BvS The Official Bizarro/Clone of Superman Thread!

That.... is really interesting Rogbngp. :hmm

Never considered that possibility of Bertrons DNA being in the scout ship.

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Nice find. :woot:

Thx. :yay:

I wonder what the meaning of "We remember those who fell during the Last War" is...

bertrons-curse.png
 
Thx. :yay:

I wonder what the meaning of "We remember those who fell during the Last War" is...

Probably either some sort of Civil War on Krypton or an intergalactic world during Krypton's universe colonisation.

MoS showed that Krypton was advanced enough to capture and colonize other planets.
 
Or in fact it could be a War of when the armies of Krypton had to contain Doomsday in the first place.
 
And has anyone deciphered the English language characters in the middle of that screen?

I see "?e Elaver Vi??" and after it, it looks like the house of El sigil. The crest following it looks vaguely familiar and may appear somewhere on the Krypton segment of the film.
 
It could be the El Sigil, maybe they were the ones responsible for either creating this beast or eventually contain him, not sure tho.
 
It could be the El Sigil, maybe they were the ones responsible for either creating this beast or eventually contain him, not sure tho.

Yeah, I don't know if Bertron might have been a member of the House of El, maybe I'll see what I can glean from the Interwebs on it.

Edir: Nope, he an alien of unknown species and origin.

In this wiki source there's an interesting tidbit about Zod in connection to Doomsday, though:

General Zod claims to have been responsible for hunting down and killing those who created Doomsday. He said:

"I decimated the Doomsday Terrorists before they unleashed their monster!"


It is unknown if he was referring to Bertron and his group of scientists or not. It is unknown whether this statement is accurate or not. (Superman: Last Son)
 
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Yeah, I don't know if Bertron might have been a member of the House of El, maybe I'll see what I can glean from the Interwebs on it.

Edir: Nope, he an alien of unknown origin.

Oh Bertron?

I have no idea, probably an alien visitor to the aliens lol.
 
Or (!) perhaps the Doomsday element is very deliberate. We see in the MoS Easter egg the scout ship screen that states "Beware Berton's curse, for he is named Doomsday." If Lex has full access to the AI database from the scout ship, then he may actually get his hands on Berton's DNA recipe for Doomsday.

bertrons-curse.png


In order for Lex to defeat Superman he needs a creature that is more powerful. Doomsday is like the Hulk, though--pure, savage, uncontrollable destructive fury. So Lex tries to design a Zod/Doomsday hybrid. That is, he would be trying to create a version of Doomsday that is more intelligent and controllable, and using Zod's DNA to do that.

Anyway, in broad strokes I think that is pretty similar to the comic book stories of Luthor creating Bizarro via cloning tech from Zod's corpse. But the mentally challenged traditional version of Bizarro could be interpreted as rendering someone with such a disability a "monster." So we're not going to see that version. Instead the Frankenstein-ish aspect of Bizarro will be emphasized. And not for nothing, in Mary Shelley's version Frankenstein is intelligent. (Shelley's Frankenstein monster is actually a tragic figure; not that I think BvS's Doomsday will be, though.)

Hmm, could be.

We should also remember that technically Superman has the DNA of all Kryptonians (artificially engineered ones, but I have no doubt they were based on the naturally birthed population).

We do see Superman bleeding too...so it shouldn't be too hard for Lex to get some samples of the DNA.

I wonder if they will expand on that (Bertron, the Last War and all that). They could simply reference it in later movies (Last War being an event the Lantern Corps participated in).
 
Hmm, could be.

We should also remember that technically Superman has the DNA of all Kryptonians (artificially engineered ones, but I have no doubt they were based on the naturally birthed population).

We do see Superman bleeding too...so it shouldn't be too hard for Lex to get some samples of the DNA.

I wonder if they will expand on that (Bertron, the Last War and all that). They could simply reference it in later movies (Last War being an event the Lantern Corps participated in).

In MoS Zod's science officer actually gets a blood sample from Supes and discovers the Codex is "bonded" somehow into his cells. With the advanced tech that Kryptonians have I don't think it a great stretch for data being shared between ships (here the Black Zero and the scout ship), such that even though the Black Zero was lost, that data (Supes' DNA) is retrievable still from the scout ship. Just saying that something like that (at least to me) doesn't feel like an overreach, i.e., for such advanced AI.
 
In MoS Zod's science officer actually gets a blood sample from Supes and discovers the Codex is "bonded" somehow into his cells. With the advanced tech that Kryptonians have I don't think it a great stretch for data being shared between ships (here the Black Zero and the scout ship), such that even though the Black Zero was lost, that data (Supes' DNA) is retrievable still from the scout ship. Just saying that something like that (at least to me) doesn't feel like an overreach, i.e., for such advanced AI.

Oh, yes.

Speaking of which, one of the MOS Bluray extras explicitly mentions that the military was able to hack into the communications (which they used to make a documentary about Krypton).

That could also come into play.
 
The latest spot from Conan or Clone'in :D really fits well with the clone theory :o Of course there could be "real" Superman scenes throughout all these clips, and cloned Superman as well. If it is even a part of the story.
 
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So it's really been confirmed that Bizarro will be in this? I'd feel excited about it and skeptical at the same time. Of course it would be weird to see a "Me am Superman" guy talking like that, but on the other hand still not being the classic version we know with the backwards S, with the darker colored suit...how much darker can you get it though when Henry's suit is already dark enough on film? Bizarro's suit would just look black for that matter the darker saturation they go.

The most interesting part about Bizarro for me is the backwards "S" and how everything about him is the opposite of Superman. Venom is kind of like the Bizarro in the Spider-Man universe. Polar opposites. And Reverse-Flash/Professor Zoom is like The Flash's Bizarro. Opposite streak colors.

But the evil Superman in Superman III was decent enough. I could go or that.
 
If "clone Superman" is in this and is the one fighting Batman, that would make this movie irredeemable in everyone's eyes. It would literally kill the DCEU in one move. I hope for everyone's sake they haven't done that. It would be the biggest own goal in history and I really don't think WB, Snyder, Terrio or Affleck are that stupid.

I also hope Bizzaro isn't in this movie. There is a point where enough is enough. I didn't think the movie needed Doomsday, but Bizzaro would be enough to make me say that I don't think this movie (which I have been excited for up until this point) can possibly be any good.
 
I think Bizarro would be awesome and hilarious, especially if he's loyal to Lex. Forever Evil's Bizarro was gold.
 
If "clone Superman" is in this and is the one fighting Batman, that would make this movie irredeemable in everyone's eyes. It would literally kill the DCEU in one move. I hope for everyone's sake they haven't done that. It would be the biggest own goal in history and I really don't think WB, Snyder, Terrio or Affleck are that stupid.

I also hope Bizzaro isn't in this movie. There is a point where enough is enough. I didn't think the movie needed Doomsday, but Bizzaro would be enough to make me say that I don't think this movie (which I have been excited for up until this point) can possibly be any good.

OK, so keep lowering your expectations so that when you see it, you'll think its the greatest CBM of all-time.
 
OK, so keep lowering your expectations so that when you see it, you'll think its the greatest CBM of all-time.

Not if this movie is about Batman fighting an evil Superman clone.

That's unforgivable on every level.

Even if it's as simple as a Superman clone starting the fight and it being between the real Supes and Batman, it's still god awful. This movie is much more interesting when it's about a fight between two men because of their values and beliefs rather than a zany misunderstanding.
 
If "clone Superman" is in this and is the one fighting Batman, that would make this movie irredeemable in everyone's eyes. It would literally kill the DCEU in one move. I hope for everyone's sake they haven't done that. It would be the biggest own goal in history and I really don't think WB, Snyder, Terrio or Affleck are that stupid.

I also hope Bizzaro isn't in this movie. There is a point where enough is enough. I didn't think the movie needed Doomsday, but Bizzaro would be enough to make me say that I don't think this movie (which I have been excited for up until this point) can possibly be any good.

Superman kneeling infront of Lex with a disgust in his face.
Superman is annoyed by existence of a vigilante.
Cavill's Superman doesn't act like corny boyscout once again.

And now just because Superman doesn't act like a wimp against Batman, people assume there must be bizarro.It's as ridiculous as Joker is Jason Todd theory at this point.

99.9% chance there is no bizarro or any mind control thing.
 
It was stated often enough that the title is "Batman v Superman" and not versus because there won't be just a physical fight but also a fight between their ideologies. Therefore, bringing in a Superman clone makes no sense imo.
 
I really think the kneeling thing might be a misdirect. He may not even be kneeling at all but in his knees because Lex has just shown him Kryptonite for the first time.
 
I really think the kneeling thing might be a misdirect. He may not even be kneeling at all but in his knees because Lex has just shown him Kryptonite for the first time.
That's how I see it. The disgusted look he gives Lex shows that he is not willingly kneeling down before him.
 
Repost from Open Discussion:

Against better judgment I'm going to have one final go at trying to explain why the clone theory was even remotely considered, because it seems that most people who dismiss it out of hand misunderstand that those who have considered it a possibility (that they will leave open) are not advocating for it! It's just been considered as a potential plot device to explain some imagery that seems to go beyond Superman just being the stern new sheriff in town.

Personally, I don't think that the clone device is needed at all and there are plenty of other ways in which Batman might be pitted against one another by Lex in addition to their different ideologies about their respective roles as society's protector. (I have my own theory about it that is clone-free.) But that said, the clone device would all depend on execution, and is not necessarily something that would automatically ruin the film. Months ago Kryps, Clark and I all concurred that we're not hoping for it--just that if it is used, that it is done well! My hope is that in the scene of Superman kneeling before Lex (and although not as clear, perhaps a couple of similar looking ones with him wearing the spit curl) that there's a satisfying explanation for why Superman is wearing such a hateful, sneering expression. (To my eye that is more than just stern or grimly determined.) That's all! Hopefully we'll get that without Superman being a clone. I mean the venom in his look could just be directed toward Lex for whatever leverage Lex has exerted over him there.

The "Bizarro" speculations are I think by now more clearly framed within Lex performing cloning experiments with Zod--either using his stem cells to grow a fetus in the birthing chamber, or by reanimating Zod's corpse... but in either case evidently splicing in Bertron's DNA code for Doomsday. In the comics it is Lex's efforts to clone from Zod that result in Bizarro. So the term "Bizarro" would have a rather loose connection in this film. Here I would not expect the traditional Bizarro (a figure that is politically incorrect due to his cognitive deficits) but rather a creation that plays up the Frankenstein monster parallels that Bizarro has always had.

Anyway, I've seen a tendency to be both dismissive and derisive toward attempts to theorize about what results from Lex's cloning experiments in this film! But neither of those two things are really all that whacked out. They are actually both fairly thoughtful concepts...

As I said, though, I do expect that we will see Doomsday to have been the result of cloning experiments by Lex in some way using Zod's corpse. However Clark, Krypton, and I all agreed back when that once it was clear that Doomsday was in this film, for that reason we actually do not expect to see a clone of Superman created as a device to pit Supes and Bats against one another. It would feel redundant to have two cloned monsters.

I'm now more than ever looking forward to discovering the explanation for what appears to be a sort of sneering, venomous Superman that I would still maintain we have gotten glimpses of (and gets condensed in Batman's dream). I do believe that there are images of Superman that suggest that something unusual is going on with him--we'll just have to find out what it is! And honestly, believe me, I do hope that it is not a clone.
And except for the strikethroughed bit (by me) below (which is for me an overstatement) I very much agree with jasontood, actually, that it's fine with me if we're seeing a more badass, hardass type of Superman than we have ever seen before. A bit more like a tough cop or western sheriff. It works for me.

It's Superman it's not a clone it's not Bizarro. As was mentioned previously it is perfectly in character for Superman to mean business and be authoritative but issue a warning. This is a man who eventually will command the utmost respect from the rest of the members of the Justice League. One of whom is a Sea King and the other a Goddess. I feel like Superman is one of the most misunderstood and misconstrued characters among general audience or casual comic book fans. He isn't an infallible perfect blank slate of goodness. Just because he can be authoritative, especially against an individual he deems to be dangerous and possibly disturbed does not mean he can't be an ideal to strive towards. Doesn't mean he can't still be a hero to aspire to be. He is a Super Man he's not a Super sensitive non confrontational non threatening pansy. He is supposed to be Earth's greatest protector. This characterization in this clip is pure Superman.

I wouldn't call it "pure" Superman, because I think he's a more multifaceted character (as jasontodd even says), but I do agree that it is a side that he is allowed to have!
 
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Tis additional villain is supposed to lead into JL. Bizarro is cool and all but I think you need a bigger baddie for JL. Not convinced Bizarro will happen yet.
 
That's how I see it. The disgusted look he gives Lex shows that he is not willingly kneeling down before him.

It certainly could be just that. It might just be seething contempt at Lex for whatever Lex is using as leverage there.
 

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