The NEW 2014/2015 NBA Thread: Warriors Win the War

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]488319[/split]

 

[Immortalfire]

New year. New season. New thread.

 

[mkilban2]

I'm not writing them off either, I mean, most of the season all I've heard was how unnecessary Love seemed. The question if they should even offer him a contract or find a cheaper alternative has been the narrative for quite awhile too.

Now all of a sudden, he's the reason the Cavs can't beat an inconsistent Bulls, or an unproven Hawks/Wizards team? No, this comes down to who it's always come down to from the beginning, and that's Kyrie Irving. If he can remain consistent and play smart, it won't be easy, but it certainly should be possible, for Cleveland to get out of the East.

Speaking from watching the vast majority of the Cavs games a lot of the Love coverage was way overblown. He does fit well on the team in the role they needed him im to find success and he was still coming into that role to be honest but seemed to be on board.

I dont know if the Cavs should resign him or not though, if he wants to leave and make the most money and a larger star role somewhere else then I have no problem, I'd rather him stay but this is a business.

If he does choose to leave I'm sure the Cavs won't have much of a problem replacing him although I dont know what the free agency market looks like going into next year. (Is Aldridge a FA? He'd be great lmao)

As for Kyrie, he's been playing consistent and spectacularly for the entire season, I dont see him being as much of a concern as he may have been thought to be coming into this year. He and LeBron work very well together, and when they're both clicking most teams dont stand a chance. The biggest thing to me is now someone or someones need to fill in that role of the "big third" we now are missing.

We'll certainly see how that unfolds this coming weekend.

 

[SolarTiger]

DeAndre is such an idiot. I can't believe he did that.

 

[SolarTiger]

Blake 10-25 from the field. DeAndre missed 9 free throws. And wiped away the game winning basket. Yet some of y'all will blame CP3.

 

[Doc Samson]

No, not some, me. "Point God" sleepwalked through the first 3 quarters. Dude was 3/10 until almost the 4th qtr. When he's aggressive and engaged and hitting his shots, the team is better, it's as simple as that. Until he can do that consistently, they're not going to win.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nice tech from CP3. I love watching the Clips fail.

 

[mkilban2]

Tim Duncan: Living Legend.

 

[Immortalfire]

Tim is forever.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Timmay is like Kareem in his later years. It is astounding.

 

[mkilban2]

I wouldn't hesitate to call him the greatest player of my generation. I'm 24, so wasn't really old enough to appreciate MJs greatness, Lebron/Durant/etc. still have a lot of game left, and he's greater than Kobe in my eyes just based on longevity, health, and all around good-guy-ness.

I'm sure there's other players that can be argued, Shaq comes to mind as a possibility, but Timmy is truly one of the greatest to ever play and I'm happy I'm now at an age where I can really appreciate it. And I'm the farthest thing from any kind of Spurs fan, I still hate them from 07 haha.

 

[Doc Samson]

I wouldn't hesitate to call him the greatest player of my generation. I'm 24, so wasn't really old enough to appreciate MJs greatness, Lebron/Durant/etc. still have a lot of game left, and he's greater than Kobe in my eyes just based on longevity, health, and all around good-guy-ness.

I'm sure there's other players that can be argued, Shaq comes to mind as a possibility, but Timmy is truly one of the greatest to ever play and I'm happy I'm now at an age where I can really appreciate it. And I'm the farthest thing from any kind of Spurs fan, I still hate them from 07 haha.

SMH...

Anyhow, only thing I'll say to this (while not derailing this thread completely with what I was going to say), is there was a time period from around '08-'11 when he looked legitimately done. He could barely stay healthy, couldn't play many minutes, and wasn't contributing when needed the most.

Now he has the luxury of Leonard, who by all accounts is the star of the team and has been for the past few seasons. So Tim can put it in neutral for long stretches and be fresh for when it counts. Not to mention three fellow HOF teammates who've helped stabilize and retool time and again. And of course Pop. Someone like say KG never had those luxuries, and had a worse career because of it. IMO, as I've said time and again, there's nothing skill-wise that Duncan does significantly better than Garnett. There are some things a prime Garnett could do that Duncan couldn't however, and in that regard I've always felt he was a better player, just on bad teams.

 

[Warhammer]

If somebody were to ask me who is the greatest player in the NBA since Jordan's last championship as of April 29th, 2015, the answer is Tim Duncan. And it isn't just because of his rings. Look at his gameplay. Look at his numbers.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Duncan is the greatest since Jordan. Only Shaq was better in early 00's (He was GOD mode in 3 peat) but it didn't last long and he is from former generation anyway.

Garnett wasn't as good as Duncan in most important parts of the game. He was more versatile (probably most versatile player in NBA history) but that doesn't make him better at what some of the most important things in basketball Duncan does at goat level.

Duncan in prime was goat level post player & rim/painted area protector. Also he was elite at most of the other things centers/powerforward should do.

Garnett was a better ball handler, versatile defender, had more range shooting and more athletic.

Real debate which one is better player? Shaq or Duncan? Not Garnett, Kobe or whoever..

Accomplishment wise it's clearly Duncan. But anyone who watched NBA in early 00's having Shaq on your team was almost equal to cheating.

 

[Mister J]

Billy Donovan getting closer and closer to the OKC vacancy.

I don't get it. Good college coach, but it's a different dynamic in the NBA. Bringing in someone with only collegiate experience in Durant's opt-out year (with Westbrook's the following season)?

 

[mkilban2]

SMH...

Why shake your head at my "all around good guyness" comment? i absolutely believe a player's overall legacy can be either enhanced or demeaned due to whether they were a good person or not..

Sure Kobe had 81, but he's also a *****e teammate and has a rape case. So yeah, I'll take Duncan over him all things considered haha. Plus Duncan is *still* doing it, stats, playoffs, titles and all, Kobe or Garrett haven't been relevant in like 3+ years.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

For the majority of their careers, when with comparable teams, Kobe out did Timmay. If we are talking since Jordan, I'd go:

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Shaq
4. Timmay

Shaq had the potential to be the best, but he wasted it imo. Kobe is my all time favorite, but no one other then Wilt could effect a game the way Lebron does. Lebron has won 60 plus games with bad teams.

 

[Doc Samson]

Sigh...so much craziness, so little time:

If somebody were to ask me who is the greatest player in the NBA since Jordan's last championship as of April 29th, 2015, the answer is Tim Duncan. And it isn't just because of his rings. Look at his gameplay. Look at his numbers.

Yeah, look at them. They're not vastly different from Garnett's.

Duncan is the greatest since Jordan. Only Shaq was better in early 00's (He was GOD mode in 3 peat) but it didn't last long and he is from former generation anyway.

Garnett wasn't as good as Duncan in most important parts of the game. He was more versatile (probably most versatile player in NBA history) but that doesn't make him better at what some of the most important things in basketball Duncan does at goat level.

Duncan in prime was goat level post player & rim/painted area protector. Also he was elite at most of the other things centers/powerforward should do.

Garnett was a better ball handler, versatile defender, had more range shooting and more athletic.

Real debate which one is better player? Shaq or Duncan? Not Garnett, Kobe or whoever..

Accomplishment wise it's clearly Duncan. But anyone who watched NBA in early 00's having Shaq on your team was almost equal to cheating.

Look man, if defense is a primary criteria, which it should be, than Shaq is automatically disqualified from this conversation. He was the most unstoppable, imposing force in the league, yet he never lead the league in rebounding once. Never lead the league in blocks. Never was DPOY. I don't think he was ever on the All-Defensive First team one time either. Because all those things take effort, something he wasn't really about on that end of the floor.

On top of that, since we're talking about Tim Duncan, the Spurs weren't dominated in the playoffs by Shaq, it was that other guy. Speaking of which...

Besides everyone hating his personality, the number one criticism I've heard about Kobe was that he was "just a sidekick" for those 3 rings. Which, ad nauseam, I've disputed. Because it's simply incorrect. You don't average virtually the same amount of points if that's the case, and you don't guard the opposing teams best player, which almost always wasn't a Center. Especially in the Finals. But ok.

The main point is, that same criticism could (and should) be lobbied at Tim Duncan then. Two of his 5 rings he wasn't the Finals MVP either. He hasn't been their main offensive focal point in at least 5 years, if not longer. He's played with 3 HOFs and possibly 4 depending on how Leonard's career goes. He's had the same HOF coach his whole career. But instead of being criticized for it, or it being used as an arguing point as to why he's not the best of his generation, he's exalted for being the ultimate "team player," so which is it? Why is it any different? I'm not saying any of it is bad, but it definitely shouldn't be selectively bad based on how much you like someone's personality.

Abdul-Jabbar, who is arguably the best at his position All-Time, and possibly the GOAT too, if we want to be technical, can't even escape those critiques. He has the numbers & accolades, and still gets the same criticism about how much Magic Johnson was responsible for. Then again, he also had that pesky attitude problem which made him not so warm & cuddly. Speaking of which...

Why shake your head at my "all around good guyness" comment? i absolutely believe a player's overall legacy can be either enhanced or demeaned due to whether they were a good person or not..

Sure Kobe had 81, but he's also a *****e teammate and has a rape case. So yeah, I'll take Duncan over him all things considered haha. Plus Duncan is *still* doing it, stats, playoffs, titles and all, Kobe or Garrett haven't been relevant in like 3+ years.

Lol, very astute. But that's my main issue, too much is made of personality when we're ranking players. If Duncan was a "*****e" then you guys would probably go over a cliff and say Vince Carter was the best of the generation or something crazy like that. By the way, Duncan was irrelevant himself not too long ago, when he was hobbling around during the time KG & Kobe were winning titles from '08-'10, so it's all the same. KG and Kobe have done their fair share of ignorance, but when comparing players, they're certainly just as good as Tim Duncan on the court. And IMO, better.

 

[Warhammer]

Well, I never discounted Garnett now did I?

 

[Mister J]

Kevin Love officially out 4-6 months following shoulder surgery.

 

[mkilban2]

kevin love officially out 4-6 months following shoulder surgery.

 

[mkilban2]

Funny thing I saw on Twitter. It said, "Settle down Cavs fans. No one deserves this." along with this picture:

sorry some are so small, just squint a little lol.

 

[Hound55]

Sigh...so much craziness, so little time:

I know. Yet somehow you still managed to squeeze all your craziness in that small period of time...

Look man, if defense is a primary criteria, which it should be, than Shaq is automatically disqualified from this conversation. He was the most unstoppable, imposing force in the league, yet he never lead the league in rebounding once. Never lead the league in blocks. Never was DPOY. I don't think he was ever on the All-Defensive First team one time either. Because all those things take effort, something he wasn't really about on that end of the floor.

...or perhaps because Shaquille O'Neal happened to play in the toughest era for centers by far. Those same things you're saying... would've applied to Patrick Ewing too. And Ewing plays a decade earlier or a decade later (hell 5 years either way would have been enough) and that changes pretty quick. Not much space between Hakeem, Robinson, Dikembe and Zo. Effort had nothing to do with it.

He was still defensively great on the block and from the weak side, if not elite in his ridiculously strong generation.

On top of that, since we're talking about Tim Duncan, the Spurs weren't dominated in the playoffs by Shaq, it was that other guy. Speaking of which...

No. But Duncan was getting beaten comfortably, which was huge in those series' because he was a guy who didn't allow that.

Besides everyone hating his personality, the number one criticism I've heard about Kobe was that he was "just a sidekick" for those 3 rings. Which, ad nauseam, I've disputed.

You have. Wrongly.

Because it's simply incorrect.

No. It's not.

You don't average virtually the same amount of points if that's the case, and you don't guard the opposing teams best player, which almost always wasn't a Center. Especially in the Finals. But ok.

You do if you're a ridiculous stat-****e with a highly questionable shot-selection and even worse conscience.

And your second statement is particularly funny. You're talking about the Spurs and you say that. How many times has Kobe's cover in Spurs games been Bruce Bowen - possibly the most one dimensional offensive player in NBA history - and how many of those games has Bowen gone off for more than his regular average?

And nice cherry picking with the "Especially in the Finals" centers loaded the West because teams needed one to hope to be competitive with Shaq (and the myriad of big name centers other teams had to compete with Shaq)...

The main point is, that same criticism could (and should) be lobbied at Tim Duncan then. Two of his 5 rings he wasn't the Finals MVP either.

And three of them were... deservedly too.

He hasn't been their main offensive focal point in at least 5 years, if not longer.

This one's actually true.

He's played with 3 HOFs and possibly 4 depending on how Leonard's career goes. He's had the same HOF coach his whole career.

All of them doing their best to stick around too... almost like he's not a complete scumbag and certain people recognize that their greatest chance of success is to stick around... huh... strange.

But instead of being criticized for it,

Why would they?

or it being used as an arguing point as to why he's not the best of his generation,

Why would they... he didn't have his team underacheive during these periods or screw them out of a Finals series because he'd rather lose as the man than win in a role.

he's exalted for being the ultimate "team player," so which is it? Why is it any different?

Because he does whatever he can to ensure his team is successful and will take whatever personal hit necessary, either in the bank account or woth shots. Again... the never having those teams underacheive, or look like they werr going to fail to make the playoffs until he went down hurt and the guys he couldn't get there playing better without him.

I'm not saying any of it is bad, but it definitely shouldn't be selectively bad based on how much you like someone's personality.

Agreed.

Abdul-Jabbar, who is arguably the best at his position All-Time, and possibly the GOAT too, if we want to be technical, can't even escape those critiques. He has the numbers & accolades, and still gets the same criticism about how much Magic Johnson was responsible for.

Only by fools and ********s who are solely looking at the very tail end of his career in isolation. What keeps him from being the GOAT is that there was a guy who played before him in Wilt who was clearly better, even when playing at a time when the position was considerably deeper. Kareem played at possibly the weakest time for the position (and absolutely dominated, it must be said) until the center position dried up and the arm bar rule changes of the present day.

Then again, he also had that pesky attitude problem which made him not so warm & cuddly. Speaking of which...

Nothing to do with it. At all.

Lol, very astute. But that's my main issue, too much is made of personality when we're ranking players. If Duncan was a "*****e" then you guys would probably go over a cliff and say Vince Carter was the best of the generation or something crazy like that. By the way, Duncan was irrelevant himself not too long ago, when he was hobbling around during the time KG & Kobe were winning titles from '08-'10, so it's all the same.

No, he was still legitimately of the best defensive players going around, even if his offensive production had dropped off. Hardly irrelevant.

MVP candidate? No. But irrelevant? Never.

KG and Kobe have done their fair share of ignorance, but when comparing players, they're certainly just as good as Tim Duncan on the court. And IMO, better.

No. They're not.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I wonder where Rondo will end up?

I'm guessing the Lakers.

 

[Doc Samson]

I know. Yet somehow you still managed to squeeze all your craziness in that small period of time...

SMDH!

...or perhaps because Shaquille O'Neal happened to play in the toughest era for centers by far. Those same things you're saying... would've applied to Patrick Ewing too. And Ewing plays a decade earlier or a decade later (hell 5 years either way would have been enough) and that changes pretty quick. Not much space between Hakeem, Robinson, Dikembe and Zo. Effort had nothing to do with it.

He was still defensively great on the block and from the weak side, if not elite in his ridiculously strong generation.

Completely ridiculous. If this were the case, then it would apply to the offensive side of the floor too, would it not? All those guys played offense, and Shaq managed to compile stats all the same. Physically, he was far superior to any Center not named Wilt Chamberlain. He just wasn't a great defensive player, plain and simple, and didn't aspire to be. Shaq played hard when Shaq decided he wanted to play hard, this was not an everyday occurrence.

No. But Duncan was getting beaten comfortably, which was huge in those series' because he was a guy who didn't allow that.

Sure he did, when he was going up against KG. But besides that, I'm not going to continue to beat this deadhorse, Kobe absolutely torched the Spurs, routinely, in the playoffs, when it counted. This isn't debatable, this is factual.

You do if you're a ridiculous stat-****e with a highly questionable shot-selection and even worse conscience.

And your second statement is particularly funny. You're talking about the Spurs and you say that. How many times has Kobe's cover in Spurs games been Bruce Bowen - possibly the most one dimensional offensive player in NBA history - and how many of those games has Bowen gone off for more than his regular average?

More nonsense, I don't know what stat ****e even means lol, you're nuts with that. They're playing to win a game, Kobe isn't concerned with "stuffing stats" he's stuffing them b****** because he was just as unstoppable on the perimeter as Shaq was in the middle lol. You're reaching, as usual.

And nice cherry picking with the "Especially in the Finals" centers loaded the West because teams needed one to hope to be competitive with Shaq (and the myriad of big name centers other teams had to compete with Shaq)...

How do you cherry-pick truth? It's facts. Once again, that's what happened. The East had weak Centers, their best players were on the perimeter and Kobe guarded them. Period.

This one's actually true.

No, all of it is. Whether you choose to accept certain aspects of it is entirely up to you.

No, he was still legitimately of the best defensive players going around, even if his offensive production had dropped off. Hardly irrelevant.

MVP candidate? No. But irrelevant? Never.

Very irrelevant. There was talk, frequently, about how long he would play and when the team would finally move on from the Pop-Duncan era. That talk doesn't happen if you're still that great. It happens when the light at the end of the tunnel is parked directly in front of your face.

No. They're not.

According to you, and you're entitled to that. I'm entitled to what I feel, and what I know and what I've seen. They both are. And it's not really debatable IMO. You guys continue to do it, that's fine. Just two games ago the Spurs won and Duncan had 4 points and 6 or 7 rebounds. And that was fine. If Kobe has that statline it's some sort of "evidence" on how better the team is when he doesn't score, or some sort of idiotic nonsense like that lol it's actually funny to see how you guys talk out of both sides of your mouth. Then Timmy has a throwback game and we're ratcheting up the drumbeat again. But it is what it is...