Roose Bolton
Son of Katas
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I can't think of a single Showa film that I like more than any of the Heisei films. The 80s-90s were the golden era for Godzilla films.
I can't think of a single Showa film that I like more than any of the Heisei films. The 80s-90s were the golden era for Godzilla films.
What was so powerful and amazing about Ghidrah in the Showa era? Nothing. He kept saying how much of a "cosmic horror" he was or something. No, he really isn't. In his own film, Ghidrah the Three-Head Monster, all he does is fly over a Pagoda, shoot some energy beams and get taken out by Mothra. Hardly a "cosmic horror." In Astro Monster he does even less, mostly attacking the unpopulated moon![]()
As cool looking as Ghidrah/Ghidorah is he isn't any more intimidating than most of Godzilla's foes. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah does nothing to change this.
I hope this movie is huge, and is somewhat inspired by Cloverfield, with less 1st person stuff, and I hope it's not at all inspired by Pacific Rim.
It's not that hard to notice or see.
Ghidorah is a cosmic horror. Never play down a kaiju like that.
Ghidorah is a planet destroyer, he has wiped out multiple civilizations where ever he goes. He is a huge threat. And no, he wasn't taken out by Mothra in his own film.
Mothra knew that Ghidorah was much stronger than it. Mothra knew that on its own, that it would be killed. Mothra tried to get Godzilla and Rodan's help in defeating Ghidorah, believing that joining forces and fighting together will
save their planet.
Obviously, both Godzilla and Rodan were more interested in fighting each other, not caring that the world would end. So Mothra went on her own, and when she fought Ghidorah, she was crushed at every turn and at every second.
Of course, when Godzilla and Rodan decided to fight along side Mothra after seeing her courage in taking on a planet destroyer alone. The film shows that seperate and by themselves, neither Rodan nor Godzilla would be able to truly defeat Ghidorah on their own either. While both strong kaiju, they were both overwhelmed in almost no time at all.
Ghidorah was only successfully driven off once they all fought as a team.
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In Monster Zero, once again, it took team work to drive away Ghidorah. Although the first battle was actually an act, with the Xillians ordering Ghidorah to retreat to fool the humans into thinking that their honest work and cooperation had saved their planet. When really, they were simply trying to build a monster army to take over Earth. And when you have both Godzilla and Ghidorah on the same team, **** is going to get real. So he did more, and he wasn't attacking a moon, he was attacking Planet X. And they knew how value-able a planet destroyer was, and he was doing his best work in Godzilla vs. Monster Zero.
And the planet wasn't unpopulated, within the film it states that they once lived on its surface, but when Ghidorah came along and started destroying their world to extinction, they were forced to live underground. For a long time, Ghidorah ravaged their world before they managed to control him through brain waves. And from how damaged everything was, they were looking for a new place to move to.(Earth)
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In Godzilla vs. Gigan, and in Destroy All monsters. Again, to defeat and even kill Ghidorah. No monster could fight Ghidorah alone. Fighting alone was basically suicide. It always takes a unified team to drive him away, and a monster army just to wound him and finally kill him.
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Ghidorah is intimidating, and rightly holds the title as one of the most powerful kaiju within the Showa Godzilla universe for good reason.
In Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah, a normal Godzilla would have mostly been killed against Ghidorah. The Godzilla who fought Ghidorah was given a more powerful mutation from the collision of a highly modern advance nuclear submarine. Which made him stronger and much larger than what he originally would have been from the Atomic Bomb during World War II, this placed Godzilla on equal ground against Ghidorah.
If it wasn't for that, Godzilla wouldn't have survived and would have been choked to death. Hell, even during the beginning of their fight, Ghidorah was dominating Godzilla with easy, if it wasn't for the control room being destroyed and temporarily rendering Ghidorah confused and mentally useless. Then the outcome would have settled in Ghidorah's favor.
Now, Ghidorah was still powerful in this film, powerful and dangerous. But what that fan probably meant was that Ghidorah wasn't a planet destroyer like in the Showa Era. He was a specialized engineered creation made from Dorats and the atomic bomb. Technically erasing the establish foundation that Ghidorah was molded from within the film. But it didn't matter to me, Ghidorah was Ghidorah, he just had a different origin was all for that series. It didn't change the character in any negative way. Although for some hardcore fans that, they had a different tune.
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King Ghidorah is much more powerful than you give him credit for.
Yet, all of this power is never shown. He is not shown in any film to be any more deadly than any of Godzilla's other opponents. And Mothra is the one who pretty much beat him in Three-Headed Monster. All Godzilla did was hold his tail while Mothra spewed her webbing goo all over him. You can play him up all you want with dialogue and exposition, but you have to pay it off. That's like playing up how powerful Superman is only to have him get taken out by some rockets or something. I'm not talking down about Ghidorah. I like him, he just isn't shown to be this ultra badass the he is played up to be.
All of this is shown.
Mothra did not beat Ghidorah, beating Ghidorah would be her doing it on her own. Godzilla, Rodan, and Mothra as a united team defeated Ghidorah. Her webbing Ghidorah does not specifically signify her alone beating Ghidorah.
I'm not playing him up, I have already given you multiple examples. Godzilla alone could not defeat Ghidorah. Rodan could not either. Same with Mothra when she encountered Ghidorah first. The movie makes it painfully clear that none of them can beat Ghidorah on their own, and only together could they prevail. Mothra as well makes it painfully clear when she asks for Godzilla and Rodan's help, even going as far as to stating the fact herself during the whole conversation, via translated by her fairies. Its greatly stressed that only a team effort can drive Ghidorah away.
Compared to the likes of Showa MechaGodzilla who was taken down by the removal of his head, and the simple death of Katsura. Or Hedorah would was beaten by being simply dried out. Ghidorah in comparison who needs kaiju team-ups to beat is way more intimidating.
Um, no it's not really shown. AT ALL. Not once. Show me the scenes where we see Ghidrah destroying worlds? Exposition dialogue doesn't count.
My point is the fight in the film never actually gets across these monster couldn't take him one on one. The film doesn't get across he's this mega threat. At least not to me. Mothra spends time trying to convince G and R to fight him, they refuse, Ghidrah gets a shot in at Mothra and they decide to fight him. After that they gang up on him and win. Not once did the film show they had to overcome his strength or power. They just beat him with little opposition.
Ghidorah is a planet destroyer, even Toho officials state this when regarding the Character's bio and how they established him. We only had a women who was partially taken over by a surviving martian psyche who tells everything in what Ghidorah has done. This is again touched down on in Godzilla vs. Monster Zero (You seemed to have ignored that one...) with Planet X and how they were forced to live underground.
Later on in Rebirth of Mothra 3, this is touched on once again, we're shown a Young King Ghidorah devouring all forms of life, and being the case of the extinction of the Dinosaur Age before Mothra Leo engages after traveling back in time to kill Ghidorah at a much younger age since he couldn't defeat or kill him in the Present. The fairies confirm that Ghidorah, the King of Terror has wiped out numerous planets. Very much in the same fashion as DesGhidorah.
Yes. It does that they couldn't handle his power alone. Godzilla could not stop Ghidorah on his own, his atomic breath did not slow Ghidorah down, and he was overwhelmed and knocked down numerous of times. One of the examples within the film: Being knock down against a bridge and being attacked by Gravity Beams constantly, he couldn't get any breathing room or time to get up without Rodan coming and turning Ghidorah's focus onto him. If Godzilla was strong enough, he would have been driven away Ghidorah, but he wasn't.
Rodan could not stop Ghidorah on his own, and he was pinned down, retreating behind a large pile of boulders from Ghidorah's assault after ramming himself into the three headed monster. If Rodan was strong enough, then he wouldn't be hiding and would have attacked full force like he did against Godzilla. But he didn't now did he.
Mothra, being a larva, was no match against Ghidorah at all. She was mercilessly attacked by barrages of Gravity Beams when she decided to fight Ghidorah alone. She wasn't going to win against him. She wasn't attacked just one time with one shot.
They had to unite to overcome Ghidorah, and uniting is technically "ganging" up. Even when they were doing that, Godzilla kept being pushed aside, Mothra was useless as she was being wiped around like a rag doll by Ghidorah's tail. And Rodan, trying to do air support wasn't doing much damage at all. Ghidorah wasn't wounded, he wasn't weakened or beaten down. He was pretty much tanking everything before finally being driven off.
Ghidorah may not seem like a grand threat to you, but Toho has greatly well established him as one for many reasons and with many examples backing their creation.
Again, his planet destroying nature was not actually shown, with actual footage, in the films. I'm not saying he's not one, just the films never really SHOWED it. They can TELL me all they want how badass he is but in order to buy it fully you gotta actually show it. I have yet to see the Mothra series so I can't comment. And even so this is Godzilla we're discussing, not an separate series all together so that doesn't come into play.
It's obvious we aren't going to change each others minds here. I'm simply saying in my point of view and from what the films actually show Ghidrah does not come off as any more powerful or threatening than most other opponents in the series.
So they have to show you footage of Godzilla being directly mutated by an atomic bomb or nuclear fallout to make you believe that he is a nuclear mutated dinosaur? So they have to show you footage of Battra being a born from the Earth, and seeing it fighting Mothra in the past to show that Battra and Mothra were rivals?
The creators don't always have to show you something about a character to confirm a character's nature or atomsphere (A threat or badass in this case). Sometimes all that is needed is one simple aspect to confirm a character's detail. For Battra it was the cosmos confirming Battra's history and details. For Ghidorah in Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster it was the Martian who witnessed it all. This has been implemented within Toho's films for years.
And it was shown in the film, again, in Godzilla vs. Monster Zero he was attacking Planet X, even when there wasn't anything left to destroy upon the surface after his earlier attacks. In all of the films he was present in, he always attacks everything upon the planet that he is on. Even when he was freed from any alien control he resumed his planet destroying nature. (Monster Zero and Godzilla vs. Gigan being proof of this)
And yes, we're discussing Godzilla, but I was providing you with different examples of his character. Like how many people would with Godzilla's overall character in what Toho has established with him over the years.
All I'm saying that Ghidorah is much more powerful than you give him credit for with multiple examples already placed on the table form what Toho provided themselves. Hell even most of the fandom would agree that he is a threat.
And the top three powerful Showa Era opponents for Godzilla are King Ghidorah, Hedorah, Kumonga, and Mecha-Godzilla. So most of his stronger opponents, aren't really most since the many opponents that Godzilla has faced, never really made an impact like these few have. (And by that I mean actually proving to be a challenge for Godzilla.) But I agree, we won't see eye to eye on this one. And I respectfully accept that difference between us.
@Oberon sexton
It depends on which incarnation of the character you mean. Grand King Ghidorah would be on even level, especially since he can regenerate entire bodies from small limbs that have been cut off. And has the most firepower to date of all King Ghidorahs. (Minus DesGhidorah since he isn't related to King Ghidorah. Not sure about Kaiser Ghidorah though. That was most likely a remodel of the character for their final film.)
Destoroyah can tank a lot of attacks, but he can be broken down upon being overwhelmed. But I would still probably tip the ball a bit over to Destoroyah's court, being a living Oxygen Destoryer and all.
Godzilla being made from the bomb and Battra being born from the Earth is totally different. Those are simply origin facts that don't dictate how they act of how powerful they are. Ghidrah being toted as a world destroyer wasn't properly shown IN MY OPINION. Him attack a barren moon doesn't count...
You seem to think I'm talking **** about him. I'm not. I like him a good deal and find him one of the most visually stunning Kaiju ever conceived. But his ultimate power was never displayed imo.