The "say something nice about Joey Q" Thread

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by ShadowBoxing, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. ShadowBoxing Registered

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    I'm doing this for controversies sake, I think.

    I've decided with all the bashing I do of Joe Q, and it's mostly on other sites where I post, but what the hell I've done my share here...it would be nice to take a moment, out of your busy day, reading and sh***ing about comics and stop and smell the roses for a bit and say something nice about Joey Q.:hoboj:

    Okay here it goes: Ya'know my comic shop used to be run by the biggest complainer of the bunch. He even hated Batman Begins because of how it "strayed from the comics" (but strangely liked X3). He was certainly ironic in his hate, but it could be safe to say he hated anything that didn't fall in his narrow definition of "good comics" or "good comic movies". As a result, he hated Joey Q. So much so he flicked him off and told him to "go to hell" and to "go f*** himself" at a convention.

    He had a friend though, who was not much brighter, but said something to me about Joey Q that stuck with me. He said: "love 'im or hate 'im, at the very least Joey Q is moving these characters somewhere". To me that's what he is, a vehicle for change. Comic book characters often get stagnant, repeating the same battles, and often the same ideas and stories issue after issue. In some ways Joey Q embraced that, but in a lot of ways he did away with that. He brought forth the notion that we can take these characters somewhere, out of the light we typically see them in and change them...that nothing...not even Cap's life is sacred in comics. I can respect that idea.

    Okay, that took a lot out of me, phew! Now you try.
     
  2. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    Well, sure, if by "moving somewhere" you actually mean "moving backwards to a place they've already been." Every single one of his "genies" -- low mutant population, heroes mistrusting heroes, single Spider-Man -- only came about because he didn't like where a character has progressed through the years and wanted them back the way they were when he first started reading comics.

    Sorry, sorry, not the point.

    Uh, let's see...something nice...well, he hired Joss Whedon and then stayed out of his way. That's totally awesome. :D:up:
     
  3. ShadowBoxing Registered

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    Besides "One More Day" which, I have to grant you, and of course is obviously a step backwards, a giant magically enhanced, non sensical step backwards...I fell like this is a case of the "Simpson's did it" episode of South Park. Low mutant populations, well, okay, technically back in the sixties there were fewer known mutants...but it wasn't that the race was going extinct...or that it was because of some horrible event. Heroes mistrusting heroes, okay, again, in the sixties and seventies you did have tension between the Avengers and the X-Men and sometimes the FF as well, but it's not like today where you have two very clear rival factions, one of which is completely outlaws in their own Government.

    Yes, whatever "new" story is done, whether it's goblins attacking New York, or heroes waging a Civil War is going to inherently resemble if not seem like an outright ripoff of what's been done before. It's impossible, with the sheer number of stories that whatever is being done now won't be like what's been done before. Also you have to understand that all writers, even the DC writers are writing as fans of stories they grew up with, so in a way the story telling becomes very cyclical

    But I digress. I was thinking more along the lines of creating the New Avengers and making that team as popular as the X-books for a time. Or putting Grant Morrison on the X-Men. Have Scott and Emma be a new X-couple. Exposing Matt Murdock. Those were ballsy moves, that were controversial, but proved interesting and ultimately benefitial.
     
  4. Kirk Langstrom FRANCINE!!!!

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    Joe's not as fat as he used to be. :up:
     
  5. fifthfiend M4J3ST1C L3G1SL4C3R4TOR

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    He's almost competent at ripping off Stan Lee's ideas if you overlook all the ways he fails at it. Also, he occasionally gets some of his creative teams to get their work in on time.

    In the vein of saying something actually nice, he does publish (editorialize?) Immortal Iron Fist, Incredible Hercules, and Daredevil, which are all totally great books.
     
  6. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    Would this be the same Morrison on X-Men whose run he pretty much entirely retconned or invalidated within a single month of the writer's departure? ;)

    The end result of his changes of course doesn't end up being the exact same as comics in the sixties and seventies, that would pretty much be impossible. But Joey Q himself stated that he wanted them done because he wanted the comics to be like the comics that he read in the past. If those changes have "worked" or is feeling fresh at the moment, I feel that is entirely due to the talent of the writers and editors who actually get stuck having to deal with those changes and much less to do with the guy who threw them at the wall in the first place, hoping that they'll stick.

    I mean, for an entire year and a half after the events of Decimation, pretty much absolutely nothing was done with the status of the X-Men's extinction. Not a single writer wanted to deal with it, and the ones who did were hamfisted at best and jawdroppingly stupid at worst (Sentinels at the X-Mansion? Seriously? Seriously?). Even today the whole thing only barely feels relevant, so it's certainly not like Quesada engineered some sort of brilliant scheme to get a breakthrough hit for the X-books.
     
  7. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

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    But here, I'll say another nice thing to make up for my critibtching:D...

    He's not in any way shape or form responsible for Countdown. That is totally awesome.
     
  8. GNR Registered

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    Always emphasizes the importance of storytelling whenever he's interviewed and doesn't get a hard on by announcing deaths like Mr.Didio.

    I know it's a group effort,after looking at the figures for post-bankruptcy Marvel and where they are now,part of that has to be commended to JQ.

    Brought in a load of tv and movie writers with mixed results.The Knaufs have been on fire with Iron Man and Heinberg has shown his ability to write great books.

    Understands his job.In a recent interview he said something about living up to advice Tom DeFalco told him when he got the job.He's not there to please everyone and he's always expecting negative feedback no matter how good a decision may seem.

    I think the most important thing though,is the amount of freedom he gives his writers.The Dodsons,Loeb and the Knaufs have all mentioned this recently.The Knaufs in particular were newbs to the comic game,and JQ gives them Iron Man right of the bat with little to no editorial interference.
     
  9. Sugarculted Registered

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    He allowed Annihilation to happen. One of my favourite events in years. I also got Nova out of that, so yeah...thanks, Joe Q :up:

    ...I'll just try to ignore what you did with Spidey. It never happened. I'll erase it from my memories with magic, too.
     
  10. yenaled 3X2(9YZ)4A

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    He worked on The Ray and that was a great series.
     
  11. Blader5489 CASUAL SEX!

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    Joss Whedon sucks. :o
     
  12. Franklin Richards Registered

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    I liked his Iron Man art on the Animated DVD.


    :thing: :doom: :thing:
     
  13. Spade Seeking new challengers

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    I can't wait for the response to this comment.

    On Quesada's better points...well, he hasn't cancelled any of the titles I really like. That's always a positive. While the events he hypes can be annoying, I usually get something good out of them. X-Factor and Nova's new titles are tied to "events," yet the titles themselves are on a scale I prefer. The TV/movie writer point was made with the Knaufs, and it's worth repeating: it was a good eye for potential that spawned this great run we've gotten. Then there's the trade paperbacks, which are great for people who want to get involved in a comic but need some quick catching-up to do.

    So there are positives to him as Marvel's EIC...they're just easy to overlook in the thick of things.
     
  14. Captain Useless The Social Assassin

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  15. Blader5489 CASUAL SEX!

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    :funny:

    Whedon's writing is fine, but the ridiculous delays are simply unacceptable to me. Has he ever put out a (Marvel) book that was consistently released on time?
     
  16. The Question Objectivism doesn't work.

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    -He's a fairly talanted artist.
    -While some of his editorial mandates are fairly stupid (Sins Past, One More Day, a lot of Civil war even though it was conceptually quite cool), all in all it's lead to some pretty cool changed in the Marvel Universe (mainly with The Initiative).
    -He's very good at hiring talent.
    -He seems like a very nice and morally upsanding person.
     
  17. Anubis Sup?

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    His breath has the smell of a warm summer ham.
     
  18. Spade Seeking new challengers

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    How close would you have to get to him to know that...?
     
  19. Silverstein Registered

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    Change is great.

    When offered "change" it's usually a good thing. Don't have enough for an item and a stranger or a friend offers you "change", it can make your day. When life is stale, and you're offered change, it kills monotony.


    But..when you grow up with someone. Learn everything about them, look up to them, draw them, watch them, believe in them, and someone says "Hey. Your hero is not real. And because he's fake, I'm gonna mold him into when he was MY hero." That is change. And it's not good.

    Civil War was a great idea. Sins Past/present/remembered/gray goblin....Good ideas. The man is not completely out there. Seeing Spidey join the avengers and take care of his past and stuff was a good change. Spidey has been around for a long time, looking into the past is a brilliant idea. And if Marvel had someone better, we'd still be in that story arc.

    But no....Marvel...Joephisto...wants to WOW us with "change". WOW, Captain America is dead, but hey here's The Sentry! WOW!! Spider-man got a new suit....sucks he had to be Stark's lackey to get it. WOW!!! Hulk is full of rage and pissed cause we killed his family...but that doesn't matter because he's filled with compassion and didn't kill anybody. (So wtf kind of "world war" is that anyway?) WOW!! MJ is gonna not exist anymore, magically....and Harry's back...

    WOW!

    I've read so many pages of Spider-Man comics, (many of us have) how could I not learn from the character? And then to change him? Have him remove his mask in front of the world after 60 years of laughing at people who suggested it? That's like Superman officially being like "Yeah sooo I have all of my powers and stregnths...but I'm no longer weak against Kryptonite. Um...yeah. Bye.." And then choosing Martha Kent's Life over Lois Lane's.
    Aunt May was going to die anyway!!! >_< Aunt May wouldn't even want him to go through with that. It makes no sense in terms of story. It was deliberately a change because Joephisto wanted it to be..

    Speaking of DC, though...


    Ever notice something? People that hate comics and know nothing of comics know 5 things.
    -Truth, justice and the american way= Superman
    -Beatin up criminals because his parents are dead= Batman
    - A good guy boyscout who is weak against a rock that anyone on the planet could pick up= Superman
    - A playboy millionaire who is dying inside to rid his city of crime so that no one will have to suffer like him= Batman
    - Superman is unsinkable and has a plethora of powers, Batman is smart and has toys.

    With those five things, comics have been made since 1932. Guess what. All of those things are true today. So are these five:

    1. Clark loves Lois
    2. Bats is single
    3. Alfred is his butler
    4. Krypton is no more
    5. Batman never removes his mask.


    I just gave you the fundamentals of the characters and then five more bits of trivia. Do you know why people know these things about Batman and Superman? Do you know what my point of mentioning it was?

    DC characters become icons!

    Writers say "This is Batman. There are fans who may not read every single comic. There are fans who have not read this book in 50 years!! But we want anyone...ANYONE to sit down, pick up a book and say this is mutha ****in Batman!!"

    Want change that doesn't destroy anything?

    -Clark and Lois get married.
    -Dick Grayson becomes Nightwing.
    -Barbara Gordon becomes Oracle.
    -Clark learns of other survivors of Krypton. Even gets a cousin.

    Why didn't it destroy anything?

    -Clark always liked Lois since he met her.
    -Dick Grayson had to move on, and now we can go as far as KILLING Robin and not piss anyone off.
    -Barbara was always smart and now we can have a solo Batman who maintains the same if not a more IMPORTANT relationship with her.
    -Superman is still the only Superman. He is still an icon and above everyone. And having a cousin makes sense to the story, it does not change anything we've seen in flashbacks or the past. Now we get Power Girl and Supergirl stories. Arguably one of the hottest superheroines ever.

    Marvel needs it's own Infinite Crisis. Instead of these lame shock-value storylines and in-house fanboyism.
     
  20. Silverstein Registered

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    This was my nice thing about joe by the way.
     
  21. Doc Destruction Geaux Saints!

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    Someday he will retire!
     
  22. Paloogin Registered

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    I think he has a good voice.
     
  23. Aristotle Registered

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    I love this thread. I love it almost more than I love finding the baznastard who used the Hype! to give me malware and tickling his brain with a Bowie knife.
     
  24. cerealkiller182 Must Get Deadpool Avatar

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    Supposedly he is holding the Loners characters for Cebulski.
     
  25. JewishHobbit Registered

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    You know, I used to be one of the people who defended Joe, but ever since OMD I really can't bring myself to say anything good about him. Moreso, I'm having trouble thinking of anything. I used to defend the Avenger titles, and specifically Bendis' writing of it, but I"ve noticed since OMD that I've enjoyed Bendis' stuff WAY much less. And most things I used to praise Joe about I'm realizing isn't really all that great.

    Sadly, Joe's shattered any respect I had for him and it seems that every interview he gives just grinds him further in the hole for me.

    It makes me sad that he's ruining Marvel for me :(
     

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