The Phantom, anyone? The original inspiration for Batman

[†~AntiChrist~†]

Lex Luthor?? Noway Zane was great in it...
A remake would be alright..But maybe a sequel would be better..

 

[Cyrusbales]

Didn't Kane always say that Batman was a mixture between, Zorro, Phantom, Spider, and Dick Tracey

 

[November Rain]

quite a few of batman's rogue gallery have a batman villain mood about them.

 

[rogue trooper]

Didn't Kane always say that Batman was a mixture between, Zorro, Phantom, Spider, and Dick Tracey

.....as well as The Shadow, Doc Savage, and Sherlock Holmes.

 

[†~AntiChrist~†]

Does anyone ever wonder why they didnt make a sequel??
The movie was pretty popular..

 

[Kent Allard]

Didn't Kane always say that Batman was a mixture between, Zorro, Phantom, Spider, and Dick Tracey

.....as well as The Shadow, Doc Savage, and Sherlock Holmes.

What Kane said, and what is pretty clear reality does not match up.

If you take an honest look at facts, while there are few pieces from a couple other heroes, it's pretty clear that The Shadow was THE template for the Batman. In fact, the very first Batman story took the plot straight from a Shadow story.

Here's an excellent write-up on it all:

Part 1:
http://www.comicmix.com/news/2007/06/24/the-case-of-the-chemical-syndicate/


Part 2:
http://www.comicmix.com/news/2007/06/25/the-shadow-knows/

 

[†~AntiChrist~†]

hmm..

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Does anyone ever wonder why they didnt make a sequel??
The movie was pretty popular..

Exactly. Pretty popular. It did not make much money.

 

[Warhammer]

The movie was supposed to turn into a franchise. Unfortunately, it didn't make jack s*** at the box office. Billy Zane must have been upset, especially with all the time he put into the whole, etc. He'd be an A-lister if this was a success. It's one of my favorite movies.

 

[thejon93]

I loved the original The Phantom movie with Billy Zane. Totally under-rated if you ask me because it was just entertaining in everyway possible. I loved the opening sequence with the truck that The Phantom was chasing after, awesome. Gotta get that movie. Anyways, I'd love to see another film inspired by the comics made because... well, why not?!

 

[Kevin Roegele]

The problem with The Phantom movie is that the audience expects Batman and they get Indiana Jones lite.

 

[Nepenthes]

The problem with Phantom is that you can't push the concept to its limits without coming off as tacky, shallow, childish, colonial, etc. He's a white imposter demi-god solving tribal and colonial problems in Africa; that's a whole lot of baggage Indiana Jones DOES not have right there. To demonstrate what i mean....imagine the movie Blood Diamond if Leonardo DiCaprio was wearing a purple bodysuit the whole time and punching child soldiers with a magic ring. That's what prohibits the Phantom property from doing anything really interesting or meaningful, it can only be innocent pulpy action and as Kevin just pointed out we already have Indiana, Tomb Raider and a shiitload of other hero properties for that.

Phantom belongs in the early 20th century with Alain Quatermain and Tarzan, and I say this as a huge fan of the Ghost Who Walks. Unless some geeked-out genius wants to write a metaphor for white paternalism and African modernisation under the guise of a jungle superhero story...I'd LOVE to see that but good luck selling it to a studio or mainstream audience.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I dunno, I don't see much of the connections between Batman and Phantom. This is actually the first I hear of it, to be honest.

Batman is MOSTLY Zorro inspired. The batcave, the grandfather clock interance, having a black speeding vehicle, being a wealthy socialite, acting like a bafoon laides man to conceal his alterego, wearing black, being agile and quick while being smart enough as well as strong.......lots of Zorro is in Batman.

I don't think you can say any one reference mostly influences Batman. While you make good points, you also have to take into account that Batman has always been a great detective, heck the comics that he first appeared in were called detective comics, so I think that you'd have to give just as much credit to Sherlock Holmes.

Not only that, the creature of the night persona has also always (sans the campy 50-60's time) been a prominent feature of Batman, and that comes from the Shadow, not Zorro.

Really, I'd say Batman draws equally from many sources.

 

[Kent Allard]

I don't think you can say any one reference mostly influences Batman. While you make good points, you also have to take into account that Batman has always been a great detective, heck the comics that he first appeared in were called detective comics, so I think that you'd have to give just as much credit to Sherlock Holmes.

Not only that, the creature of the night persona has also always (sans the campy 50-60's time) been a prominent feature of Batman, and that comes from the Shadow, not Zorro.

Really, I'd say Batman draws equally from many sources.

Like I mentioned a few posts up, if you take clear look at the evidence it's amazingly apparent that The Shadow was THE archetype, the template, for the Batman. Certainly there are a few aspects inspired by other characters - but the Shadow remains the dominant inspiration.

The very first Batman story even took it's plot directly from a Shadow story.

Comic Mix as a great article about it, well worth reading:

Part 1:
http://www.comicmix.com/news/2007/06/24/the-case-of-the-chemical-syndicate/


Part 2:
http://www.comicmix.com/news/2007/06/25/the-shadow-knows/

 

[Nepenthes]

Yep Shadow was definitely the central influence he was the first hero of the time who took the form of darkness, mystery and outward villany, a "benign Dracula". This is what Batman is built on, the terrifying avenger. Stuff like the secret identity, being a rich playboy and the crimefighting methods are all pretty secondary to that - the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro were both rich barons before The Shadow, using their own signature tactics and such. Scarlet Pimpernel is responsible for the whole lot of modern heroes actually, through Zorro, and then Doc Savage, Shadow and the rest.

The Phantom was the first pulp hero to wear tights, which is a pretty major development. The batcave also came from the Skullcave. That's about all Batman is owed to the Phantom.

 

[rogue trooper]

Yep Shadow was definitely the central influence he was the first hero of the time who took the form of darkness, mystery and outward villany, a "benign Dracula". This is what Batman is built on, the terrifying avenger. Stuff like the secret identity, being a rich playboy and the crimefighting methods are all pretty secondary to that - the Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro were both rich barons before The Shadow, using their own signature tactics and such. Scarlet Pimpernel is responsible for the whole lot of modern heroes actually, through Zorro, and then Doc Savage, Shadow and the rest.

The Phantom was the first pulp hero to wear tights, which is a pretty major development. The batcave also came from the Skullcave. That's about all Batman is owed to the Phantom.

.....and also the vow Bruce Wayne made as a kid to fight crime and avenge his parents' death, that came from The Phantom when he made a vow as a kid to fight piracy, greed and cruelty in all its forms. Oh, and also the white blank eyes, and the grey(purplish) thights came from The Ghost Who Walks.

 

[rogue trooper]

The problem with Phantom is that you can't push the concept to its limits without coming off as tacky, shallow, childish, colonial, etc. He's a white imposter demi-god solving tribal and colonial problems in Africa; that's a whole lot of baggage Indiana Jones DOES not have right there. To demonstrate what i mean....imagine the movie Blood Diamond if Leonardo DiCaprio was wearing a purple bodysuit the whole time and punching child soldiers with a magic ring. That's what prohibits the Phantom property from doing anything really interesting or meaningful, it can only be innocent pulpy action and as Kevin just pointed out we already have Indiana, Tomb Raider and a shiitload of other hero properties for that.

Phantom belongs in the early 20th century with Alain Quatermain and Tarzan, and I say this as a huge fan of the Ghost Who Walks. Unless some geeked-out genius wants to write a metaphor for white paternalism and African modernisation under the guise of a jungle superhero story...I'd LOVE to see that but good luck selling it to a studio or mainstream audience.

Let's see how the Mandrake film fares at the box office when it is released. If successful, I'm quite positive a Phantom film will follow.

 

[bullets]

Batman rules. The phantom movie didnt do to well , they could try again though.

 

[Nepenthes]

Let's see how the Mandrake film fares at the box office when it is released. If successful, I'm quite positive a Phantom film will follow.

what? why the hell would you make a movie of Mandrake? . no one knows him and he's embarrisingly generic. interesting nonetheless, i have no idea whether the same people own both rights though. and really the properties are as different as chalk and cheese - the Phantom being a white hero in Africa and all the issues that involves, as I explained.

there was recently a writer working on a modern version of Phantom. Same writer who did a few die hard films and some other fairly succesful action movies which i forget. luckily he was taken off. the thought of a modern phantom movie is just so fcken dire.

 

[rogue trooper]

what? why the hell would you make a movie of Mandrake? . no one knows him and he's embarrisingly generic. interesting nonetheless, i have no idea whether the same people own both rights though. and really the properties are as different as chalk and cheese - the Phantom being a white hero in Africa and all the issues that involves, as I explained.

there was recently a writer working on a modern version of Phantom. Same writer who did a few die hard films and some other fairly succesful action movies which i forget. luckily he was taken off. the thought of a modern phantom movie is just so fcken dire.

Obviously an updating on the characters will more than likely be made. Why make a movie of Mandrake or The Phantom? You also might as well ask, why make a movie of Sin City, 300, The Spirit, Transformers or Hellboy? I say, Why not?

 

[Dark Sentinel]

ok this may be kind of fanfic-ish, but here's how I'd (re)do the next Phantom installment (which I call Lee Falk's The Phantom):

• Begin the film in similar fashion to the 96 Phantom, explaining the origins of the Phantom and how the myth grows and grows into a continuing legend.
• Bring it up to date. Keep the essence of the character, but bring him out of the '30s and into the Post 9/11 era to make him more relatable to the audience.
• Start out with Kit Walker in a similar position to Peter Parker in SM1: somewhat of a social outcast..not so much a geek, but more of a brooding type of kid. Diana Palmer is still his love interest, but she's the "unattainable," similar to Mary Jane. However, there's more of a connection between them as friends, despite his crush. His father is still the Phantom in Bangalla, but this is unknown to Kit (but is known to his mother.)
• In the beginning of the film, Kit's father dies and Kit is whisked away to Bangalla to assume the role of the Phantom..this would also create more romantic tension between Diana and Kit when he returns.
• Bring the Singh (or Sengh) Brotherhood up to date as well: they've evolved since their pirating days, and are now a terrorist faction of the Chinese Triads, and have infiltrated several businesses and even the NY Mafia. Make it hit closer to home.
• When Kit returns to NY after ten or so years, now he is the suave, sophisticated Kit we know from the early comics and the 1996 film.
• Make the story more realistic, but keep that sense of awe that the 96 film had. My idea is that the Singh Brotherhood is looking for an artifact called the Ghost's Skull, which is "immense, if not limitless, in value", possibly adorned with diamonds and emeralds, gold, silver, what have you. This is what brings Kit back to NY, because the skull is that of the first Phantom. Either that, or he's just doing a "routine" investigation of the Singh Brotherhood which turns out to be much bigger than he previously thought.
• There needs to be a romantic struggle between Kit and Diana. Whether it's she never knew how he felt about her and why is he choosing ten years later to tell her, or whatever, there needs to be something to develop this relationship.
• The suit...nothing needs to be said. This is one of the elements that the '96 film got dead on..they expanded on the detail..I especially liked the use of a slightly lighter material to get the "skull" impression on the chest and torso...very nice touch, and it could be used as a nod or homage to that film.
• As for the villain, I suggest an original. Since the Singh Brotherhood are the main antagonists, I think that it's only appropriate that the principal villain for a modern take on the Phantom mythos is the leader of the Singhs. The name Victor Singh has a nice villainous ring to it. Maybe a Ken Wattanabe or Chow Yun-Fat type of actor is the best to play him. He isn't hesitant to kill or maim even the most loyal of his advisors, and he's immensely wealthy, having inherited several generations of the Singhs' wealth.
• However, I do like the idea of using a more physical antagonist in the form of another villain, this one a secondary villain named Cheng Lao. This guy is Victor Singh's go-to guy for a job-well-done. If you imagine Kit Walker's/The Phantom's fighting style as that of a toned-down Arnold, very brutal and heavy, then Cheng Lao is very much his opposite, something similar to Jet Li or Jackie Chan: very acrobatic and fluid; the perfect counterbalance for The Phantom.
• I like the idea of a final confrontation taking place at sea, facing off against Victor Singh on his personal yacht (possibly after Victor Singh has discovered the Phantom's identity and captured Diana..an exchange for Diana and the Ghost's Skull?) Also, it brings the Singh Brotherhood back to the sea, since they started out as pirates centuries before.

That's pretty much how i'd do it. Obviously theres much more than just what i've put down here, and i'll no doubt put it in the screenplay i'm about to write, but this is the bare minimum. Obviously, this is a liberal interpretation, but it's one that i think could become very iconic, a la The Crow.

opinions?

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I think The Phantom movie is confusing. It has the genre conventions of an old-fashioned adventure quest movie, jungles, wild animals, 1930s....but the main character is what we consider today a superhero.

If you imagine an Indiana Jones movie but with Spidey or Batman instead, it would be weird.

I think a Phantom movie could work, but I'm not sure how.

 

[Warhammer]

That looks like Ra's Al Ghul.

 

[Nepenthes]

Obviously an updating on the characters will more than likely be made. Why make a movie of Mandrake or The Phantom? You also might as well ask, why make a movie of Sin City, 300, The Spirit, Transformers or Hellboy? I say, Why not?

Sure but you have to admit there's an inherant difference in adapting properties like 300 and Mandrake. One is a magician in a top hat nobody knows, the other is guys with swords chopping heads off - very easy to sell. Mandrake is obscure for a reason; he's boring and campy and indistinct. This movie will have to be a comedy. Anyway, it doesn't matter, good luck to it.

ok this may be kind of fanfic-ish, but here's how I'd (re)do the next Phantom installment (which I call Lee Falk's The Phantom):

cool, some interesting commets here. I'll get back when i have a chance

and true Kevin a Phatom movie has to walk a tightrope

 

[Dark Sentinel]

cool, some interesting commets here. I'll get back when i have a chance

thanks man, i've had those ideas for a long time