underrated actors (Dafoe, Molina, Church...hell even Grace). Fehr, in my mind, is in the same league. He would deliver one hell of a performance and knock everybody flat.

I was almost going to bring him up, but you beat me to it Oded is perfect for Kraven. His acting and voice would fit the role as well. That picture almost looks as if he's already in the Kraven costume! Even though I know it's from The Mummy films.