BvS Predict major plot points/ hell, write the script yourself, what happens in BM v SM

[smallville fan]

Wonder woman cameo/easter eggs

 

[daveswb]

Hear my co-host and I talk about the plot points we would like in the movie: http://superherospeak.com/wp/16-the-writers-room-with-ben-and-dave/

 

[Batmannerism]

Wonder woman cameo/easter eggs

Nice ! What about a Flash easter egg ?

 

[DvilDog]

I like almost all the ideas, minus the ones where batman mysteriously has kryptonite and pounds on supes. I hope they don't really pound on each other at all.

 

[Batmannerism]

People,

just read Geoff Johns "Superman, Brainiac"
Loved what Johns did for GL and Batman,

Now I can see why so many people are pulling for Brainiac as a villain.
Not only does he have the power to give Supes a tough time, but
whenever he shows up the stakes are "fate of the world"
truly a "job for Superman."

If Brainiac does show up, hopefully they'll consult Johns' source material
, would be epic. However, I think they should save that for MOS 2
(not a BM /SM team-up, or whatever this next film's going to be).
A Luthor-Brainiac team up in a sequel, now that's a possibility.


Anyway, back to major plot points.

- I'm on board with Luthor actually creating Kryptonite, the question
is from what ? The idea of terraformed earth isn't bad, but it's more the
atmosphere that's the issue re: Supes' powers (e.g. on Zod's ship
when Jor-El's AI restored the atmosphere, he could smash through the
ship's bulkhead easily.

-However, the particulates that make it tough for Supes to breathe,
that's got some potential.
Whoever suggested that Luthor could get his mitts on that, sounds
like something that would fit in with the continuity - maybe he could
replicate it as a gas - so gaseous rather than solid kryptonite.

-or maybe, Luthor gets ahold of Kryptonian firearms, (remember the
shuttle Zod landed when he took control of the scout-ship, it's still out
there) and if Luthor has to reverse-engineer the tech, perhaps instead of blue plasma, it fires green plasma ? Maybe he calls the brand of weapon
"kryptonite" (kind of like a sci-fi Kalashnikov).

- I can see why people are pulling for Metallo, still not sure about
whether a Supes/Metallo fight will be suitably epic.

- Not sure if Gordon will feature much, other than a walk-on role.

- We know Lois will have to meet Bruce Wayne, but which Batman supporting
characters will Supes meet ? Maybe a Joker cameo, to set up the
next Batman movie ? Can't see the Joker playing a big part (because
any movie that has the Joker in it, could only be big enough for Bats and
the Joker, if we're doing justice to the character).

Any thoughts people ?

Loving the posts so far ! Peace.

 

[Kimura]

I think the problem with all these "plot ideas" is that they´re all very obvious and predictable. They´re the stuff anyone familiar with the comics would think of right away. And i honestly hope Snyder stays as far as possible from any of these ideas. It would be weird to see a plot that was basically predicted by all the forum members.

I hope they do something different. Surprise us. Stay away from cliche story telling, please. Stay away from the obvious. Stay away from what everybody thinks is going to happen. Start fresh.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think the problem with all these "plot ideas" is that they´re all very obvious and predictable. They´re the stuff anyone familiar with the comics would think of right away. And i honestly hope Snyder stays as far as possible from any of these ideas. It would be weird to see a plot that was basically predicted by all the forum members.

I hope they do something different. Surprise us. Stay away from cliche story telling, please. Stay away from the obvious. Stay away from what everybody thinks is going to happen. Start fresh.

Dude, no offence, I'm not mocking you here, and I think your comment has a certain validity to it.

I'd like to address the point here you've raised about fan-predicted ideas, and why they're something to avoid -because I completely disagree.


For starters, it's a Superman movie, actually a Superman and Batman movie.
As such, it's going to have a bunch of predictable Superhero clichés, and why ? Because they're popular. We read comics to see Braniac and Luthor do terrible things, and then we want to see Superman/Batman kick the crap out of them and foil their evil schemes.

That's how the convention operates - if you deviate from that too much, you don't have a superhero movie at all, certainly not a Superman movie anyway. I submit to you that people go and see Superman films because they know precisely what they 're going to get (kind of like eating at Burger King). It's a guilty pleasure !

The only slight surprise in MOS was Supes killing Zod - look at the reaction
some people love it, some hate it. Do you think WB is going to go for
something avant garde with BM v SM ? I doubt it. Killing is a big deal in the comic book world, as most superheroes try to avoid it (again, part of the convention).

Furthermore, all the bad guys are clichés of one kind of another
and Superman, he's the original superhero cliché (and Batman is the second superhero cliché - the dark avenger !) . Sure you can flesh out
his motivations and character a bit, but really he's a guy who flies, lifts
mountains and fights bad guys. That's who he is.
So by definition, the story is going to have an element of predictability.


Example, In MOS Zod and crew show up, what happens ?
They try and wipe out humanity and then Zod and Supes have a big smackdown. I think we all saw that coming. Even people who didn't read comic books probably saw that coming.

It's not like they were going to show up,
co-exist peacefully, cure cancer and then Superman's big conflict would end up with him grappling whether to replace the drapes at the farmhouse with blinds, or just get new curtains altogether.


(remember that bit in MOS when Supes is fighting in Smallville and that
guy falls from the chopper, what happens, Supes saves him, it's cliché
but its also classic Superman, that's what we expect him to do, we
know that's what he's going to do.


It's a bit like a guy I read about, complaining that in MOS Superman solves problems by punching them. Guess what dude, if you've ever read
a Superman comic, you'll know that when Darkseid/Brainiac/Doomsday
show up, Superman's primary way of stopping them is......punching them.


Like, as soon as they cast the major villains, you pretty much know what's
going to happen (eg. "Tom Hardy cast as Bane" we knew exactly what he was going to do, long before TDKR came out, just not exactly how it would play out. WE even know that he's going to kick Batman's ass, earning him a well-deserved beating at the climax of the film - which is precisely what we got, saw it coming and loved it !)

Maybe it's a limitation of the genre, but it's a limitation that we all love.
If you get a story with lots of twists and turns, then you have Game of Thrones - but that's a different thing altogether.

Superheroes are predictable. Possibly the only superhero literature that's
slightly unpredictable was Watchmen, and that's really an anti-superhero
story.

It just seems like Superman movies aren't the place where you're watching the film, something unexpected happens, and you turn to your boy/girl/whatever -friend and say "I never saw THAT coming !"
instead it's a place where a bad guy does something awful, and later on
when his come-uppance arrives courtesy of a good hard smack on the jaw
you smile to yourself and think "F#$% yeah !"

What would be unexpected is if Superman was completely defeated at the end of the film (not by Bats, that's already been done), and it ended on a cliff-hanger (a bit like Empire Strikes BAck), but then we'd know that in the next film he'd find a way to come out on top - because that's what Superman does.

So, no offence, and I realise that we can only think of, stuff we can think of, but what sort of fresh ideas are you talking about ?
I'm not mocking you here, but could you give us an example maybe? I'm betting that if you can, then someone on this or another forum has thought of it, and if no one has, then it's not something that would fit within the conventions that make Superman, Superman.

Thanks for raising the issue. Peace

 

[Frodo]

I think the problem with all these "plot ideas" is that they´re all very obvious and predictable. They´re the stuff anyone familiar with the comics would think of right away. And i honestly hope Snyder stays as far as possible from any of these ideas. It would be weird to see a plot that was basically predicted by all the forum members.

I hope they do something different. Surprise us. Stay away from cliche story telling, please. Stay away from the obvious. Stay away from what everybody thinks is going to happen. Start fresh.

That's why I can't really predict plot points but I know what I don't [/I]wanna see .which is... beginning of rant :

-Gotham City ,which it looks like we're gonna get anyway
-Batman's supporting cast like Gordon, Robin, Batgirl, etc. Alfred is a must , but that's it as far as I'm concerned
-A Bruce, Clark, and Lois Love triangle. Resist the temptation. If he absolutely must to have a love interest , have it be a new character who possibly even works for Lex but who believes Lex is a good man with Metropolis's best interest in mind. You could even have her be someone who works in the government or in the military. Have it be a character important to the plot. Either way , I don't want the Lois who was bonding with Clark in MOS to suddenly be caught in a triangle between Wayne and Kent
- The foppish , Bale like -skirt chasing Wayne persona. Make him a humanitarian serious about Wayne Enterprises Global mission statement. In other words, less the tabloid celeb and more of the activist , fundraiser , UN diplomat mode.
- The origins and flashbacks to his parents death . Don't do it again. We all know his story. That can be fleshed out in solo films if they wish.
- A Batman villain thrown in for the sake of it being "cool". If they're gonna have one, it should be a character who fits the story .
- A contrived reason for the heroes to be at odds such as in the old BVS script from 2002.
- Clark portrayed as he was in The Dark Knight Returns. It would make zero sense for the guy who was very defiant toward the US government in MOS to suddenly be their lapdog. If anything, in this universe, it would make more sense that Batman would be on their side, but I don't want that either.
- Mindless action for the sake of "looking cool" and "money shots" , which don't further the story along.
- A Batman totally beat down of Superman. He can maybe win one scrape encounter using Kryptonite but I don't wanna see a Bane style beat down of Clark. If its like Avengers in which it ends in a draw , that's fine but I'm not gonna buy Batman handing Superman his ass threw the whole film.

-Bruce as a mentor. I want both of these characters to learn something from each other , not one showing the other one how its done.

Finally, I want the writers to keep their eyes on the prize. If the goal is to make an eventual JLA film, these two guys are gonna have to get along at some point and form an uneasy alliance. Don't get so caught up in smash stuff up and the two fighting each other that it becomes difficult to believe this two would work together for a greater goal.
end of rantt:.

 

[Batmannerism]

That's why I can't really predict plot points but I know what I don't [/I]wanna see .which is... beginning of rant :

-Gotham City ,which it looks like we're gonna get anyway
-Batman's supporting cast like Gordon, Robin, Batgirl, etc. Alfred is a must , but that's it as far as I'm concerned
-A Bruce, Clark, and Lois Love triangle. Resist the temptation. If he absolutely must to have a love interest , have it be a new character who possibly even works for Lex but who believes Lex is a good man with Metropolis's best interest in mind. You could even have her be someone who works in the government or in the military. Have it be a character important to the plot. Either way , I don't want the Lois who was bonding with Clark in MOS to suddenly be caught in a triangle between Wayne and Kent
- The foppish , Bale like -skirt chasing Wayne persona. Make him a humanitarian serious about Wayne Enterprises Global mission statement. In other words, less the tabloid celeb and more of the activist , fundraiser , UN diplomat mode.
- The origins and flashbacks to his parents death . Don't do it again. We all know his story. That can be fleshed out in solo films if they wish.
- A Batman villain thrown in for the sake of it being "cool". If they're gonna have one, it should be a character who fits the story .
- A contrived reason for the heroes to be at odds such as in the old BVS script from 2002.
- Clark portrayed as he was in The Dark Knight Returns. It would make zero sense for the guy who was very defiant toward the US government in MOS to suddenly be their lapdog. If anything, in this universe, it would make more sense that Batman would be on their side, but I don't want that either.
- Mindless action for the sake of "looking cool" and "money shots" , which don't further the story along.
- A Batman totally beat down of Superman. He can maybe win one scrape encounter using Kryptonite but I don't wanna see a Bane style beat down of Clark. If its like Avengers in which it ends in a draw , that's fine but I'm not gonna buy Batman handing Superman his ass threw the whole film.

-Bruce as a mentor. I want both of these characters to learn something from each other , not one showing the other one how its done.

Finally, I want the writers to keep their eyes on the prize. If the goal is to make an eventual JLA film, these two guys are gonna have to get along at some point and form an uneasy alliance. Don't get so caught up in smash stuff up and the two fighting each other that it becomes difficult to believe this two would work together for a greater goal.
end of rantt:.

Good rant bro, part of knowing who you are, is knowing who you're not.
That's a very valid approach. I disagree with you on some of those, but
a lot of your points are very sensible -some of that stuff might work in the comics but probably wouldn't cut it on the big screen (kind of like undies over top of tights).
By the Avengers' "Draw" I take it you mean Iron Man vs Thor, good analogy. I thought that that was a good handling of the old "superheroes meet for first time and fight" cliche, if anyone wasn't suppressing a cheer each time they smacked each other, then they have to be a little dead inside.
That could work with Clark and Bats, would make a lot more sense than the
Dark Knight returns smackdown - the whole motivation for that fight is a philosophical difference that's been brewing for decades, it just wouldn't work as a first encounter, because the motivation isn't there - it isn't personal enough. So very much with you on that one.


Peace.