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The Official Fantastic Four Thread

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Presumably, Reed is of the mindset that "never" actually means never. As for the other methods of creating a new Earth or using an existing one, eh... it's Millar.

Hey, if he went around acknowledging the multiple times other people had used the same ideas, he couldn't go around acting like he were the first person ever to think of them.

Look over there! Ninjas!
 
Millar's run has been utterly underwhelming. It's not absolute crap, but I expected a lot better and there's a lot of things I just don't like such as the Thing not dating Alicia and Johnny's characterization. While Hitch's art is great, he's just not suited for this book either.

Bring back Mark Waid and put a bright and colorful artist on the book.
 
So why the poo is Ben not dating Alicia and is instead going to marry some random woman?
 
I could've sworn there was some plot point about her being married or at least seeing someone back in Slott's Thing series.
 
According to The Wikipedia, Slott's series ended with Ben getting back with Alicia, so...no, don't think so.

I believe Millar merely had them separated at the start of his run so that Ben will get with this random person.
 
Eh, well, they've always had a tumultuous history. It doesn't really stretch credibility too much for them to have broken up for the fifty billionth time.
 
It's not so much the "not dating Alicia" part that was jarring so much as the "Who the hell is this person that you're marrying not even a year into the run" thing. Even Storm and T'Challa had an actual relationship compared to this..
 
Eh, I'm sure it won't last. Real-life statistics and comic book frivolity are both working against them.
 
I'm enjoying the series so far, but man, Millar has some really far-out concepts. Is anyone else completely boggled as to how building an entire counterpart earth from scratch is even remotely possible?? I mean how would you even begin to make something like that? I know its a comic book and all, but i just find it kind of impossible to build another earth and be able to keep it a secret. It would take billions of people just to rebuild New York alone.
 
Well, I remember reading some ridiculously rich oil tycoon in the Middle East had plans to build his own island a couple years ago. Same principle, really. Curiosity + money = outlandishly extravagant stuff.
 
I'm enjoying the series so far, but man, Millar has some really far-out concepts. Is anyone else completely boggled as to how building an entire counterpart earth from scratch is even remotely possible?? I mean how would you even begin to make something like that? I know its a comic book and all, but i just find it kind of impossible to build another earth and be able to keep it a secret. It would take billions of people just to rebuild New York alone.

That is one concept of Millar's I find pretty cool actually.
 
Dont get me wrong, i think its very cool, it's just...very very imaginative. Millar's stories often depend on down-to-earth realism, and this concept is very far out. I dont know how you would even begin to create a "nu-earth".
 
Dont get me wrong, i think its very cool, it's just...very very imaginative. Millar's stories often depend on down-to-earth realism, and this concept is very far out. I dont know how you would even begin to create a "nu-earth".
That really shouldn't be a problem though. Like at all. Fantastic Four stories are supposed to be very, very imaginative which is one aspect that Millar is getting right.

Unfortunately a lot of other things just drag it down. A great but wrong artist. Ben's stupid girlfriend. Johnny Storm being Paris Hilton. Millar ignoring certain things such as Ben is supposed to be back with Alicia. No Alicia at all. And what the hell is up with the Hulk?
 
Eh, I'm sure it won't last. Real-life statistics and comic book frivolity are both working against them.
Well, sure, by that logic this entire run is just fine and dandy 'cause it probably won't last. :confused:
 
I'm enjoying the series so far, but man, Millar has some really far-out concepts. Is anyone else completely boggled as to how building an entire counterpart earth from scratch is even remotely possible?? I mean how would you even begin to make something like that? I know its a comic book and all, but i just find it kind of impossible to build another earth and be able to keep it a secret. It would take billions of people just to rebuild New York alone.

Robots.

BOFFO, BABY!
 
Entering the conversation in this topic late, but...

For the record, Thing WAS reunited with Alicia at the end of THE THING #8. Alicia had moved on and was dating another nice (if not a little sissy) fellow and eventually Thing was able to get her back. Slott stressed that they were an iconic couple and all that. And the ONLY writer who carried this along was Norton, in MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #1. McDuffie virtually ignored Alicia during his tenure on FF (JMS was wrapping up his book in the middle of CW, so he has an excuse), and Millar has followed that tradition and inserted a completely random teacher character. It is quite annoying. Pretending longstanding, deep character connections don't exist is why comic fans get so jaded and cynical. Writers have shown them for years how their nearest and dearest stories and relationships can be undone, ruined, or omitted for no good reason besides convenience (at best sometimes). It stinks.

As for the rest of Millar's run so far? It is amazingly more upbeat than most of his other works. I do get the feeling that he genuinely likes the Four. There was a hint of America Bashing (the first arc featured a C.A.P. star spangled robot as the ultimate weapon), but at this point we all know that Millar's political views are somewhere along the Extreme Left, usually reserved for high cabinet members of Communist parties (or pampered California Democrats). Still, this is his lightest work in years. I liked the first arc overall but the second has simply added to Doom's new wimpishness and the New Defenders is a continuity nightmare. Millar also becomes the 400th writer to promise to kill off Sue Storm, and one wonders if that would last. Millar, much like Bendis, has the power to "instantly canonize" anything he writes. Much like Bendis.

Example: Dan Slott spends nearly a year getting Ben & Alicia together, and nothing happens. Bendis claims Purple Man as the most fiendish supervillain ever, and every single writer continues along that trend, even adding creepy "revelations" or so on. I am not against Purple Man being nasty, but it is clear that some writers CLEARLY have more editorial clout than others.

If Millar wanted to really make an event out of it, Ben would be marrying Alicia. But instead he invented a stock character (something he vowed not to do by reintroducing Claremont's Alyssa Moy), and that is telling.

Still, overall, I'd give the run a B rating. But this is only about 6 issues into an 18 issue run, and the quality is in a noticeable decline from the first few issues. Sales seem to match this, with numbers falling back to some of McDuffie's highs by July.

In a way I feel sorry for the McDuffie run. It wasn't anything bombastic, but it helped "normalize" the Four again after CW. His biggest blunder was omitting Alicia.
 
Entering the conversation in this topic late, but...

For the record, Thing WAS reunited with Alicia at the end of THE THING #8. Alicia had moved on and was dating another nice (if not a little sissy) fellow and eventually Thing was able to get her back. Slott stressed that they were an iconic couple and all that. And the ONLY writer who carried this along was Norton, in MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS #1. McDuffie virtually ignored Alicia during his tenure on FF (JMS was wrapping up his book in the middle of CW, so he has an excuse), and Millar has followed that tradition and inserted a completely random teacher character. It is quite annoying. Pretending longstanding, deep character connections don't exist is why comic fans get so jaded and cynical. Writers have shown them for years how their nearest and dearest stories and relationships can be undone, ruined, or omitted for no good reason besides convenience (at best sometimes). It stinks.

As for the rest of Millar's run so far? It is amazingly more upbeat than most of his other works. I do get the feeling that he genuinely likes the Four. There was a hint of America Bashing (the first arc featured a C.A.P. star spangled robot as the ultimate weapon), but at this point we all know that Millar's political views are somewhere along the Extreme Left, usually reserved for high cabinet members of Communist parties (or pampered California Democrats). Still, this is his lightest work in years. I liked the first arc overall but the second has simply added to Doom's new wimpishness and the New Defenders is a continuity nightmare. Millar also becomes the 400th writer to promise to kill off Sue Storm, and one wonders if that would last. Millar, much like Bendis, has the power to "instantly canonize" anything he writes. Much like Bendis.

Example: Dan Slott spends nearly a year getting Ben & Alicia together, and nothing happens. Bendis claims Purple Man as the most fiendish supervillain ever, and every single writer continues along that trend, even adding creepy "revelations" or so on. I am not against Purple Man being nasty, but it is clear that some writers CLEARLY have more editorial clout than others.

If Millar wanted to really make an event out of it, Ben would be marrying Alicia. But instead he invented a stock character (something he vowed not to do by reintroducing Claremont's Alyssa Moy), and that is telling.

Still, overall, I'd give the run a B rating. But this is only about 6 issues into an 18 issue run, and the quality is in a noticeable decline from the first few issues. Sales seem to match this, with numbers falling back to some of McDuffie's highs by July.

In a way I feel sorry for the McDuffie run. It wasn't anything bombastic, but it helped "normalize" the Four again after CW. His biggest blunder was omitting Alicia.

I'd say his biggest blunder was that God awful Gravity arc.

And having T'challa pwnn the surfer.
 
I kinda wish we got to see the black panther and Storm stay on the FF for a lil while longer, i feel like there was a lot of potential that we never got to see with that "new" FF.
 
I'd say his biggest blunder was that God awful Gravity arc.

And having T'challa pwnn the surfer.

The Gravity situation was not entirely his fault. Originally, the idea was to have Gravity sacrifice himself in the mini series BEYOND! and to return as a new Captain Marvel. However, while BEYOND! was coming out and so on, the editorial board decided to seemingly bring back THE Captain Marvel (as chronicled in CW: THE RETURN and the Reed/Weeks CAPTAIN MARVEL mini). This left McDuffie with a seemingly deceased Gravity with the Watcher claiming it was "only a beginning".

He could have gone the Bendis route, which would have been to shrug his narrative shoulders and go, "**** Gravity, that's someone else's problem now. How about some ninjas and dinosaurs!" Instead he made reviving Gravity to his proper power level a priority. Maybe involving him as a short lived cosmic level hero was a complicated way to do it, but I thought it was a decent bit of experience for the hero. He was revived, got back to his power level and even seemingly had Watcher return his secret identity status (somehow) for helping Dr. Strange and the Fantastic Four save Eternity.

In fact, the biggest caveat to that story also involved a woman. McDuffie had Gravity reveal his identity to his college girlfriend from the original McKeever mini, and she was there for his funeral. Gravity returned and simply stayed in his home state with his parents rather than at least drop a line on panel to his heartsick girlfriend, which stands as a bit cad-ish.

And yes, Black Panther outwrestling Silver Surfer was rather weak. But he's been trying to rival Batman's ridiculous "Prep Time" gimmick for a few years now.

But, after that space arc, what was next? Generic conflicts between the Frightful Four and an alternate timeline incarnation of Doom and the Four. I was far more interested in the Gravity stuff. McDuffie didn't handle him perfectly, but he'd have been in limbo just like The Loners without him. At least now he's part of The Initiative (the Nevada team, I believe).

I kinda wish we got to see the black panther and Storm stay on the FF for a lil while longer, i feel like there was a lot of potential that we never got to see with that "new" FF.

I don't know about that. While the Fantastic Four seem obligated to mix up their roster at least once a decade for about a year or so, they never last and are almost intentionally utilized as gimmicks. I wasn't sold on it originally, but McDuffie had Storm and Black Panther have a few moments, but I don't miss them either.

The one superhero who should have joined the team officially in some fashion is, of course, Spider-Man. He's been connected to the team since ASM #1 and they were connected franchises for decades after. Every time Peter had a superhero crisis, the Four were on speed-dial. He and Johnny were teenage rivals. But instead, he decides to latch onto Iron Man and join the Avengers, who he never liked enough to even remain on a reserve roster before. Makes total sense, right? :up:

That's all my opinion, of course. But Dan Slott's SPIDER-MAN/HUMAN TORCH and Jeff Parker's SPIDER-MAN & THE FANTASTIC FOUR ('Ringo's last mini) imply I'm not alone. If Spidey had to have joined any team, continuity wise the Four made the most sense. But, of course, in 2004, probably the biggest editorial demand for Bendis' new Avengers roster was "Wolverine and Spider-Man have to be on it", so that's all moot.
 
^^I completely agree, even though it obviously wouldnt be permanent i would love to see Spider-man join the FF, at least for a little while, that would be awesome. Btw, is the Spiderman/ Human Torch mini-series really as good as everyone is claiming? I'm thinking of picking it up. :yay:
 
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