The Last of Us The Last Of Us 2

[Link]

I wouldn't describe it as a storytelling misfire. It also received a bunch of glowing praise. Business-wise it was probably a mistake to put out something so divisive, but like a lot of divisive stuff I doubt ND anticipated the reaction they got. The level of it at least.

sigh. I always seem to end up liking these fanbase-splintering events

I love the game and wouldn't change a damn thing. The only "issue" with the writing that I can fathom, is that it's aiming too high for what the AAA gaming industry is. The first game was already very well-written and fairly unconventional in the gaming space. The ending, which pretty much made the first game for me, was somewhat controversial and isn't universally loved. I was shocked! I thought it was exceptional and unlike anything I had ever seen in the gaming space. The second game doubles down on everything that made the first game controversial and unconventional. The narrative choices, the pacing, the set of characters, the set of events, everything about it is attempting to elevate what video game storytelling had largely been up to that point. The level of vitriol directed at the game was unfortunate, but not completely unexpected. The Last of Us Part II is as arthouse as AAA video games had ever been up to 2020 and the audience wasn't ready for it. Luckily the reviews were stellar and ultimately the game got a ton of intense love, but the hatred is hard to forget. Unfortunately, a hefty portion of gamers are bigots and that was made very clear in the aftermath. I used to watch Angry Joe before the game, but after he was essentially reduced to a child ranting about the game and revealing what a huge transphobe he was, I never went back. I think I must have blocked a thousand people on Twitter back then, just because of the bigotry present in every comment section regarding the game. The leaks made the situation a lot worse because a ton of (unfounded) rumors started festering on largely right-wing spaces and they got loud enough that a good portion of gamers went in with preconceived notions and no intention of giving the game a chance. A lot of people had genuine issues with the game (as people do with any project that isn't to their liking), but I wish there had been more of that and less ranting, bigotry, and bad-faith arguments.

I will never forget how I felt after finishing TLOU Part II. Exhausted, amazed, completely beaten down. I've never felt anything like that after finishing a video game, just for the strength of the storytelling alone. It felt as if I had seen an arthouse film for the first time after a lifetime of blockbusters. I felt that for weeks, for months. The next game I played was Ghost of Tsushima, which I enjoyed tremendously, but I couldn't help but think what a disappointment it was to go back to regular video game writing, after such a revelation. It's a cool game, with a perfectly fine, trite, cliched, and entirely safe storyline that couldn't possibly offend anyone. That's what most big-budget games are and it's a little bit hurtful that there never might be another Part II.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I wouldn't describe it as a storytelling misfire. It also received a bunch of glowing praise. Business-wise it was probably a mistake to put out something so divisive, but like a lot of divisive stuff I doubt ND anticipated the reaction they got. The level of it at least.

sigh. I always seem to end up liking these fanbase-splintering events

to each their own; I personally never even liked Joel or Eli that much and I didn't play tlou2 for my own reasons but I am just playing devil's advocate to say that ND's decision to bring about a character death with such shock value definitely did not garner the reaction they were anticipating.

I love the game and wouldn't change a damn thing. The only "issue" with the writing that I can fathom, is that it's aiming too high for what the AAA gaming industry is. The first game was already very well-written and fairly unconventional in the gaming space. The ending, which pretty much made the first game for me, was somewhat controversial and isn't universally loved. I was shocked! I thought it was exceptional and unlike anything I had ever seen in the gaming space. The second game doubles down on everything that made the first game controversial and unconventional. The narrative choices, the pacing, the set of characters, the set of events, everything about it is attempting to elevate what video game storytelling had largely been up to that point. The level of vitriol directed at the game was unfortunate, but not completely unexpected. The Last of Us Part II is as arthouse as AAA video games had ever been up to 2020 and the audience wasn't ready for it. Luckily the reviews were stellar and ultimately the game got a ton of intense love, but the hatred is hard to forget. Unfortunately, a hefty portion of gamers are bigots and that was made very clear in the aftermath. I used to watch Angry Joe before the game, but after he was essentially reduced to a child ranting about the game and revealing what a huge transphobe he was, I never went back. I think I must have blocked a thousand people on Twitter back then, just because of the bigotry present in every comment section regarding the game. The leaks made the situation a lot worse because a ton of (unfounded) rumors started festering on largely right-wing spaces and they got loud enough that a good portion of gamers went in with preconceived notions and no intention of giving the game a chance. A lot of people had genuine issues with the game (as people do with any project that isn't to their liking), but I wish there had been more of that and less ranting, bigotry, and bad-faith arguments.

I will never forget how I felt after finishing TLOU Part II. Exhausted, amazed, completely beaten down. I've never felt anything like that after finishing a video game, just for the strength of the storytelling alone. It felt as if I had seen an arthouse film for the first time after a lifetime of blockbusters. I felt that for weeks, for months. The next game I played was Ghost of Tsushima, which I enjoyed tremendously, but I couldn't help but think what a disappointment it was to go back to regular video game writing, after such a revelation. It's a cool game, with a perfectly fine, trite, cliched, and entirely safe storyline that couldn't possibly offend anyone. That's what most big-budget games are and it's a little bit hurtful that there never might be another Part II.

wait a minute, there was a bigotry of transphobia around tlou2 as well? I thought the intense hatred came from hardcore fans just because of how Joel got killed. what was the other stigma behind the game?

 

[Link]

Wait a minute, there was a bigotry of transphobia around tlou2 as well? I thought the intense hatred came from hardcore fans just because of how Joel got killed. what was the other stigma behind the game?

It got ugly really quickly. When the leaks happened, a common theory was that Abby was trans, based on her muscular physique. Imagine how gamers reacted when a popular character, a straight white cis man was murdered by a "trans" character, delivered as a leak with no context. Even game journalists got into it, including the aforementioned Angry Joe. Slurs and everything. Another right-wing lead (fake) rumor was that the enemies in the game would be conservative Christians and that the game would be notably against religion.

There did end up being a trans character in the game (not Abby) and these people were unhappy about that as well.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It got ugly really quickly. When the leaks happened, a common theory was that Abby was trans, based on her muscular physique. Imagine how gamers reacted when a popular character, a straight white man was murdered by a "trans" character, delivered as a leak with no context. Even game journalists got into it, including the aforementioned Angry Joe. Slurs and everything. Another right-wing lead (fake) rumor was that the enemies in the game would be conservative Christians and that the game would be notably against religion.

There did end up being a trans character in the game (not Abby) and these people were unhappy about that as well.

ohhhhhh, man. yeah if there was a certain group within the tlou community who were just being bigoted because of who they thought were trans (and someone who did end up being trans) then their criticisms lose merit. I just don't think they speak for the whole portion of the community who found the events in the plot of the second game distasteful.

as for Angry Joe, I do know that his review of tlou2 is what caused his news coverage to be banned from Reset Era as well. I never understood why but if he was being bigoted in his review, then that would explain it. I haven't seen his full review of it so I can't recall.

 

[Link]

ohhhhhh, man. yeah if there was a certain group within the tlou community who were just being bigoted because of who they thought were trans (and someone who did end up being trans) then their criticisms lose merit. I just don't think they speak for the whole portion of the community who found the events in the plot of the second game distasteful.

as for Angry Joe, I do know that his review of tlou2 is what caused his news coverage to be banned from Reset Era as well. I never understood why but if he was being bigoted in his review, then that would explain. I haven't seen his full review of it so I can't recall.

I haven't seen his review either, interesting to hear that it was so bad that he was banned from Reset Era. I doubt he used slurs in the actual review, those were in a video discussing the leaks, months before the game was released. He's had several other controversies (including more transphobia), so in hindsight, I'm glad I stopped watching a good while ago.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I haven't seen his review either, interesting to hear that it was so bad that he was banned from Reset Era. I doubt he used slurs in the actual review, those were in a video discussing the leaks, months before the game was released. He's had several other controversies (including more transphobia), so in hindsight, I'm glad I stopped watching a good while ago.

I always knew Joe was rambunctious and maybe even immature, but I didn't know he's transphobic.

 

[Bobber]

even if that was ND's intention, it still ended up being a misfire in storytelling on their part given the initial reception. as for the TV show, iirc, I think I read somewhere that the second game is gonna get split up into two seasons so maybe they will start off by giving more of a backstory to Abby. or just a generally different vision overall.

Just because some people don't like it, doesn't make it a misfire.
The story they wanted to tell demanded a strong reaction from the audience, and they most certainly got that. That some people were so angry that they couldn't come around to the rest of the game, whilst absolutely ridiculous to me, is just what happens when you take risks sometimes.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Just because some people don't like it, doesn't make it a misfire.

I don't have a dog in this race either way but just continuing to play devil's advocate: this is all subjective. If a significant portion of the fan base (not the toxic ones, but those who are genuine and just love the characters in this universe) then from their perspective it absolutely does make it a misfire. Their opinions are just as valid as those who aren't bothered by it/appreciate it for what it meant in the ongoing narrative.

The story they wanted to tell demanded a strong reaction from the audience, and they most certainly got that.

They got that but as I said earlier, I absolutely do not think they wanted the response to be so divisive that people just end up not even enjoying the series like they did before. Tlou1 is unanimously held up in a high pedestal, one that is so high that it's considered one of the best games of all time but the second game does not share that feat.

That some people were so angry that they couldn't come around to the rest of the game, whilst absolutely ridiculous to me, is just what happens when you take risks sometimes.

Game of thrones is very well known for taking these kinds of "risks" and up until the final season, consensus wise it was consistently one of the top rated shows on television. It comes down to the execution.

Again, I myself haven't played it, but for the people who have played it, if Naughty Dog didn't win them over, then they have a right to be upset about it.

 

[Bobber]

I don't have a dog in this race either way but just continuing to play devil's advocate: this is all subjective. If a significant portion of the fan base (not the toxic ones, but those who are genuine and just love the characters in this universe) then from their perspective it absolutely does make it a misfire. Their opinions are just as valid as those who aren't bothered by it/appreciate it for what it meant in the ongoing narrative.

They got that but as I said earlier, I absolutely do not think they wanted the response to be so divisive that people just end up not even enjoying the series like they did before. Tlou1 is unanimously held up in a high pedestal, one that is so high that it's considered one of the best games of all time but the second game does not share that feat.

Game of thrones is very well known for taking these kinds of "risks" and up until the final season, consensus wise it was consistently one of the top rated shows on television. It comes down to the execution.

Again, I myself haven't played it, but for the people who have played it, if Naughty Dog didn't win them over, then they have a right to be upset about it.

Sure, I guess everyone's opinion is valid, but the game was a huge critical success, and a huge financial success. It won an absolute ton of awards. A huge amount of people did enjoy/like/love this game.

Did Naughty Dog want/expect the absolute vitriol that this created? Of course not. They didn't want people sending them and the actors death threats. But I think they knew they risked alienating some people with what they set out to do, and were absolutely fine doing that.

It's ironic that a game that is supposed to challenge the player to reflect over their own feelings of hatred, created so much absolute blind hatred.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sure, I guess everyone's opinion is valid, but the game was a huge critical success, and a huge financial success. It won an absolute ton of awards. A huge amount of people did enjoy/like/love this game.

Everything I heard about this game by its presentation is something that lived up to its predecessor so I'm sure it deserved the praise that it got - to an extent. Mass Effect 3 also received critical acclaim with strong sales but I along with millions of others absolutely hate (the ending of) that game and Bioware's reputation has never really recovered since.

Did Naughty Dog want/expect the absolute vitriol that this created? Of course not. They didn't want people sending them and the actors death threats. But I think they knew they risked alienating some people with what they set out to do, and were absolutely fine doing that.

It is absolutely baffling to me how these zealots of fans are so obsessed with their favorite piece of media that they can't tell the difference between an actor and a character. I used Game of thrones as an example earlier - Jack Gleason who played one of the villains on that show received death threats as well just because of how well he portrayed his character.

It's ironic that a game that is supposed to challenge the player to reflect over their own feelings of hatred, created so much absolute blind hatred.

It's all still just a fictional tale and if the fans feel emotionally attached to the characters, then that's how you know they're telling a compelling story. If players end up hating the game because of how the writers decided to challenge them to reflect their own feelings then perhaps they didn't execute it in the best way for a significant amount of them.

 

[Bobber]

Everything I heard about this game by its presentation is something that lived up to its predecessor so I'm sure it deserved the praise that it got - to an extent. Mass Effect 3 also received critical acclaim with strong sales but I along with millions of others absolutely hate (the ending of) that game and Bioware's reputation has never really recovered since.

It is absolutely baffling to me how these zealots of fans are so obsessed with their favorite piece of media that they can't tell the difference between an actor and a character. I used Game of thrones as an example earlier - Jack Gleason who played one of the villains on that show received death threats as well just because of how well he portrayed his character.

It's all still just fictional tale and if the fans feel emotionally attached to the characters, then that's how you know they're telling a compelling story. If players end up hating the game because of how the writers decided to challenge them to reflect their own feelings then perhaps they didn't execute it in the best way for a significant amount of them.

Maybe they didn't execute it in the best way for a significant amount of them. I consider it the absolute pinnacle of videogame storytelling, and it's the most emotional and brilliant experience I've ever had playing a videogame. I understand that a lot of people didn't like it, but I also know that a lot of people absolutely loved it. So branding it a misfire, just because some people didn't like it, just doesn't ring true to me at all.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Maybe they didn't execute it in the best way for a significant amount of them. I consider it the absolute pinnacle of videogame storytelling, and it's the most emotional and brilliant experience I've ever had playing a videogame. I understand that a lot of people didn't like it, but I also know that a lot of people absolutely loved it. So branding it a misfire, just because some people didn't like it, just doesn't ring true to me at all.

What I'm trying to say is that because of how it wasn't unanimously well received, it can be classified as a misfire by those were hardcore fans before the second game released. The first game's ending had a little controversy of its own, but still across the board practically everyone was in agreement of how well executed and compelling the full complete story was.

 

[theastsunnn]

If I buy the disc version for ps4 will I be able to then upgrade it to the ps5?

 

[Teelie]

Digitally, yes. It would still require the disc though. I think the upgrade cost is $5.

 

[theastsunnn]

Digitally, yes. It would still require the disc though. I think the upgrade cost is $5.

Ok do if I go to GameStop and buy part 2 for 20 bucks I can get the ps5 upgrade for 5? See p pretty much get the ps5 version instead of spending 50 for ps5

 

[theastsunnn]

To me Ellie looks nothing like her model in the first game. Yes, she’s older but like what 5 years? She looks like a different person.