Sequels The script is the most important thing...

[SatEL]

Why cant WB offer Paul Dini to write the script instead of Singer and his pack of bad writers....The script is what breakes or makes the movie.

C`mon. Its a win win situation. Paul Dini proved he understands the character with the animated series and Peace on Earth. And he`s proving again with Superman: Doomsday. Just offer the guy to write the script. I seriously doubt he would refuse it.

Singer can even direct but to get someone like Dini as at least a consultant or second writer for the script would be good and put a lot of my fears to rest. They need to get help. However, their ego is way to big for them to admit that.

I might be been a greedy fuc... here but i want Singer removed from the project totally and no offense to Routh but i want SR scraped i know its unrealistic but these are the dreams of a hurt fan.

 

[Qwerty©]

Why cant WB offer Paul Dini to write the script instead of Singer and his pack of bad writers....The script is what breakes or makes the movie.

C`mon. Its a win win situation. Paul Dini proved he understands the character with the animated series and Peace on Earth. And he`s proving again with Superman: Doomsday. Just offer the guy to write the script. I seriously doubt he would refuse it.

Singer can even direct but to get someone like Dini as at least a consultant or second writer for the script would be good and put a lot of my fears to rest. They need to get help. However, their ego is way to big for them to admit that.

Yeah! And when Paul Dini dies, we can't make any Superman movies anymore, because it just won't be good without him

 

[Matt]

The obsession with Paul Dini and Bruce Timm is very similar to that the SR fans have with Richard Donner. Dini and Timm put out a very good Superman Animated Series. In fact, it had in my opinion, some of the best visions of certain characters to date. That said, they are hardly the end all, just as Richard Donner isn't. I'd much rather see an original take of Superman on the big screen that mixes all of the character's mythologies as opposed to just a rehash of TAS.

 

[Qwerty©]

The obsession with Paul Dini and Bruce Timm is very similar to that the SR fans have with Richard Donner. Dini and Timm put out a very good Superman Animated Series. In fact, it had in my opinion, some of the best visions of certain characters to date. That said, they are hardly the end all, just as Richard Donner isn't. I'd much rather see an original take of Superman on the big screen that mixes all of the character's mythologies as opposed to just a rehash of TAS.

What obsession?

I don't see anyone here claiming Donner's vision to be scripture in any way that is similar to those who praise Dini. Most SR fans also like Dini's Superman and are open to most versions of the character.

Sorry Matt, but i'm just not seeing that.

 

[Matt]

What obsession?

I don't see anyone here claiming Donner's vision to be scripture in any way that is similar to those who praise Dini. Most SR fans also like Dini's Superman and are open to most versions of the character.

Sorry Matt, but i'm just not seeing that.

Of course you aren't. Trust me, there are defenders of the movie here who treat Richard Donner's movies like the Holy Grail of cinema.

 

[Qwerty©]

Of course you aren't.

Listen Matt. I don't like being called a hypocrite. The truth is I do not see these things you are seeing. I do not think they exist. If you were talking about bluetights.net i'd agree with you. But on these boards right now, I do not see any SR likers acting in a trollish manner or being aggressive without provocation. I'm not saying it isn't possible, as I understand that even people with a positive opinion can be trolls. Just look at the Batman boards.

But most of the positive people here are too content to cause trouble, and most of the conflict stems from trolls who disliked the movie.

Trust me, there are defenders of the movie here who treat Richard Donner's movies like the Holy Grail of cinema.

I don't see them.

 

[Matt]

Listen Matt. I don't like being called a hypocrite. The truth is I do not see these things you are seeing. I do not think they exist. If you were talking about bluetights.net i'd agree with you. But on these boards right now, I do not see any SR likers acting in a trollish manner or being aggressive without provocation. I'm not saying it isn't possible, as I understand that even people with a positive opinion can be trolls. Just look at the Batman boards.

But most of the positive people here are too content to cause trouble, and most of the conflict stems from trolls who disliked the movie.
I don't see them.

Then you quite frankly aren't really looking. And you are being a bit of a hypocrite. Just as I am sure, I am. In fact...the only person who truly walks the middle ground here is Showtime. I am sure he would be more than willing to tell you there are trolls on both sides (yes, even the supporters) if you aren't willing to take my word for it.

Again, I'm not saying you are an intentional hypocrite, but again...it is much harder to see these things in like-minded people, which is probably why you "don't see it".

 

[Crook]

that's a good idea.
so how to pass it to WB?
btw, what is Paul Dini's comment on SR?

Paul Dini's LiveJournal

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+1]Up, up and anyway...[/SIZE][/FONT]
Yeah, I saw the new SUPERMAN movie.

Eh, it was okay.

Considering the train wreck it could have been it was outstanding, but as it was, to me at least, it was just okay.

Given Superman's history in comics, movies, radio, television and a dozen other places, I was disappointed that the filmmakers looked only as far as the two movies made in the late 70's for their inspiration. But Superman, both as a character and as an entire concept, is much richer than those films. Clark the bumbler, the barely developed Daily Planet staff (besides Lois), the Superman/Clark/Lois triangle, goddamn wacky Lex and his daffy henchmoll du jour, ugh. Enough. You clowns are spending, when all is said and done, 300 million dollars. Show me something I can't get at the video rental store. Screw the fact THE INCREDIBLES is a cartoon, give me a story that's better than that, because animated or not, THE INCREDIBLES is the new gold standard for superhero movies. SUPERMAN RETURNS was in live-action (partially) and it felt like a cartoon, a flat, boring one. THE INCREDIBLES had characters that were compelling, some cool plot twists, great action sequences, and a villain's plot that, while not the most original, actually made sense. Weren't too many of those elements in SUPERMAN RETURNS.

I liked bits and pieces -- Eva Marie Saint, Brandon Routh, the Smallville flashbacks, Superman seen via a security camera foiling a convenience store robbery, the whole saving the plane sequence. Sweet raisins in a bowl of bland oatmeal.

Then again, I saw it for free, so what right do I have to complain?

 

[Qwerty©]

Paul Dini's LiveJournal

I guess that's why Paul Dini is viewed as god by most of the SR haters.. he agrees with them. But they take it to the extreme.

 

[mego joe]

exactly!! most people down the fact Jason was even brought into the movie, but that's what makes the mood change at the end for supes, there was more of a smile on him knowing that jason was his son. Just think of someone trying to take that away from supes now......you'll see a whole diferent side of Superman.....yea emotional...but not SR emotional....MOS EMOTIONAL!!

To me though, the circumstances surrounding Jason already depict a Jason that has been taken away from SUperman. Jason doesn't know SUperman is his father and Richard is raising him. THat is a sadder and more depressing situation than having never had Jason in the first place. The realization should be, "Oh man, I really F-ed up, not, WOW! I'm a dad! I get it!

To me the ending is bitter sweet. It's not suddenly a feel good moment, it's a sober realization that his mistakes have resulted in even more problems.

The whole introduction of a child for SUperman as depicted in SR is just wrong and out of charcter and thusly should be voided.

 

[mego joe]

I think that, given that Supes had just returned from seeing the remains of his homeworld, that he would feel a bit outcast.

I can understand that, it's too bad this wasn't developed. HE didn't act poorly once he returned, he acted like SUperman.

Consider, for example, a toddler, who, for whatever reason, is out of a city when it is destroyed by a nuclear bomb (just work with me here). That toddler, years later, returns to the remains of the city. How do you think he/she would feel?

But he didn't act unlike Superman when he returned. His actions that are un-Superman-like took place before he left for KRypton, when his upbringing and sense of humanity would be operating at their highest level. He's involved with the woman he loves and I would imagine happy.

Quite probably lonely, sad, and weighed down. The survivor would struggle to connect with people, so focused he/she is on his/her sadness (thats the nature of depression).

Jason snapped Supes out of that depression.

I understand that, but his actions before he left are the ones that are questionable.

Thats how I look at it. If you look at it a different way, thats fine. To each their own.

I get what you are saying, but no one is really arguing that he's acting out of character when he comes back. His out of characte stuff happens before he leaves, before he sees the remains of Krypton. THere's no believable or plausible explanation for THOSE actions. That is the problem people are having. IF he returned to Lois and felt disconnected because of his trip, no one would question this. I am questioning why he treats Lois the way he does, BEFORE he leaves and causes the mess to which he returns.

Though it is by no means guaranteed that it will make MoS super-successful, I second this suggestion.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Paul Dini's LiveJournal

Up, up and anyway...

Yeah, I saw the new SUPERMAN movie.

Eh, it was okay.

Considering the train wreck it could have been it was outstanding, but as it was, to me at least, it was just okay.

Given Superman's history in comics, movies, radio, television and a dozen other places, I was disappointed that the filmmakers looked only as far as the two movies made in the late 70's for their inspiration. But Superman, both as a character and as an entire concept, is much richer than those films. Clark the bumbler, the barely developed Daily Planet staff (besides Lois), the Superman/Clark/Lois triangle, goddamn wacky Lex and his daffy henchmoll du jour, ugh. Enough. You clowns are spending, when all is said and done, 300 million dollars. Show me something I can't get at the video rental store. Screw the fact THE INCREDIBLES is a cartoon, give me a story that's better than that, because animated or not, THE INCREDIBLES is the new gold standard for superhero movies. SUPERMAN RETURNS was in live-action (partially) and it felt like a cartoon, a flat, boring one. THE INCREDIBLES had characters that were compelling, some cool plot twists, great action sequences, and a villain's plot that, while not the most original, actually made sense. Weren't too many of those elements in SUPERMAN RETURNS.

I liked bits and pieces -- Eva Marie Saint, Brandon Routh, the Smallville flashbacks, Superman seen via a security camera foiling a convenience store robbery, the whole saving the plane sequence. Sweet raisins in a bowl of bland oatmeal.

Then again, I saw it for free, so what right do I have to complain?

Could have said it better myself.... my feelings exactly. Thumb's up Dini

 

[Venom'sDad]

....

 

[superbaby]

I guess that's why Paul Dini is viewed as god by most of the SR haters.. he agrees with them. But they take it to the extreme.

you are really pathetic, you know.
this is the first time i comment on poster.

has he said anything wrong?
any of the superman's fans know that SR is a waste.

 

[Qwerty©]

you are really pathetic, you know.
this is the first time i comment on poster.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

has he said anything wrong?

Not really. His criticisms are valid. I'm just commenting on typical fanboy response. When a creator such as Nolan, Raimi and Dini makes a good adaption, fans praise them constantly. When these creators agree with them, these creators become a sort of deity in the eyes of fanboys.

any of the superman's fans know that SR is a waste.

So I'm not a Superman fan?

 

[wellsy]

I can understand that, it's too bad this wasn't developed. HE didn't act poorly once he returned, he acted like SUperman.


But he didn't act unlike Superman when he returned. His actions that are un-Superman-like took place before he left for KRypton, when his upbringing and sense of humanity would be operating at their highest level. He's involved with the woman he loves and I would imagine happy.



I understand that, but his actions before he left are the ones that are questionable.


I get what you are saying, but no one is really arguing that he's acting out of character when he comes back. His out of characte stuff happens before he leaves, before he sees the remains of Krypton. THere's no believable or plausible explanation for THOSE actions. That is the problem people are having. IF he returned to Lois and felt disconnected because of his trip, no one would question this. I am questioning why he treats Lois the way he does, BEFORE he leaves and causes the mess to which he returns.

I know I'm shifting the goal-posts repeatedly here, but consider this - Superman is told that astronomers have found the remains of Krypton. Superman has sex with Lois (for whatever reason) and Jason is conceived, and then Supes leaves. These events did not occur in Superman 2, but afterwards. Does that answer a few of your problems?

If not, then I'd say we'll just have to agree to disagree...

On most things t: .

 

[buggs0268]

Dini didn't like SR. He towed the company line on opening night, but a few days later he told a different story. He was severly disapointed, and I don't think he would want to do a follow up to SR. He would do a reboot.

And the reason why people keep bringing up Dini is that for years he has presided over, and written vastly superior Superman stories that far outdo anything that Singer and his wack pack put on the screen. Here is a guy that Warner's was taking a chance on to oversee the Batman Cartoon from what he did on Tiny Toons and Animaniacs. He could have turned out a complete crap cartoon. But he instead turned out a cartoon that was darker and more compelling than the live action movie that had just been released. He has consitently shown that he can, in 20 minute cartoons, have a compelling story that draws the watcher in, gets the character, and has more heart and emotional depth than anything that Singer put on the screen. And he has done it consistenly since 1992. That is why people keep bringing him up. Because he has a proven track record. With animated shows that are more adult than the live action crap.

 

[Sun_Down]

I really respect Dini's work and all but this...

"THE INCREDIBLES is the new gold standard for superhero movies."

...makes me wanna laugh, cry and vomit all at the same time.

 

[Crook]

It was geared towards kids, but in terms of overall demographic, I think it's very close to what Superman should go for.

In recent years, Batman Begins raised the bar for the gritty themed comic book movies, while Spider-Man 2 & The Incredibles raised it for the light-hearted/adventurous side of the genre.

 

[Qwerty©]

I really respect Dini's work and all but this...

"THE INCREDIBLES is the new gold standard for superhero movies."

...makes me wanna laugh, cry and vomit all at the same time.

Why? The Incredibles was great.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Exactely. Dini has a proven record. I dont buy the idea that Singer is going to let loose in the sequel. This should`ve been done in SR! You should aim to make the best Superman movie u can, not ur Superman movie. It was a reintroduction of the GREATEST character of all time and SR is just an ok/good movie. I`m not ok with that. I thought Singer was the saviour of the Superman franchise. I was delighted when he casted Brandon Routh and Kevin Spacey. But his "creative" changes to a character that didnt need to be changed are simply....questionable. This alone make the movie not GREAT in my opinion. The guy couldnt even get a simple costume right....

 

[Cyrusbales]

So you'd want Superman to be exactly the same character in every single movie and not develop at all?

 

[Crook]

Who are you talking to?

 

[Cyrusbales]

spider-daniel, "changes to a character that didnt need to be changed are simply....questionable"

 

[Crook]

That doesn't imply "all" changes though. Just ones that are unnecessary.