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Comics Enough crying, lets take our fight to Joey Q!

Yeah... isn't your wife from here?



No.. there never was... there used to be a Wilkie's (which you'd be familiar with), so maybe you're thinking of that place (I managed the Wilkie's from 1993 to 1997, so maybe we ran into each other), and now there's GameZilla, Mad City Comics, and The Comic Hunter.

:yay:

I believe the last time I visited this place would have been in and/or around the summer of 2005.......I am not very familiar with Moncton but I do know that if you're coming up from Bathurst, it's a very short drive to the comic book store from where you enter into Moncton...
 
I believe the last time I visited this place would have been in and/or around the summer of 2005.......I am not very familiar with Moncton but I do know that if you're coming up from Bathurst, it's a very short drive to the comic book store from where you enter into Moncton...

Probably was either Mad City or Gamezilla, as they are on the 126 and somewhat close to any highway exits, and are 2 blocks apart...

I don't think Comic Hunter was open in Moncton at that time...
 
I'm glad this thread has taken a turn for the better :hyper:

Continue with your conversations
 
6/5/2008


On Spider-Man Crawl Space, Marvel's Tom Brevoort (and I hope I spelled his last name correctly, too) gave an update on Issue 600 for "The Amazing Spider-Man", and while it's not much of a revelation, it doesn't sound good:

"Dan Slott and I talked through the storyline for AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #600 over lunch. It’ll either be one for the ages, or finito for the bunch of us."

What does that mean?

Does it mean that the marriage could return, or not be restored at all? If it's the latter, that's probably what he means by "finito for the bunch of us." Like it or loathe it, spin it any way you want, sales are going DOWN month after month and reviews for "Brand New Day" stories are mixed, at best. Sure, a Wolverine guest appearance in one comic had sales up a bit and Mr. Quesada sees "Brand New Day" as "a positive" thing, but the other two issues after it went down and sales for every issue month after month still are going down.

While there are many people who are saying "this is the best Spider-Man I've read in years", there are just as many, and according to which website and/or message board you go to maybe moreso, fans who are saying, "What? We lost the marriage for this?!? This writing is deja vu and juvenille! I hate what's happened! For the first time in (insert time spent collecting Spider-Man comics), I'm cancelling my subscription and not spending another dime until the marriage is restored!"

Also, I STRONGLY disagree that the marriage is a "sad example" of what bad things can happen to Spider-Man and it CANNOT be compared to the death of Gwen Stacy. While it's one thing to say something like that if you're not a fan that doesn't like the married-to-Mary Jane Spider-Man is one thing, but to say that to someone who grew up with a married Spidey, LOVED reading a married Spidey and WANTS to see the Peter/Mary Jane marriage back into continuity where WE feel it belongs is quite another.

Being married to Mary Jane also didn't take the fun out of the monthly Spider-Man comics -- the writers did, because, with most of them, THEY DIDN'T LIKE MARRIED SPIDER-MAN! But what the writers and artists fail to realize it's not about what THEY want, but what the FANS want. Now I'm not saying ALL fans when I say this, because there are people that do like "Brand New Day". Congratulations. I'm glad you guys are liking the comic books. But I don't and we can agree to disagree on that and remain friends. I've also had people mention to me some of what's happened with "BND" Spidey and I'm quite hurt by some of what they've done (in #560, Mary Jane calls her new boyfriend, someone OTHER than Peter, "Tiger?!?" WHAT?!? That's what she calls HIM!!) I've also been told she sadly replies she knew Spider-Man, "in another life", in the latest issue and thus teasing the audience that she still remembers her marriage to Peter/Spider-Man. To me, it's like a slap in the face from my favorite comic book company.

Regardless of what anyone else says, I personally think we'll get the Spider-Marriage back in continuity one day because, whether you like the character or not, Mary Jane is simply too popular to stay away from Peter for long, and there are still a lot of ticked-off fans that aren't pleased with what's happened to Spider-Man since "One More Day" concluded and "Brand New Day" began. She "died" years ago in an exploding airplane, but it was revealed she was alive and left before it blew up. A year later, she separated from Peter shortly after he found and saved her, but she came back and was with Peter again for good (at the time) nearly a year later. What chance do Mr. Quesada and Mephisto think THEY have of keeping Mary Jane and Peter single for long when there are so many fans that did, and still do, like seeing them together as a married couple? You can "kill" her off, you can separate her, you can try to divorce her from Peter, but it's all for naught -- Mary Jane doesn't stay away from Peter for long.

And while it's true most people don't believe internet petitions work most of the time, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying and I'm still going to show my support for the restoration of the Spider-Marriage. While I've said many times before that I had quit reading Spider-Man long before this happened (I left after "Sins Past", I purposefully stayed away from "The Other" and Spider-Man's unmasking because I read -- and hated -- the stories and didn't buy them), this time it is MUCH different. Saying that everything else happened in Spider-Man's continuity but my favorite marriage in comic book history is just wrong. I was recently told by a friend of mine that the latest issue of "Wizard" mentions that Marvel is aware of the fans' response and of internet petitions, but as I haven't gotten the new issue yet, I can't say for sure if it's so or not. If it's true, it means that Marvel IS aware of fans' negative reaction and that they want to see the Spider-Marriage back, so it's not like no one knows these petitions are up and/or that these fans are saying how disappointed they are.

If Marvel thinks they can keep this up and have fans forget and accept the retcon of the Spider-Marriage, they're mistaken. I've sent in hand-written letters to Marvel previously saying I don't like the comics, I've sent new letters saying I'm continuing to stay away, and I'll continue to mention this for the forseeable future until it's brought back.

With no offense intended to "Brand New Day" fans, I think (and again, this is just my opinion), this really is the worst era yet in Spider-Man's history. At least with "The Clone Saga", we ALL knew that, regardless of what Marvel tried to convince us otherwise, that Peter was the real McCoy, Ben Reilly was the clone, having Ben back as the "real" Spider-Man wouldn't last forever, and Mephisto never popped up to make a deal to erase Spidey's marriage in exchange to resolve everything that happened in "The Clone Saga". And it didn't magically affect the memories and reality of everyone in the entire MARVEL UNIVERSE, either. Unlike "The Clone Saga", NOBODY liked "One More Day". I still don't believe Peter and Mary Jane would EVER be crazy enough to erase their marriage together via magic with a Faustian deal with Mephisto -- it's a bad idea and out of character for BOTH of them.

Deals with Mephisto never work out in the long run. Just ask Ghost Rider. Either one. And if this deal DOES work, why should it be the exception? Why should it be a GOOD THING to have a deal with Mephisto WORK OUT?!?

I don't want to sound mean or rude or anything when I say these things. Far from it. It's not my intention. But I'm more hurt and disappointed than mad. I am disappointed that Marvel thinks what makes Spider-Man great is that he's single and not married to Mary Jane.

You don't give up on something you care about, and I'm not about to let Marvel have the erasing of the Peter/Mary Jane marriage remain in continuity forever.

'Nuff said.



Thanks for reading,
Stuart Green
 
Sales are the only thing that will change what happens in the comics

Not petitions, not letters, not whining
 
I'll be honest and admit that I did not read the entire post (it was a bit long winded for a message board) but I did read the most of it. Ending the marriage is an apt comparison. Gwen Stacy was only killed because there was nothing else to do with her. She would either have to marry Peter or stay dating him forever. Writers did not want to write a college aged Spidey who settles down and it would make no sense to date for years and not get married, so they simply chose to kill her. Mary Jane took the step that Gwen Stacy couldn't. So they undid the marriage. Essentially, Spider-Man was never meant to be married. You should more or less blame the writer who wrote the wedding issue (though Stan Lee did write the wedding in the comic strip) rather than the ones before and after, who never would have done so. Also...sales have not been down for Amazing Spider-Man. They've actually stayed within the same average range, since Sins Past. Usually 85-93,000 issues per month. Here is the sales data for April of this year.

8Amazing Spider-Man555$2.99Marvel86,885
14Amazing Spider-Man556$2.99Marvel78,442



And that is just for April. If we go by title rather than by issue, their combined total is over 150,000. Well above anything other than Secret Invasion. Those sympathetic to the loss of the marriage are the only ones diluding themselves into thinking that the sales or down or that everyone is angry. Spidey's reveal got more attention (media included) than the dissolving of the marriage. As I have said before, I only dislike how it was done, but not what was done. And I think that there are enough individuals who share that sentiment.
 
Does it mean that the marriage could return, or not be restored at all? If it's the latter, that's probably what he means by "finito for the bunch of us." Like it or loathe it, spin it any way you want, sales are going DOWN month after month and reviews for "Brand New Day" stories are mixed, at best. Sure, a Wolverine guest appearance in one comic had sales up a bit and Mr. Quesada sees "Brand New Day" as "a positive" thing, but the other two issues after it went down and sales for every issue month after month still are going down.

Even with declining sales, ASM would have to average out at 65k per issue to just break even with the total monthly Spider-Books sold prior to BND, so while it's natural for sales to dip (especially during tough economic times, when ALL comic sales are dropping), the 80k+ average at this point is doing well, and it will stabilize at some point (like most books due at some point), so this new era won't be ending anytime soon.

While there are many people who are saying "this is the best Spider-Man I've read in years", there are just as many, and according to which website and/or message board you go to maybe moreso, fans who are saying, "What? We lost the marriage for this?!? This writing is deja vu and juvenille! I hate what's happened! For the first time in (insert time spent collecting Spider-Man comics), I'm cancelling my subscription and not spending another dime until the marriage is restored!"

So if what you say is true, that while there are as many people who like it as there are people who dislike it, then this whole drama queen comment was all for naught, because you focus on what the NEGATIVE people are saying with great detail, but you fail to mention some of the FANTASTIC things the POSITIVE people are saying... I know you're obviously biased towards one direction, but to have validity in your point, you must express both sides of the coin equally, especially when you claim that there are "just as many" on both sides.

:yay:

Also, I STRONGLY disagree that the marriage is a "sad example" of what bad things can happen to Spider-Man and it CANNOT be compared to the death of Gwen Stacy. While it's one thing to say something like that if you're not a fan that doesn't like the married-to-Mary Jane Spider-Man is one thing, but to say that to someone who grew up with a married Spidey, LOVED reading a married Spidey and WANTS to see the Peter/Mary Jane marriage back into continuity where WE feel it belongs is quite another.

I'm not sure who exactly is comparing the death of Gwen Stacy to the "sad example" of Spider-Man being married... but I have seen people (myself included) compare the tragic losses in Spider-Man's life... just as the aforementioned Gwen Stacy, the loss of MJ as his wife is just as tragic. And I believe that's a valid point.

Being married to Mary Jane also didn't take the fun out of the monthly Spider-Man comics -- the writers did, because, with most of them, THEY DIDN'T LIKE MARRIED SPIDER-MAN! But what the writers and artists fail to realize it's not about what THEY want, but what the FANS want. Now I'm not saying ALL fans when I say this, because there are people that do like "Brand New Day". Congratulations. I'm glad you guys are liking the comic books. But I don't and we can agree to disagree on that and remain friends. I've also had people mention to me some of what's happened with "BND" Spidey and I'm quite hurt by some of what they've done (in #560, Mary Jane calls her new boyfriend, someone OTHER than Peter, "Tiger?!?" WHAT?!? That's what she calls HIM!!) I've also been told she sadly replies she knew Spider-Man, "in another life", in the latest issue and thus teasing the audience that she still remembers her marriage to Peter/Spider-Man. To me, it's like a slap in the face from my favorite comic book company.

But that's life in comics... things change all the time... I'm sure fans were outraged in 1973 when Gwen was killed, but sometimes, even bad things can happen to our favorite heroes and we just have to either accept it and keep reading or drop the books and move on.

:huh:

Regardless of what anyone else says, I personally think we'll get the Spider-Marriage back in continuity one day because, whether you like the character or not, Mary Jane is simply too popular to stay away from Peter for long, and there are still a lot of ticked-off fans that aren't pleased with what's happened to Spider-Man since "One More Day" concluded and "Brand New Day" began. She "died" years ago in an exploding airplane, but it was revealed she was alive and left before it blew up. A year later, she separated from Peter shortly after he found and saved her, but she came back and was with Peter again for good (at the time) nearly a year later. What chance do Mr. Quesada and Mephisto think THEY have of keeping Mary Jane and Peter single for long when there are so many fans that did, and still do, like seeing them together as a married couple? You can "kill" her off, you can separate her, you can try to divorce her from Peter, but it's all for naught -- Mary Jane doesn't stay away from Peter for long.

Due to the iconic culture these two characters have been through (especially the movies), it's inevitable that Marvel will reunite them... maybe not as a "married couple", but a couple nonetheless.

And I'm sure it will be a bumpy ride getting there.

Thanks for listening...

:yay:
 
I'll be honest and admit that I did not read the entire post (it was a bit long winded for a message board) but I did read the most of it. Ending the marriage is an apt comparison. Gwen Stacy was only killed because there was nothing else to do with her. She would either have to marry Peter or stay dating him forever. Writers did not want to write a college aged Spidey who settles down and it would make no sense to date for years and not get married, so they simply chose to kill her. Mary Jane took the step that Gwen Stacy couldn't. So they undid the marriage. Essentially, Spider-Man was never meant to be married. You should more or less blame the writer who wrote the wedding issue (though Stan Lee did write the wedding in the comic strip) rather than the ones before and after, who never would have done so. Also...sales have not been down for Amazing Spider-Man. They've actually stayed within the same average range, since Sins Past. Usually 85-93,000 issues per month. Here is the sales data for April of this year.

8Amazing Spider-Man555$2.99Marvel86,885
14Amazing Spider-Man556$2.99Marvel78,442



And that is just for April. If we go by title rather than by issue, their combined total is over 150,000. Well above anything other than Secret Invasion. Those sympathetic to the loss of the marriage are the only ones diluding themselves into thinking that the sales or down or that everyone is angry. Spidey's reveal got more attention (media included) than the dissolving of the marriage. As I have said before, I only dislike how it was done, but not what was done. And I think that there are enough individuals who share that sentiment.

Read this :) :
In 1987, Peter Parker married Mary Jane Watson. Most of the points which led to the death of Gwen Stacy apply to MJ, too. But unlike Gwen, MJ was allowed to marry Peter, and the marriage is very popular in fandom and has heightened Spider-Man's appeal rather than destroying it. While Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada stated in an interview with Wizard Magazine that he felt MJ's presence does lessen Spider-Man's appeal with young readers, past attempts to write out the character have been unpopular and short-lasting. (3 attempts is alot of times to try to get rid of something that people like.) While Gwen was popular, fans seemed to prefer the more vivacious Mary Jane, and when Spider-Man and Mary Jane were married in 1987, he was no longer in college and therefore seemed older anyway, at least in his early twenties.
 
I would never say anything as foolish as "Mary Jane was disliked." I merely admit that most writers were against marrying her to Peter Parker (which is why it only took seven years of comic writing before somebody tried to kill her). Fans do enjoy her since she (in the past) added excitement to his life. She was the super hot girl that you never expected Peter to be able to keep because he was still just a poor nerd bumbling through college and life as Spider-Man. But much of that dynamic faded when they married, since the natural progression was for them to settle down some what.

Now I agree that writers could have tried harder to make her just as interesting while married as she was while single. Failure to do so however, may have come from a lack of motivation or even from their personal experinces. After all, married life is rarely exciting and is mostly comforting. That is pretty much what Mary Jane has done. She has comforted the fan base. To an extent I feel that most fans are upset because they vicariously live through Peter Parker. So his nerdy triumph in essence represents their nerdy triumph as well. I on the other hand have had several girlfriends, including the one I have right now, so I do not feel as bonded to Mary Jane (this is only a hypothesis mind you). I do think she should be a part of Peter's life. Things seemed at their best when everything was Betty Brant, Mary Jane and Felicia Hardy. I can easily see MJ back in New York and dating Peter. But I can also see her dating him from time to time. Her best function was as a person that Peter can depend on. It is still possible to know his identity and be there for him, without having to be married. In fact that is the original role she had, once she entered Peter's life. Before hand though...Stan Lee admits this about MJ.

"According to Stan Lee, Mary Jane was originally intended to be simply a rival for Gwen Stacy for the affections of Peter Parker. Lee had always intended for Gwen Stacy to be Spider-Man's one true love, although fans vocally supported the feisty Mary Jane over the non-offensive Gwen Stacy.[2] The pairing of Mary Jane and Peter Parker has become one of the most prominent couples in the superhero genre."

That right there sums it up. Rival and couple. MJ should have continually been a fixture in Peter's life, but not with them getting married. She was a party girl and a model. It seemed highly unlikely that at the age of approximately 22, she would decide to get married to a man who pretty much couldn't support her life style. The marriage sort of brought down both characters in a way. But i'd love to see them together in some capacity.
 
6/5/2008


Mr. Quesada also forgot Peter and Mary Jane WERE also a married couple in college. It happened after Peter became Spider-Man again when Ben Reilly died and it came to an end before "Chapter One" began. It became lost in the shuffle, though, when Norman Osborn set up Spider-Man and he became a wanted criminal and had to don four other identities (Dusk, Hornet, Prodigy and Ricochet, respectively), and it was later abandoned. So they did try, it's just that they forgot to keep it up, because after the relaunch, Peter was at TriCorp, Mary Jane was an actress/model again and being stalked, while they acted out of character -- M.J. was a jerk and Peter was a lying idiot.

Now then, what's this?

Even with declining sales, ASM would have to average out at 65k per issue to just break even with the total monthly Spider-Books sold prior to BND, so while it's natural for sales to dip (especially during tough economic times, when ALL comic sales are dropping), the 80k+ average at this point is doing well, and it will stabilize at some point (like most books due at some point), so this new era won't be ending anytime soon.

I know it won't, but I'm trying to push it so that it ends sooner rather than later. Mr. Quesada said recently all of Marvel's stories are planned until 2010, but that could change if the sales continue to drop.

So if what you say is true, that while there are as many people who like it as there are people who dislike it, then this whole drama queen comment was all for naught, because you focus on what the NEGATIVE people are saying with great detail, but you fail to mention some of the FANTASTIC things the POSITIVE people are saying... I know you're obviously biased towards one direction, but to have validity in your point, you must express both sides of the coin equally, especially when you claim that there are "just as many" on both sides.

:yay:

Wow, never had any of my rants called a "drama queen comment" before. Kind of funny.

Of course I'm focusing on the negative, because I DON'T see anything positive about this from my point of view. From what I've read online, this stuff has been done before? Robbie quits the Bugle? He did that before in the late-90s. Peter quits the Bugle? How many times has he done that before? Someone else takes over the Bugle? I thought Norman Osborn owned it once before. Jonah will get it back. Mary Jane is back, but not back? Yeah, we've had that before too. Many times.

And there are just as many people that like "Brand New Day" as there are that don't like it. Just look at the message boards of SHH, Counting Down, Marvel's website, Spider-Man Crawl Space, the Wizard Universe Message Board, the list goes on and on.

If you knew I was focusing on the negative, why do you think I'd focus on the positive comments of something I don't like? Besides, the only positive comments I've seen have mostly been from Joe Quesada than monthly comic readers. Although, if I could remember any positive comments about the monthly comics, I would've used them. But I'd prefer to let the fans that DO like the "Brand New Day" comics say what they like than to have me speak on their behalf.

I'm not sure who exactly is comparing the death of Gwen Stacy to the "sad example" of Spider-Man being married... but I have seen people (myself included) compare the tragic losses in Spider-Man's life... just as the aforementioned Gwen Stacy, the loss of MJ as his wife is just as tragic. And I believe that's a valid point.

The main difference between that and the retcon of the marriage is that PETER DOESN'T REMEMBER IT. Peter remembers that Gwen died, but not that he lost his marriage. Mary Jane remembers, apparently, or at least that's what it's hinted at from what I was told. It's not the same when it's a sad example for Mary Jane, not Peter.

But that's life in comics... things change all the time... I'm sure fans were outraged in 1973 when Gwen was killed, but sometimes, even bad things can happen to our favorite heroes and we just have to either accept it and keep reading or drop the books and move on.

:huh:

Move on? Uh-uh. Clearly you didn't see any of my comments post "X-Men: The Last Stand" when my favorite character, Cyclops, was apparently killed off-screen. I'm still livid that it happened and I haven't moved on.

I'm not the kind of fan that accepts big changes like this, and the big difference between 1973 and 2008 is the internet and how outspoken the fans are now. They have more ways of telling Marvel that they don't like what's going on and monthly sales will ultimately decide if the "Brand New Day" Spider-Man stays or goes and, with no disrespect intended to those that like BND, I'm trying to make sure it goes.

So, the short answer for this is don't expect me to move on anytime soon.

Due to the iconic culture these two characters have been through (especially the movies), it's inevitable that Marvel will reunite them... maybe not as a "married couple", but a couple nonetheless.

And I'm sure it will be a bumpy ride getting there.

Why should we see them as a couple when they were already a married couple? Why should Mary Jane have to date her own husband, especially if it turns out she DOES remember?

Also, I hate "bumpy rides" in comics. That's what they said in 1996 before Peter Parker donned the costume again in the "Revelations" storyarc. That's also why I'm not reading the comics. There's nothing TO read in the "regular" Spider-Man comics.

Spider-Man has become an event, not a character.

Every time he changes, good or bad, it never lasts. He's been the main character and/or the one who is affected the most over the past few years ("House of M", "Secret War", "Civil War", etc.), and he's always reverted back to some previous state afterwards. He went from a married mid-20s married man being in college (post-Ben Reilly's death) to donning four other identities, to quitting and returning with a new supporting cast that didn't last long (the Mackie/Byrne relaunch), had his wife die and then return only to split up with him, had a Spider-Totem incident (man, that was BAD), to being reunited with his wife, to Sins Past to, *deep breath*, having his eyeball eaten, died, return from the dead with new powers, unmasked in front of the world, registered with the Superhero Registration Act only to switch sides and be on the run, have his Aunt May shot, go nuts and don his black costume again for a while, eventually make a literal deal with the Devil Mephisto, and become a single man with another new supporting cast, have money problems, have an icy relationship with ex-fiancee Mary Jane, have his best friend come back from the dead but how has yet to be revealed, and quit his job.

*pant, pant*

Did I miss anything?

The point is, when you look at all of that in an TWELVE YEAR TIME PERIOD (1996 to now), Spider-Man has changed and changed again but not all of the changes have been good. The only GOOD "major" change I liked in the last twenty years about the comics was the Spider-Marriage and now it's gone.

Thanks for listening...

:yay:

You're welcome. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on the current comics, but the one thing we can agree on is that we still like Spider-Man, the character.


Thanks for reading,
Stuart Green
 
I would never say anything as foolish as "Mary Jane was disliked." I merely admit that most writers were against marrying her to Peter Parker (which is why it only took seven years of comic writing before somebody tried to kill her). Fans do enjoy her since she (in the past) added excitement to his life. She was the super hot girl that you never expected Peter to be able to keep because he was still just a poor nerd bumbling through college and life as Spider-Man. But much of that dynamic faded when they married, since the natural progression was for them to settle down some what.

Now I agree that writers could have tried harder to make her just as interesting while married as she was while single. Failure to do so however, may have come from a lack of motivation or even from their personal experinces. After all, married life is rarely exciting and is mostly comforting. That is pretty much what Mary Jane has done. She has comforted the fan base. To an extent I feel that most fans are upset because they vicariously live through Peter Parker. So his nerdy triumph in essence represents their nerdy triumph as well. I on the other hand have had several girlfriends, including the one I have right now, so I do not feel as bonded to Mary Jane (this is only a hypothesis mind you). I do think she should be a part of Peter's life. Things seemed at their best when everything was Betty Brant, Mary Jane and Felicia Hardy. I can easily see MJ back in New York and dating Peter. But I can also see her dating him from time to time. Her best function was as a person that Peter can depend on. It is still possible to know his identity and be there for him, without having to be married. In fact that is the original role she had, once she entered Peter's life. Before hand though...Stan Lee admits this about MJ.

"According to Stan Lee, Mary Jane was originally intended to be simply a rival for Gwen Stacy for the affections of Peter Parker. Lee had always intended for Gwen Stacy to be Spider-Man's one true love, although fans vocally supported the feisty Mary Jane over the non-offensive Gwen Stacy.[2] The pairing of Mary Jane and Peter Parker has become one of the most prominent couples in the superhero genre."

That right there sums it up. Rival and couple. MJ should have continually been a fixture in Peter's life, but not with them getting married. She was a party girl and a model. It seemed highly unlikely that at the age of approximately 22, she would decide to get married to a man who pretty much couldn't support her life style. The marriage sort of brought down both characters in a way. But i'd love to see them together in some capacity.

6/5/2008


I think this part's funny: married life is rarely exciting.

HER HUSBAND IS SPIDER-MAN, PEOPLE!!! SPIDER-MAN!!! WHERE IS THE LACK OF EXCITEMENT?!?

It doesn't matter if he could support her life style or not, or if they should or shouldn't have been married -- they DID get married and fans that did like it miss it now that it's gone.

Also, the marriage didn't bring the characters down -- the WRITERS did. Especially those that hated the marriage. There are some writers that gave the couple memorable moments over the years, I will say that. Recent writers like J. Michael Straczynski and Paul Jenkins come to mind. But others, like post-relaunch writer Howard Mackie, dropped the ball and ruined how the characters interacted. They went from a married couple in college seeing a marriage counselor to having Mary Jane hate Peter for lying to her that he was Spider-Man again and she kept from him that she was being hunted by a stalker.

If you have a badly-written story and you have a married couple in comics, especially when the husband is a super-hero with numerous super-villains, including some that know who he really is, out to kill him on a regular basis, how can you NOT think of some problems for them or something exciting for them to do?



Stuart Green
 
Sales have gone down.
Go to any comic shop and you will see that they have at least 20 copies of every issue succeding OMD.
Personally I have given up marvel till they return to superhero books, I don't like their social issue and shocker approach to serialized drama.
It's sad because New Avengers had such potential- it had an enthusiasm for the medium I hadn't seen since Ennis' first 12 issues of the Punisher.
 
You can't go to a single comic shop that clearly does not represent the hundreds around the nation. You can use the data provided by Diamond (the largest and pretty much only distributor of comic books in North America), that tells us that Amazing Spider-Man has been in the top ten since before and after OMD/BND. Also Stuart, Peter Parker will always have an exciting life as Spider-Man. But Peter Parker as the husband of Mary Jane, leads a fairly mundane existence. MJ has no personal adventures and no general struggles to be concerned about. She is an actress and a model who triples up as a home maker. The only excitement in her life, is that which is brought to her via Peter (e.g. being kidnapped by a super villain or having their house blown to pieces). But those things could happen independent of MJ. There is nothing that can't happen without her, that happens with her. That is what I am saying. Her marriage is superficial in story terms. It's just there. It lightly contributes (gives Peter and outlet) but fails to detract from the stories being told. At least that is what i've seen from years of reading Spider-Man.
 
Wow, never had any of my rants called a "drama queen comment" before. Kind of funny.

Of course I'm focusing on the negative, because I DON'T see anything positive about this from my point of view. From what I've read online, this stuff has been done before? Robbie quits the Bugle? He did that before in the late-90s. Peter quits the Bugle? How many times has he done that before? Someone else takes over the Bugle? I thought Norman Osborn owned it once before. Jonah will get it back. Mary Jane is back, but not back? Yeah, we've had that before too. Many times.

And there are just as many people that like "Brand New Day" as there are that don't like it. Just look at the message boards of SHH, Counting Down, Marvel's website, Spider-Man Crawl Space, the Wizard Universe Message Board, the list goes on and on.

If you knew I was focusing on the negative, why do you think I'd focus on the positive comments of something I don't like? Besides, the only positive comments I've seen have mostly been from Joe Quesada than monthly comic readers. Although, if I could remember any positive comments about the monthly comics, I would've used them. But I'd prefer to let the fans that DO like the "Brand New Day" comics say what they like than to have me speak on their behalf.

The main difference between that and the retcon of the marriage is that PETER DOESN'T REMEMBER IT. Peter remembers that Gwen died, but not that he lost his marriage. Mary Jane remembers, apparently, or at least that's what it's hinted at from what I was told. It's not the same when it's a sad example for Mary Jane, not Peter.

Move on? Uh-uh. Clearly you didn't see any of my comments post "X-Men: The Last Stand" when my favorite character, Cyclops, was apparently killed off-screen. I'm still livid that it happened and I haven't moved on.

I'm not the kind of fan that accepts big changes like this, and the big difference between 1973 and 2008 is the internet and how outspoken the fans are now. They have more ways of telling Marvel that they don't like what's going on and monthly sales will ultimately decide if the "Brand New Day" Spider-Man stays or goes and, with no disrespect intended to those that like BND, I'm trying to make sure it goes.

So, the short answer for this is don't expect me to move on anytime soon.

Why should we see them as a couple when they were already a married couple? Why should Mary Jane have to date her own husband, especially if it turns out she DOES remember?

Also, I hate "bumpy rides" in comics. That's what they said in 1996 before Peter Parker donned the costume again in the "Revelations" storyarc. That's also why I'm not reading the comics. There's nothing TO read in the "regular" Spider-Man comics.

Spider-Man has become an event, not a character.

Every time he changes, good or bad, it never lasts. He's been the main character and/or the one who is affected the most over the past few years ("House of M", "Secret War", "Civil War", etc.), and he's always reverted back to some previous state afterwards. He went from a married mid-20s married man being in college (post-Ben Reilly's death) to donning four other identities, to quitting and returning with a new supporting cast that didn't last long (the Mackie/Byrne relaunch), had his wife die and then return only to split up with him, had a Spider-Totem incident (man, that was BAD), to being reunited with his wife, to Sins Past to, *deep breath*, having his eyeball eaten, died, return from the dead with new powers, unmasked in front of the world, registered with the Superhero Registration Act only to switch sides and be on the run, have his Aunt May shot, go nuts and don his black costume again for a while, eventually make a literal deal with the Devil Mephisto, and become a single man with another new supporting cast, have money problems, have an icy relationship with ex-fiancee Mary Jane, have his best friend come back from the dead but how has yet to be revealed, and quit his job.

*pant, pant*

Did I miss anything?

The point is, when you look at all of that in an TWELVE YEAR TIME PERIOD (1996 to now), Spider-Man has changed and changed again but not all of the changes have been good. The only GOOD "major" change I liked in the last twenty years about the comics was the Spider-Marriage and now it's gone.

You're welcome. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on the current comics, but the one thing we can agree on is that we still like Spider-Man, the character.

Thanks for reading,
Stuart Green

Man, when you list off the events of the Spidey books of the last twelve years, no wonder BND looks wonderful to me... :cwink:

I didn't mean any offense to the "drama queen" comment... it just came off that way, and I can be a tad harsh at times...

I wasn't aware of your X3 comments, butthe off-screen "death" of Cyclops was really lame...

In any event, I have no problems with agreeing to disagree... I wish most of the people that I disagreed with were as pleasant to talk to as you.

Cheers...

Mike

:yay:
 
Man, when you list off the events of the Spidey books of the last twelve years, no wonder BND looks wonderful to me... :cwink:

I didn't mean any offense to the "drama queen" comment... it just came off that way, and I can be a tad harsh at times...

I wasn't aware of your X3 comments, butthe off-screen "death" of Cyclops was really lame...

In any event, I have no problems with agreeing to disagree... I wish most of the people that I disagreed with were as pleasant to talk to as you.

Cheers...

Mike

:yay:

Hey you forgot me! I'm no jerk when it comes to a disagreement...unless you constantly try to tell me I'm wrong for no reason....like that Blader guy :cwink: ugggghhh :cmad: lol

but anyways, he was right on with the off screen killing of Cyclops. thats something we ALL can agree on. I didn't know he was dead until about half the movie was over...haha. :hehe:

I loved the action in x-3 and BEAST. but the story sucked...about 2 hours watching them fight over a cure...that doesn't even work...
 
Dude, what upsets me is that all the interesting stuff set up by Civil War and Back in Black never got to play out as JMS wanted it.
If Joey Q wanted Pete single again he could have said that MJ and Aunt Anna were Skrulls since ASM #15.
 

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