The Official UFO, Conspiracy Theories and Supernatural Thread

Thundercrack85 said:
I think the problem with that Columbus-Indians analogy is that Christopher Columbus was pretty damn primitive himself.

Presumably these aliens aren't traveling interstellar distances to look for gold or to spread Catholicism.
Click to expand...

Spacefaring Catholics would be quite the sight. :woot:

You have a point but you're assuming as well that possessing highly advanced technology would make for a more enlightened species. I think any more advanced civilization is just as likely to colonize us and plunder our resources as it is to leave us alone in their version of the prime directive.
 
PacificBoy said:
Spacefaring Catholics would be quite the sight. :woot:

You have a point but you're assuming as well that possessing highly advanced technology would make for a more enlightened species. I think any more advanced civilization is just as likely to colonize us and plunder our resources as it is to leave us alone in their version of the prime directive.
Click to expand...

Well, advanced may not mean peaceful per se, but I do question what resources they would plunder. From a purely economic perspective, there really isn't anything in the Solar System that can't be found in abundance elsewhere in the galaxy, with the exception of the life that evolved on this planet. Though that might explain why aliens travel across time and space to abduct our cows. They probably don't have hamburgers on Planet X.

If we entertain the notion that aliens have visited Earth – which for the record, I don't find crazy – then there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

Presumably, any civilization that is visiting our planet is quite advanced. But it also stands to reason that the first interstellar-faring civilization that would visit us, would be the closest. So, it is possible that we may actually already be incorporated into some interstellar civilization's domain.

We're fairly blind here. There could be a civilization a few thousands years ahead of us orbiting Delta Pavonis (down the road in interstellar terms) and we would never know.

They would be getting the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Xena right now.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
Well, advanced may not mean peaceful per se, but I do question what resources they would plunder. From a purely economic perspective, there really isn't anything in the Solar System that can't be found in abundance elsewhere in the galaxy, with the exception of the life that evolved on this planet. Though that might explain why aliens travel across time and space to abduct our cows. They probably don't have hamburgers on Planet X.

If we entertain the notion that aliens have visited Earth – which for the record, I don't find crazy – then there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

Presumably, any civilization that is visiting our planet is quite advanced. But it also stands to reason that the first interstellar-faring civilization that would visit us, would be the closest. So, it is possible that we may actually already be incorporated into some interstellar civilization's domain.

We're fairly blind here. There could be a civilization a few thousands years ahead of us orbiting Delta Pavonis (down the road in interstellar terms) and we would never know.

They would be getting the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Xena right now.
Click to expand...

Great reply :yay:. I'm gonna borrow your "They probably don't have hamburgers on Planet X" line if you don't mind. :woot:
 
I witnessed 3 ufos flying one night. They were very high up, and at first glance they could have been mistaken for planes. It was about 1:30 one August morning about 8 years ago. My sister and I were walking home when she noticed 3 lights in the sky flying close together. She remarked about how odd it was those planes were flying so close together and I immediately joked about them being ufos. Curiosity sunk in and we continued watching. We first saw them high up in the northeast corner of the sky, they were bunched together in a triangle formation, with a reddish orange light as the tip, and 2 bluish lights in the back, after about 30 seconds the 2 bluish lights disappeared and then quickly reappeared now behind the reddish light in a straight line formation, still flying pretty close together. After about 10 seconds of flying like this they started to form more distance with each other whilst keeping the line formation. They stopped in their positions for a few seconds now in the northwest corner of the sky, and then the bluish light in the rear blinked out, and the one in the middle slowly dimmed out, the reddish orange one stayed in its position for a few seconds before the other lights reappeared close together again in the line formation, they continued circling the sky moving towards the southwest. As they moved they kept continuously changing from line formation to a triangle formation, the reddish orange light always in front, they would only disappear and reappear one more time when they reached the southeast portion of the sky, leaving the reddish orange light alone for about 10 seconds before appearing once more in the line formation and moving back towards where my sister and I first originally noticed them. Once they reached that point the light in the back disappeared and the one in the middle flew into the reddish orange one and that one then zoomed out of sky at an incredible speed and vanished. The entire experience fell dreamlike and I'd have questioned it happening at all if my sister hadn't witnessed it too, and we didn't have a crappy cell phone recording of it. Also I've heard from a few people I know in the military whose stories mesh with a lot of the stuff from a few posts ago, and also there being an extra dimensional intelligence that has/is visiting us too.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
I think the problem with that Columbus-Indians analogy is that Christopher Columbus was pretty damn primitive himself.

Presumably these aliens aren't traveling interstellar distances to look for gold or to spread Catholicism.
Click to expand...

This makes me wonder if anyone has written stories about aliens coming to earth to spread their religion. Most alien stories are about them invading and attacking earth or kidnapping and doing experiments on humans or other animals. There should be an alien equivalent of Jehovah witnesses. Just a couple of little grey men going planet to planet wanting people to accept their god.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
Well, advanced may not mean peaceful per se, but I do question what resources they would plunder. From a purely economic perspective, there really isn't anything in the Solar System that can't be found in abundance elsewhere in the galaxy, with the exception of the life that evolved on this planet. Though that might explain why aliens travel across time and space to abduct our cows. They probably don't have hamburgers on Planet X.

If we entertain the notion that aliens have visited Earth – which for the record, I don't find crazy – then there are a lot of interesting possibilities.

Presumably, any civilization that is visiting our planet is quite advanced. But it also stands to reason that the first interstellar-faring civilization that would visit us, would be the closest. So, it is possible that we may actually already be incorporated into some interstellar civilization's domain.

We're fairly blind here. There could be a civilization a few thousands years ahead of us orbiting Delta Pavonis (down the road in interstellar terms) and we would never know.

They would be getting the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Xena right now.
Click to expand...
"Uglon like this Will Smith!"
 
With all due respect, and not dismissing that you might be right, the more time passes, the more i find all of this to be crap.
Like i said, it's 85% for "there is nothing out there" and 15% to "i'm humble enough to say i don't know).

After reading your post, my best explanation is using your own sentence of...
VictusMortuus said:
I immediately joked about them being ufos.
Click to expand...
In other words, you saw what you wanted to see.
Even if you didn't believed at first, you had that hypothesis in the back of your skull.
For all you know, what you saw was ours and not extra-terrestrial.
I always find weird when people see a UFO and scream aliens....ufo stands for unidentified flying object and NOT for Alien Spacecraft.
Sure, it's usually used for the last, but my point is that can very well be ours.

There are plenty of logical reason to believe that there is no ETs at work:
> Conspiracy Theorists like to say that we have alien contacts, but we hide the truth. Funny thing is, they never quite get that, if that was the case, that would mean that the aliens would be in on the conspiracy, they would want to be hidden

> Going by that logic, the idea of UFOs being alien is ridiculous. Don't you think that, if an alien race(s) would want to stay hidden, the last thing they would do is FLY BELOW THE CLOUDS!!??

> If an alien race(s) would have no problem in showing themselves...where are they?

> Some say they don't want to interfere. Well, by that logic, they are making a piss poor job with all the UFO sightings and aliens abductions and alike.

> Then there is the alien abductions.....have you ever read anything about alien abductions or seen any movie about it? An alien race, extremely advanced, capable of interstellar travel......and they SUCK at medical procedures??! Their aliens experiments are awful, amateurish at best. We are 100x more advanced when it comes to medical examinations.
And i particularly like when the abductee say that, among all the examinations, the aliens keep saying telepathically they want to do us no harm...REALLY???!!!!!
So, traumatic and painful experiences are not to meant any harm? So, that how they handshake on their planet? Sex must be horrible...
 
I think any case of Alien Abduction is false, if anything volunteers from deep within the government would be a subject for ET to study, and if they were to be working with the government they would know the government would be able to write off any sighting as military activity, and I base my own sighting being ET related because the way they acted in the sky corresponds to a few reports I've read/seen from people who would know if it was top secret government stuff, including former Area 51 workers.
 
Isildur´s Heir;30726853 said:
With all due respect, and not dismissing that you might be right, the more time passes, the more i find all of this to be crap.
Like i said, it's 85% for "there is nothing out there" and 15% to "i'm humble enough to say i don't know).

After reading your post, my best explanation is using your own sentence of...

In other words, you saw what you wanted to see.
Even if you didn't believed at first, you had that hypothesis in the back of your skull.
For all you know, what you saw was ours and not extra-terrestrial.
I always find weird when people see a UFO and scream aliens....ufo stands for unidentified flying object and NOT for Alien Spacecraft.
Sure, it's usually used for the last, but my point is that can very well be ours.

There are plenty of logical reason to believe that there is no ETs at work:
> Conspiracy Theorists like to say that we have alien contacts, but we hide the truth. Funny thing is, they never quite get that, if that was the case, that would mean that the aliens would be in on the conspiracy, they would want to be hidden

> Going by that logic, the idea of UFOs being alien is ridiculous. Don't you think that, if an alien race(s) would want to stay hidden, the last thing they would do is FLY BELOW THE CLOUDS!!??

> If an alien race(s) would have no problem in showing themselves...where are they?

> Some say they don't want to interfere. Well, by that logic, they are making a piss poor job with all the UFO sightings and aliens abductions and alike.

> Then there is the alien abductions.....have you ever read anything about alien abductions or seen any movie about it? An alien race, extremely advanced, capable of interstellar travel......and they SUCK at medical procedures??! Their aliens experiments are awful, amateurish at best. We are 100x more advanced when it comes to medical examinations.
And i particularly like when the abductee say that, among all the examinations, the aliens keep saying telepathically they want to do us no harm...REALLY???!!!!!
So, traumatic and painful experiences are not to meant any harm? So, that how they handshake on their planet? Sex must be horrible...
Click to expand...

If you follow the modern UFO phenomena, there is an interesting evolution. They show up in large numbers right after humans start using atomic weapons. At first, they fly mostly in plain sight, if on the outskirts of civilization, but also over military bases and highly classified research facilities. There are a few sightings in cities, but they're relatively rare, with one very notable exception.

Human planes in the 40's tried to intercept them, but with no luck, and some people even died trying to do so.

But then our technology starts to catch up. Onboard radar starts to become common, and UFO's start to be picked up on radar in the air and on the ground. And supersonic jets start to engage them, like over DC in 1952 (the exception mentioned above).

As the decade goes on, conventional sightings become less rare. UFO's in the air, either fly away quickly or simply vanish when sighted.

I recall one case I read about a French airline crew seeing one near Paris that became transparent, as if cloaking. Really interesting interview with the pilot.
 
Didn't know about the 1952 DC incident (reading about it now), was only aware of the Battle of Los Angeles in 1942.

VictusMortuus said:
I think any case of Alien Abduction is false, if anything volunteers from deep within the government would be a subject for ET to study, and if they were to be working with the government they would know the government would be able to write off any sighting as military activity, and I base my own sighting being ET related because the way they acted in the sky corresponds to a few reports I've read/seen from people who would know if it was top secret government stuff, including former Area 51 workers.
Click to expand...

I think stuff like abductions and cattle mutilation are made up too, some form of sanctioned misinformation perhaps. Easier to let the tinfoil hat brigade distract the general public with wild speculation and be not taken seriously.

I'm more inclined to believe the UFOs are experimental black project aircraft. If the fastest aircraft today is one which was conceived in the 1960s, it's well within the realm of possibility that something faster and stranger is out there.
 
There really isn't enough information on the LA incident to convince me of anything. People thought they saw something, and started shooting at it. Even they didn't know if it was a Japanese fighter, balloon, geese, or a flying saucer.

DC in 1952 is one of the things that changed my mind on UFO's.
 
I'd like to ask an alien-contact conspiracy theorist how they know that they aren't being fed false information.
 
I think you have to look at incidents as they happen.

For example, ironically, people always make jokes about yokels and UFO's. I actually find that those accounts can be among the most credible. Take the Flatwoods incident from 1952. A bunch of rural West Virginians allegedly saw a UFO and an alien. Several were also hospitalized as a result of the encounter (suffering from something akin to mustard gas exposure allegedly).

These were simple people, who probably had very limited access to popular culture. Almost certainly didn't even have a television. None of them sought celebrity. Why would they make up a sighting?
 
Thundercrack85 said:
If you follow the modern UFO phenomena, there is an interesting evolution. They show up in large numbers right after humans start using atomic weapons. At first, they fly mostly in plain sight, if on the outskirts of civilization, but also over military bases and highly classified research facilities. There are a few sightings in cities, but they're relatively rare, with one very notable exception.
Click to expand...
It's irrelevant where they fly, the point is that they fly below the clouds, in other words, all you have to do is look up.
That is ridiculous if you put in perspective that they don't want to show themselves.

All they would need is to fly above the clouds or have some sort of stealth device like invisibility.

Thundercrack85 said:
DC in 1952 is one of the things that changed my mind on UFO's.
Click to expand...
The DC incident is beloved by conspiracy theorists all over, but there is nothing that scream alien as far as i'm concerned.
Their best argument is "we didn't had that kind of technology", but the thing is.........didn't we?
I'm not saying that we did, i'm saying that we don't know.

The DC incident, imo, it's a gigantic false flag, nothing more than that.
For the ones that don't know

False flag describes covert operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups, or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them.
Click to expand...

Let's examine it....
Lights appeared in the sky, they were flying in formation, and all of a sudden they were gone.

Now, let's look at it from the idea of "aliens did it"....
What would be the point in showing themselves....but really not?
They never landed, they never appeared in plain sight...but they flew extremely low for everyone to see???!! It makes no sense.

Now, let's look at it from a false flag perspective....
Population see lights in the sky, they scream aliens and ufos; those lights never land, which will always make us wonder if it was aliens or not.
More even, they appear above the USA CAPITAL, right above the CAPITOL, the building where the where the Congress of the United States meets.
Why didn't the "aliens" flew over someone's house? Not in some other city or another street? Why right above the seat of the US power? Why do UFOs love the USA so much?
Coincidence...

My best guess about this all "alien thing" is that it was a "snowball effect" with no ending in sight.
My analogy is, the rolling of a small ball of snow up a snow-covered hillside. As it rolls the ball will pick up more snow, gaining more mass and surface area, and picking up even more snow and momentum as it rolls along.
When it gets to the top, you just let it roll down the other side, destroying everything in it's path.
In other words, someone wanted people to believe in aliens, so they started to give false information and create a fantastic idea...but then people all over started to believe and the craze grew larger and larger with no end in sight.

I still say that this all alien/ufo craze started with the War of the Worlds radio broadcast on October 30 1938, way before any sightings happened (coincidence?)
Did you know that, not even 2 months later:
On December 19, 1938, Princeton University announced that it was beginning a study of the social and psychological aspects of the panic surrounding "The War of the Worlds" broadcast, with the assistance of a government grant.
Click to expand...
Why was the government interest in the effects of a fake radio broadcast?
 
I find the Citizen Hearing on UFO Disclosure in 2013 fascinating.

[YT]SgucayRlc-U[/YT]
 
Thundercrack85 said:
None of them sought celebrity. Why would they make up a sighting?
Click to expand...
Everyone wants money and fame.

Take the Betty and Barney Hill incident, the most famous alien abduction and the first one to be made famous.
Read this

Tom Lombardo is a well respected poet with a bachelor’s degree in engineering and a master’s degree in journalism (among other degrees). In the 1970’s, Tom was a “budding journalist” in Cincinnati. At the time, he was also good friends with Kathleen Marden, Betty Hill’s niece.

In 1974, Kathleen suggested to Tom that he should interview her “Aunty Eunice” about her UFO abduction experience. In fact, most of the documentation reveals that Kathleen herself played a very significant part in not only collaborating with Betty Hill in her abduction research in subsequent years, but she also had a large hand in the promotion of the Betty and Barney Hill abduction story – setting up this interview with a journalist is only one example.

In the apartment, Tom questioned Betty on the record about her experiences in 1961 and all of the details surrounding the Lancaster UFO sighting and abduction experience she had with her husband Barney. The details of that abduction experience has been distributed throughout Ufology folklore for many years, so I won’t recount that part of the discussion here.

Suffice to say, Tom was impressed by her story, although his description of it in the article has a very unbiased, almost dry. As I was reading this 2007 PDF article, I was struck by a few parallels with some of the elements that were used throughout the Ufology MJ-12 folklore distributed by hoaxers throughout the 1980s, such as the “book” that one of the aliens almost offered Betty as a gift, but took back before they parted company.

The most significant part of the interview is revealed at the very end of this article, where Tom describes what happened after he turned off the voice recorder. He writes:

“After I turned off the tape recorder in that 1974 interview, Betty Hill lit another cigarette, drew deeply, and exhaled. Then in her gravelly voice, she asked: “Is that thing off now”? I assured her it was. And she said something that ruined it all for me: “I’m going to make my million off this story.” She mentioned that James Earl Jones had taken an interest in her story, and that he wanted to play the role of Barney, who was African-American.

She clearly intended her comment to be off the record, but now that she is dead, the bond of reporter confidentiality no longer exists.”
This movie eventually took shape in 1975 in the released for TV film A UFO Incident, starring Estelle Parsons and James Earl Jones. Additionally, author John Fuller wrote an account of the abduction experience in “An Interrupted Journey”.

What is the most fascinating is that before this 1975 media blitz, the field of Ufology and the cultural concept of “aliens” looked nothing like it did after the distribution and promotion of the Betty and Barny Hill story. As Tom accurately points out in the conclusion of his article.

“Before Betty Hill, we had Robby the Robot in the movie Forbidden Planet, Klaatu and Gort in the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still, and other outlandish 1950s images of aliens, but once Betty Hill described The Grays, they took root. They seem to live on and on. E.T. herself was modeled on The Grays, and you can find little alien dolls that replicate Betty Hill’s Grays in children’s toy stores today. They are “cutified” for kids, and their very appearance lends them an aura of kindness that diminishes any sort of threat.”
In fact, the fraudulent UFO activities throughout the 1980s and 1990s really grew feet and took shape during the 1970s, after Betty and Barney Hill described the beings while under hypnosis. Ufologists in later years labeled these beings as “the Greys.”

Was it all a dream or did something real happen to Betty and Barney, but they grossly misinterpreted the experience? Betty’s reputation and level of respect throughout the UFO/abduction community was unsurpassed by any other abductee after her, because people expected her motivation was nothing more than to tell the truth about the experience. However, now that you know she expected “millions” from her story, how does that impact her credibility?

Her shocking statement would imply that the money was what was on the forefront of her thoughts at least during 1975. For me – that changes everything.
Click to expand...

Take it with a grain of salt, but the point is...never trust no one until you know what's their agenda, what's their goal in all of that.
For all we know, every single testimony is made up and witness is an actor.
 
Well, if you want me to speculate. I think if it was aliens, the DC incident was them trying to send a message to the government of one of the planet's two super powers. I have no idea what that might be.

But who knows? Maybe some alien pilots got drunk and thought it would be fun to buzz the White House.

It's funny you should mention War of the Worlds, because that comes up in the director of Project Blue Book's memoirs. It was on everyone's mind in 1947, during the first big flying saucer wave.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
Well, if you want me to speculate. I think if it was aliens, the DC incident was them trying to send a message to the government of one of the planet's two super powers. I have no idea what that might be.

But who knows? Maybe some alien pilots got drunk and thought it would be fun to buzz the White House.

It's funny you should mention War of the Worlds, because that comes up in the director of Project Blue Book's memoirs. It was on everyone's mind in 1947, during the first big flying saucer wave.
Click to expand...

:lmao:
 
Isildur´s Heir;30728027 said:
Everyone wants money and fame.

Take the Betty and Barney Hill incident, the most famous alien abduction and the first one to be made famous.
Read this



Take it with a grain of salt, but the point is...never trust no one until you know what's their agenda, what's their goal in all of that.
For all we know, every single testimony is made up and witness is an actor.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of Lombardo or that interview. If you could point me towards that recording, I'd be interested to look into it.

I do know that Betty got really obsessed with aliens and UFOlogy, especially after her husband died. Which I can understand. She clearly had an emotional connection to it, and it changed her life (made up, or not).

She also seemed to be losing it later in life. I recall she claimed that aliens visited her later, or left her things in her house, which even her supporters thought was crazy.

But even if she did, I don't think you can paint everyone with that accusation.

I have read more of these cases than most people, and yes, there were charlatans. But there were many, many more people who said their piece, never recanted, never got more than a newspaper article (if that), and quietly lived out their lives.
 
Sightings have been going on since long before War of the Worlds. What that broadcast did was cause mass delusion that resulted in a lot of false sightings and abduction stories.
 
VictusMortuus said:
Sightings have been going on since long before War of the Worlds. What that broadcast did was cause mass delusion that resulted in a lot of false sightings and abduction stories.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can say that, since the mass sightings started ten years after the broadcast, and alien abduction was virtually unheard of prior to 1961.

You had sightings prior, but nothing like in the 40's and 50's.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
I've never heard of Lombardo or that interview. If you could point me towards that recording, I'd be interested to look into it.
Click to expand...
I have no recording.
I just found it on a conspiracy site once.
Here:

http://www.topsecretwriters.com/2009/10/abductee-betty-hill-expected-millions-for-alien-story/

Then again, in a comment to that article, someone wrote:

> Betty and Barney Hill created “the Greys” while under hypnosis in the 1970s
Not true. It is clear from reading Interrupted Journey, they did not describe greys. Also, here is Betty in 1999 (YT video)
The interviewer asks her about greys. “No, no, no. They were a form of human being.” She describes them. Interviewer asks, nothing like the classic greys? She answers, “I’ve never seen those. I don’t know what they’re talking about.”

But, at the same time, in the reply to that comment, another poster said that

> Furthermore, they did in fact describe the greys first in their hypnotic descriptions. Please reference transcripts of their sessions in 1964 with Boston psychiatrist Dr Benjamin Simon where they describe the beings as approximately 5ft 4inches tall, no ears, slit-like mouths, small noses, cat-like eyes that extended toward the side of the heads, broad foreheads and a small chin.

So, in the end, Betty Hill changed her description...
That's why i said "take it with a grain of salt".
The point is, don't believe in everyone since you have no idea what is their agenda.

Thundercrack85 said:
I have read more of these cases than most people, and yes, there were charlatans. But there were many, many more people who said their piece, never recanted, never got more than a newspaper article (if that), and quietly lived out their lives.
Click to expand...
Sure, but then again, it can be anything.
The mind plays tricks on us, and many time people see what they want to see.
 
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