Comics The Return of Slott

[moraldeficiency]

Such as....

Kraven's last hunt, the death of harry, return of the sinister six, the 9/11 issue, new avengers arc, the original venom stories, the mutant agenda (I think that was the name of the story with the beast discussing what a child between Pete and MJ would be like), the last sensational annual, the last stand, acts of vengence come to mind right away.

As does Reign and Requiem for alternate realities.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Kraven's last hunt, the death of harry, return of the sinister six, the 9/11 issue, new avengers arc, the original venom stories, the mutant agenda (I think that was the name of the story with the beast discussing what a child between Pete and MJ would be like), the last sensational annual, the last stand, acts of vengence come to mind right away.

As does Reign and Requiem for alternate realities.

How many of these are great because of the marriage though? KLH, Harry and Reign are the only ones that I can see.

How are the Return of the Sinester Six [Which Return BTW?] and the New Avengers Arc great exactly?

 

[moraldeficiency]

How many of these are great because of the marriage though? KLH, Harry and Reign are the only ones that I can see.

How are the Return of the Sinester Six [Which Return BTW?] and the New Avengers Arc great exactly?

the sinister six arc is the only one which didn't use the marriage as an important point.

Return is the second with ock almost taking over/killing the world.

From the others- the mutant agenda was based on Pete and MJ and the problems they might have with a child, the original venom stories had a lot to do with MJ as the recently married wife, the annual was entirely about the marriage, the last stand had MJ saving Pete's life twice and figuring out osborn, in acts of vengence pete used MJ as a spring board to try and make sense of the Uni Force, 9/11 was well 9/11.

But I think you miss the point that the original statement was asking which great spider stories came after the marriage not which great spider stories came out because of the marriage. It's not like the classic spider-man stories before this were great strictly because he was single, so you're kinda asking for more than was originally spoken about.

Well greatness can only be defined as personal opinion and these are mine. The sinister six always make for greatness IMO because it's the defination of Pete going against all odds and coming out on top. Plus I love the interactions between the villians, the infighting, backstabbing and games they play.

As for the New Avengers, let's see.... It's definately Pete against the odds. It made hydra look actually rather scary and with a better function then I've seen done in a very long time. Evil avenger knock offs fighting Pete is a winning concept to me. It showed Pete actually using his brain to solve things. It brought in the NA and showed them as a team better than in the actual NA issues. The ending was gripping and awesome with the comparison to bucky, a danger that seemed more real and possible than most (well thought out hydra plan) and ending with the NA saving Pete showing why the team is important.

 

[iloveclones]

Of all the ones mentioned, I would only accept the Spec Annual as a really good "married" story.(And I would hardly call it a classic, just a really good one-shot) All of the other ones, you substitute "girlfriend" for "wife" and you have the same exact story, with the same exact resonance. (One exception: I don't really remember the Mutant Agenda...who can keep up with those rascally mutants....so it mya have been critical to the story, I don't remember)

And I feel it's perfectly valid to bring this up, because I hear a lot of people saying these new stories could be told with a married Peter. And I don't dispute that one iota. But it's also true in reverse with those older "married" stories.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Of all the ones mentioned, I would only accept the Spec Annual as a really good "married" story.(And I would hardly call it a classic, just a really good one-shot) All of the other ones, you substitute "girlfriend" for "wife" and you have the same exact story, with the same exact resonance. (One exception: I don't really remember the Mutant Agenda...who can keep up with those rascally mutants....so it mya have been critical to the story, I don't remember)

And I feel it's perfectly valid to bring this up, because I hear a lot of people saying these new stories could be told with a married Peter. And I don't dispute that one iota. But it's also true in reverse with those older "married" stories.

I wasn't near debating that, just stating there have been plenty of great stories with married pete. I can't think of any great stories that focused solely on a single pete period, so right now I'm going with the marriage being more a pro than a con.

The mutant story was really good, it was larsen had hank being awesome and showed the possible consequence of a mutant child. If I actually collected instead of read I'd give you an issue number, sorry. But it was critical unless you figure pete and MJ would be seriously considering having a child as just a couple.

But reign definately was all about the marriage (though I know you didn't like it) and Requiem wouldn't have had that spectacular issue #2 without that. The rest of the stories could completely have happened without a married pete (except for the original venom stories where the newly married pete was a big deal to both brock and felicia).

Edit: what we consider great obviously differs greatly, especially since you think Brand New Day is so wonderful and classic. I personally only think a story is great if it actually gets an emotional response out of me (other than anger and disgust).

 

[iloveclones]

Oh, I doubt it differs that much. Although I really like BND, I can't point to a story that I would say is great, a Kraven's Last Stand, or Death of Gwen Stacy. I mean, a couple of the ones you mentioned, I wouldn't either.

I just think if you take the preconcieved notions away (which I admit is a very, very hard thing to do), the stories have been very good.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Oh, I doubt it differs that much. Although I really like BND, I can't point to a story that I would say is great, a Kraven's Last Stand, or Death of Gwen Stacy. I mean, a couple of the ones you mentioned, I wouldn't either.

I just think if you take the preconcieved notions away (which I admit is a very, very hard thing to do), the stories have been very good.

That could very well be true, though I'm sure there were probably some good clone stories there that I missed due to that boycott. I'll say this, I miss not reading spider-man. I especially miss a slott written spider-man or a wells written story. I miss my favorite character, but on this I cannot settle or factor the whole travesty out of my mind enough to actually check out an issue. If it was someone else I probably could without too big a deal but for my favorite character there's just a higher standard I have to apply. I can take a bad story, a poor concept, I can take pete being a lovable loser or anything to do with the "parker luck", I don't mind seeing him get beat either but I cannot accept him compromising his values in the way he has. When this is undone I'll probably pick up some trades to see what I missed.

 

[iloveclones]

And I don't blame you (or others) one bit. I would never try to get someone to start buying something I know they won't like. I mean, these things are expensive! I've taken a break from comics before, and came back really digging everything that I buy to this day.

But I do hope they never undo it.

 

[kguillou]

In time, the fans will come to accept the new status quo, thats the way it goes, and marvel knows this. I've already somewhat accepted it and moved on, and i'm hoping "New Ways to Die" will make everything worth it. I too hope that marvel doesn't undo this, they should stick to their guns, despite the what the fans are saying. It would be even more of a mess if they re-retconed this whole thing.

 

[moraldeficiency]

In time, the fans will come to accept the new status quo, thats the way it goes, and marvel knows this.

worked out well with the clone saga, I'll give you that.

 

[Captivated]

In time, the fans will come to accept the new status quo, thats the way it goes, and marvel knows this. I've already somewhat accepted it and moved on, and i'm hoping "New Ways to Die" will make everything worth it. I too hope that marvel doesn't undo this, they should stick to their guns, despite the what the fans are saying. It would be even more of a mess if they re-retconed this whole thing.

No.

I don't think they can make the stories "good enough" to overcome this offense. I know I'll NEVER accept it (as in, never support it) and it's clear many others are unhappy about it too.

People expect MJ and Peter to be together. Having spanned so much time and so many "realities" in Spidey's world, their relationship is iconic now.

I think the notion of "Peter and MJ" will out last JQ and the current gang of anti-marriage a-holes, that's for sure.

As for a "recon?" There's MUCH more potential for that making sense than there was for the CRAP FEST that got us here.

Like... Somehow remembering the way things WERE and SHOULD be BEFORE the DEVIL DEAL was made... finding a way to UNDO the anti-marriage CURSE... two soul-mates coming together again... twenty years of pre Civil War continuity being RESTORED... sounds like a viable story line to me.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

No.

I don't think they can make the stories "good enough" to overcome this offense. I know I'll NEVER accept it (as in, never support it) and it's clear many others are unhappy about it too.

People expect MJ and Peter to be together. Having spanned so much time and so many "realities" in Spidey's world, their relationship is iconic now.

I think the notion of "Peter and MJ" will out last JQ and the current gang of anti-marriage a-holes, that's for sure.

Just like a single Peter was once iconic. Here's the thing, in five years time there will be a group of Spider-readers who never read an issue that had Peter and MJ married. In ten years time people will not expect them to get together and in another 20 people will be as alien to the idea of a married Spidey as you are to a single Spidey.

As for a "recon?" There's MUCH more potential for that making sense than there was for the CRAP FEST that got us here.

Like... Somehow remembering the way things WERE and SHOULD be BEFORE the DEVIL DEAL was made... finding a way to UNDO the anti-marriage CURSE... two soul-mates coming together again... twenty years of pre Civil War continuity being RESTORED... sounds like a viable story line to me.

Since when were they soul mates? If Norman hadn't dropped Gwen of that bridge, MJ would proably have spent the last twenty years in Liz position. The marriage wasn't even a natural progession at the time; it was a decison made because of a newspaper strip.

 

[kguillou]

You know, i do wonder what they're planning on doing with this dangling plot line of MJ remembering everything, cause it obvious that eventually she's gonna tell Peter about the whole thing. If she tells Peter, wouldnt that defeat the whole purpose of BND and this brand new staus quo that they've built for him?

 

[Venom 1988]

You know i was thinking, maybe OMD would've been way better and more memorable if instead of the devil, Peter made a deal with God. Since Mephisto is the devil in the MU, i'm sure there must be a "God" character as well right? Well, anyway, after Peter searches the whole MU for someone to help Aunt May and comes up short, "God" appears, and has a long talk with Peter and offers to help in return for Peter's incredible selflessness and heroism over the years. However, "god" tells Peter that with every action there is a reaction and there may be negative consequences to His altering of time. Since its "God", Peter and MJ agree to the deal and suddenly Peter's identity is forgotten, Aunt May is fine, but MJ and Peter are no longer married. I know its a bit much, but it would've left a better taste in our mouths if Peter made a deal with "God" instead of the devil right? Besides after everything Peter's done since he became Spider-man, isnt it about time that God intervened?

Hmmm, I probably would have accepted that more than what we got

 

[Captivated]

That could very well be true, though I'm sure there were probably some good clone stories there that I missed due to that boycott. I'll say this, I miss not reading spider-man. I especially miss a slott written spider-man or a wells written story. I miss my favorite character, but on this I cannot settle or factor the whole travesty out of my mind enough to actually check out an issue. If it was someone else I probably could without too big a deal but for my favorite character there's just a higher standard I have to apply. I can take a bad story, a poor concept, I can take pete being a lovable loser or anything to do with the "parker luck", I don't mind seeing him get beat either but I cannot accept him compromising his values in the way he has. When this is undone I'll probably pick up some trades to see what I missed.

Well said. I feel exactly the same way.

I think they have lost more readers than they picked up.

 

[Themanofbat]

I think they have lost more readers than they picked up.

Unfortunately for you, yet fortunately for me, the sales numbers suggest otherwise.

<--- for you

<--- for me

 

[moraldeficiency]

Unfortunately for you, yet fortunately for me, the sales numbers suggest otherwise.

<--- for you

<--- for me

So far, I'll agree with you. But they're dropping pretty steadily, for the flagship book of the most popular comic company to just barely be in the top twenty..... that's not a good thing, especially when this had the added hook of seeing MJ for the first time again.

 

[iloveclones]

Wow, smiley taunts. I don't the creator of smilies intended them as such...

 

[javi1024]

the more i read about New Ways to Die, the more i cant wait for August to come. it looks very promising.