The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - Part 39

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]505859[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]504663[/split]

 

[Zantera]

With the exception of Inter (where Mourinho left after he won the treble) Mourinho has met the same fate in pretty much every club. He always gets the titles, but then manages to drive the train into a wall and is fired eventually. Bringing him on instead of LvG, I know we would win a title or two in the next 2-3 years, but if you look further into the future than that, Mourinho is really not a manager you get for the long run, and that's what we want in Man United I guess. Fergie really spoiled us.

 

[DeadPresident]

I don't think Mourinho would win the league in his first or second seasons with United even if he did come. This is the same Mourinho that said he "can't win the league without a proper striker" - while Fernando Torres, Eto'o and Demba Ba were in his squad. What's he going to do with a shot Wayne Rooney and a young Martial?

Also, in terms of United's current problem of playing boring football, I find it hilariously ignorant for people to be calling to sack LvG only to replace him with the guy who brings on Kurt Zouma for a forward to protect a one goal lead. Because I'm assuming that's the "Attack, attack, attack" the fans so desperately want?

The only manager that makes sense is Guardiola, last I checked everyone was fainting and eulogizing over Bayern's performances so far this season. He seems like like a far better bet than the guy that just ran the current champions into the ground, while throwing sundry staff/players under the bus. Ancelotti is also a solid option, but he doesn't really have a history of turning **** into gold either, so he'd need a pretty big transfer window in any case.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Its certainly going to be interesting to see where the manager/sociopath ends up.

Mourinho too. Arf.

 

[TheCommissioner]

good thing Liverpool snatched up Klopp then

 

[Zantera]

I don't think Mourinho would win the league in his first or second seasons with United even if he did come. This is the same Mourinho that said he "can't win the league without a proper striker" - while Fernando Torres, Eto'o and Demba Ba were in his squad. What's he going to do with a shot Wayne Rooney and a young Martial?

Also, in terms of United's current problem of playing boring football, I find it hilariously ignorant for people to be calling to sack LvG only to replace him with the guy who brings on Kurt Zouma for a forward to protect a one goal lead. Because I'm assuming that's the "Attack, attack, attack" the fans so desperately want?

The only manager that makes sense is Guardiola, last I checked everyone was fainting and eulogizing over Bayern's performances so far this season. He seems like like a far better bet than the guy that just ran the current champions into the ground, while throwing sundry staff/players under the bus. Ancelotti is also a solid option, but he doesn't really have a history of turning **** into gold either, so he'd need a pretty big transfer window in any case.

I've never bought into the hype of Pep "Silver platter" Guardiola. In Barcelona he took over a team where most of the job had already been done, and with Bayern they were arguably even better the season before he took over. I don't think you can point at anything he has done in his whole career and say "that's proof that he would turn MU around". Don't get me wrong, it's not like I would be upset if we got Pep, that's still an improvement over LvG, but I think the main issue is the idea of playing possession football with players that just aren't up for it. You can play like that if you're Barcelona or Bayern Munich, but you can't expect that from players like Lingard or Fellaini.

Mourinho would not mean more entertaining football, but I think he has a great effect (initially) on teams, and his biggest strength is taking something that doesn't look amazing on paper and shaping it into something great. Just look at Porto or Inter. He made Inter a great team that surprised all of us and won Champions League, due to hard work and getting 100% out of players like Milito, who wasn't necessarily a star player before Mourinho took over. Porto was another case of hard work and winning with a team that wasn't the best on paper. I think with Mourinho he would get more out of our squad and he would shape it to be a title contender, but in the long run his flame always seem to run out.

Ancelotti is a more interesting option IMO because he gets his teams playing a fairly direct football which is a big difference to what we are doing now, over complicating things by passing the ball sideways for 5 minutes before moving forward. I remember Chelsea under Ancelotti and just how good they were, he really managed to utilize their firepower and the team was really good, maybe even the best Chelsea has been since Abramovich took over. But I agree that Man United would be a big challenge, and Ancelotti would need to make some tough transfers to shape the team, and it's not an easy task. But the football would be great watching, I think.

Overall I just really dislike the possession-football and bringing in Pep instead of LvG would not change any of that, and if anything it would get even worse. If you look at how Barcelona are playing now, compared to how they played with Pep, it's much more linear now, they go forward faster, simpler and while still maintaining that nice technique and skillful passing, they get to goal chances fast and simple, and score a lot of goals. I'm so tired of these managers who thinks a 80% possession game means you dominate the game even if you lose by 2-1, and I'd much rather take the fast paced/get to chances quick type of play, like Dortmund at their best under Klopp. Mourinho wouldn't do any of those two styles, but I think he could implement a few interesting changes that hopefully someone else (in 3-4 years) could continue building on.

Oh well sorry for the long post!

 

[DeadPresident]

I've never bought into the hype of Pep "Silver platter" Guardiola. In Barcelona he took over a team where most of the job had already been done, and with Bayern they were arguably even better the season before he took over. I don't think you can point at anything he has done in his whole career and say "that's proof that he would turn MU around". Don't get me wrong, it's not like I would be upset if we got Pep, that's still an improvement over LvG, but I think the main issue is the idea of playing possession football with players that just aren't up for it. You can play like that if you're Barcelona or Bayern Munich, but you can't expect that from players like Lingard or Fellaini.

This is a myth people refer to because they can't really criticize anything else about Guardiola yet. Mourinho inherited the second best on paper squad I've ever seen at Madrid, did **** all with it. Heynckes inherited the finished product from van Gaal the season before he won the CL with Bayern. Ancelotti inherited the finished product from Mourinho when he won the CL with Madrid. That "criticism" holds no weight, because if you want to apply it to Guardiola you have to apply it to any manager that ever did well without revamping a team entirely.

Also, I don't think you've watched much of Guardiola's teams when they're playing his actual style if you associate only possession with it.

Mourinho would not mean more entertaining football, but I think he has a great effect (initially) on teams, and his biggest strength is taking something that doesn't look amazing on paper and shaping it into something great. Just look at Porto or Inter. He made Inter a great team that surprised all of us and won Champions League, due to hard work and getting 100% out of players like Milito, who wasn't necessarily a star player before Mourinho took over. Porto was another case of hard work and winning with a team that wasn't the best on paper. I think with Mourinho he would get more out of our squad and he would shape it to be a title contender, but in the long run his flame always seem to run out.

Porto was 02/03, Inter was 2009. His Inter team doesn't deserve to be romanticized as a massive underdog like you're doing either. At the time Julio Cesar was a great keeper, Maicon, Lucio, Cambiasso, Sneijder, Eto'o and Zanetti were all performing very well. It's not like he went to Parma and got them to the CL final.He did fantastic jobs with them, but his most recent position is one in which he took reigning champions and put them in line for missing out on Europe completely.

Ancelotti is a more interesting option IMO because he gets his teams playing a fairly direct football which is a big difference to what we are doing now, over complicating things by passing the ball sideways for 5 minutes before moving forward. I remember Chelsea under Ancelotti and just how good they were, he really managed to utilize their firepower and the team was really good, maybe even the best Chelsea has been since Abramovich took over. But I agree that Man United would be a big challenge, and Ancelotti would need to make some tough transfers to shape the team, and it's not an easy task. But the football would be great watching, I think.

Like any other manager, Ancelotti would require a good squad. Everything about United competing at a high level again first and foremost requires a good squad. There is no club team that has done much of worth without having the 1st/2nd/3rd best squad in whatever competition they won, and United don't have that. We can debate which manager would be best until the cows come home, fact of the matter is unless SAF at the peak of his powers somehow comes back, United won't win anything until they add to their squad.

Overall I just really dislike the possession-football and bringing in Pep instead of LvG would not change any of that, and if anything it would get even worse. If you look at how Barcelona are playing now, compared to how they played with Pep, it's much more linear now, they go forward faster, simpler and while still maintaining that nice technique and skillful passing, they get to goal chances fast and simple, and score a lot of goals. I'm so tired of these managers who thinks a 80% possession game means you dominate the game even if you lose by 2-1, and I'd much rather take the fast paced/get to chances quick type of play, like Dortmund at their best under Klopp. Mourinho wouldn't do any of those two styles, but I think he could implement a few interesting changes that hopefully someone else (in 3-4 years) could continue building on.

Oh well sorry for the long post!

You're projecting LvG's worst performances onto "all possession football managers". I honestly don't think you've seen much of Guardiola's teams when they're on song, or if you have you're deliberately forgetting it, because possession isn't the first thing you notice. Have a look at his debut season with Barcelona, they played precisely like Barcelona are playing now. They were direct and the transition through phases was extremely fast, exactly like what you're seeing with Bayern now that he's added the likes of Douglas Costa and Kingsley Coman to his options. Boring possession football exists, but that's not what Guardiola's about - you're referring to the period he was reshaping Bayern's squad. His style is generally patient, but when the team builds up it's usually very quickly. You can use a manager's "worst" season to define him if you'd like, but then it means we need to start referring to Mourinho as nothing more than a charlatan that would've got Chelsea relegated if he stayed.

Is this really "slow, possession" football?

[YT]5ZmwY7rucWA[/YT]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I've never bought into the hype of Pep "Silver platter" Guardiola. In Barcelona he took over a team where most of the job had already been done, and with Bayern they were arguably even better the season before he took over. I don't think you can point at anything he has done in his whole career and say "that's proof that he would turn MU around". Don't get me wrong, it's not like I would be upset if we got Pep, that's still an improvement over LvG, but I think the main issue is the idea of playing possession football with players that just aren't up for it. You can play like that if you're Barcelona or Bayern Munich, but you can't expect that from players like Lingard or Fellaini.

Mourinho would not mean more entertaining football, but I think he has a great effect (initially) on teams, and his biggest strength is taking something that doesn't look amazing on paper and shaping it into something great. Just look at Porto or Inter. He made Inter a great team that surprised all of us and won Champions League, due to hard work and getting 100% out of players like Milito, who wasn't necessarily a star player before Mourinho took over. Porto was another case of hard work and winning with a team that wasn't the best on paper. I think with Mourinho he would get more out of our squad and he would shape it to be a title contender, but in the long run his flame always seem to run out.

Ancelotti is a more interesting option IMO because he gets his teams playing a fairly direct football which is a big difference to what we are doing now, over complicating things by passing the ball sideways for 5 minutes before moving forward. I remember Chelsea under Ancelotti and just how good they were, he really managed to utilize their firepower and the team was really good, maybe even the best Chelsea has been since Abramovich took over. But I agree that Man United would be a big challenge, and Ancelotti would need to make some tough transfers to shape the team, and it's not an easy task. But the football would be great watching, I think.

Overall I just really dislike the possession-football and bringing in Pep instead of LvG would not change any of that, and if anything it would get even worse. If you look at how Barcelona are playing now, compared to how they played with Pep, it's much more linear now, they go forward faster, simpler and while still maintaining that nice technique and skillful passing, they get to goal chances fast and simple, and score a lot of goals. I'm so tired of these managers who thinks a 80% possession game means you dominate the game even if you lose by 2-1, and I'd much rather take the fast paced/get to chances quick type of play, like Dortmund at their best under Klopp. Mourinho wouldn't do any of those two styles, but I think he could implement a few interesting changes that hopefully someone else (in 3-4 years) could continue building on.

Oh well sorry for the long post!

That is a myth about Pep at Barca. He had to change the team, and did it in the most successful way possibly.

Everyone who knows about football who has seen Pep coach says he is a legit genius. The management at Bayern are legit in awe of him. Hard to argue with that. Pep's teams use possession better then anyone else has in football history. He is nothing like LvG.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Guus Hiddink will manage Chelsea for the rest of the season. Isn't this his second interim management at Chelsea ?

 

[DeadPresident]

United line-up: DDG, Jones, Smalling, Blind, Young, Carrick, Fellaini, Memphis, Mata, Martial, Rooney. Bench: Romero, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Varela, McNair, Jackson, Pereira.

Chelsea confirm they've appointed Hiddink, but he won't be in charge today although he'll be at the game. It'll be interesting to note the change (if any) in their play, if the team is suddenly flying in Mourinho's absence it'll be hard evidence of him holding them back. If there's no change there's probably a little more going on with the players, a lot of whom have looked fatigued in general.

 

[DeadPresident]

Guus Hiddink will manage Chelsea for the rest of the season. Isn't this his second interim management at Chelsea ?

Yep, he replaced Scolari last time out. He has the highest win percentage of any Chelsea manager, and apparently the players were quite fond of him last time. Skysports says he'll be at the stadium but not in charge of today's game though.

Although this season has shown everyone legitimately can beat everyone else, Chelsea should at least get a point against Sunderland today. The players will probably play with a lot more freedom today.

 

[BlackFox]

Hope United can do something/anything positive today. Lawd do we need it.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't understand why Martial is still being played out wide. It's frustrating.

 

[DeadPresident]

Hope United can do something/anything positive today. Lawd do we need it.

I second this. We're due a bit of an upturn.

 

[BlackFox]

Lol Chelsea 2 up within ten minutes of their game. Clearly their players downed tools with Jose, modern footballers are shocking in their attitude sometimes.

 

[DeadPresident]

Lol Chelsea 2 up within ten minutes of their game. Clearly their players downed tools with Jose, modern footballers are shocking in their attitude sometimes.

The money clubs treat the players like equipment though, so I guess they shouldn't be surprised when the mercs revolt.

 

[Darthphere]

This is laughable.

 

[DeadPresident]

1-0 down...United need to take the kid gloves off.

 

[Darthphere]

I think Depay, Fellaini and Rooney are competing to see who has the worst first touch.

 

[BlackFox]

LVG on his last legs here, there is no excuse for this.

 

[TheCommissioner]

the crowd shots are great

 

[DeadPresident]

Damn there is zero confidence in this team. Second half needs Herrera and Schneiderlin.

 

[Zantera]

Everton - Leicester is a pretty interesting game so far, could go either way really. I don't mind either teams, but I'd be happy if Leicester won since it would be preferable if an underdog team won instead of Arsenal or City.

We won't have anything to say about the title anyways, it's another home game at Old Trafford against a bottom team and we won't get 3 points. On the plus side I stopped expecting good things and I feel that it makes it easier to cope with our results. We've only conceded one goal in first half which is good.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Norwich is right up in their business


at Old Trafford