Sequels The script is the most important thing...

[Cyrusbales]

The tone of the entire post made me believe his thoughts were that superman was ruined as a character in this movie because he was different.

 

[Crook]

Yeah, different in a "bad" way. But that's not to say alterations to the character aren't welcome.

 

[Figs]

Why? The Incredibles was great.

Meh! They were ripoffs of classic characters. I saw the trailer and rolled my eyes. I think a lot of these made up movies inspired by comics need to die. The Incredibles, Super Ex Girlfriend, whatever the new one is with Will Smith. They are just bogging down the market and I guarantee the general audience if not already will be getting sick of comic movies. That could be another factor in the next Superman movie as well as others not doing so well.

 

[Crook]

Non-sense. If the film is good and captures the audience, it WILL do good.

This is why Incredibles was a huge hit, and Super Ex-Girlfriend was a bonafide bomb.

 

[mego joe]

I know I'm shifting the goal-posts repeatedly here, but consider this - Superman is told that astronomers have found the remains of Krypton. Superman has sex with Lois (for whatever reason) and Jason is conceived, and then Supes leaves. These events did not occur in Superman 2, but afterwards. Does that answer a few of your problems?

If not, then I'd say we'll just have to agree to disagree...

On most things t: .

My response is:

Why is SUperman in a sexual relationship with Lois w/o revealing his identity of Clark KEnt? That to me severely out of character.

Why does he not say goodbye? SOrry, "It was too difficult" is not a believable explanation for Superman. IT's laziness on the part of the writers. This is completely contradictory to the character, you've got to have a believable explanation for this action.

Also, 'for whatever reason' is not good enough either. Everything that happens in SR stems from these events and there is almost zero explanation/ exploration of the context. W/o that one has to invent context and you can't come up with a context that fits the character which also has him doing what he does in the backstory of SR.

 

[VenomsMom]

My response is:

Why is SUperman in a sexual relationship with Lois w/o revealing his identity of Clark KEnt? That to me severely out of character.

Why does he not say goodbye? SOrry, "It was too difficult" is not a believable explanation for Superman. IT's laziness on the part of the writers. This is completely contradictory to the character, you've got to have a believable explanation for this action.

Also, 'for whatever reason' is not good enough either. Everything that happens in SR stems from these events and there is almost zero explanation/ exploration of the context. W/o that one has to invent context and you can't come up with a context that fits the character which also has him doing what he does in the backstory of SR.

Perhaps he erased her memory again? After having sex he decides its time to tell Lois the truth but wait.....before this action happens it is revealed that there are remnants of Krypton. Supes makes a firm decision. Does he tell Lois or does he give in to the temptation of exploring his home planet. Knowing he will be gone perhaps for good. He decides not to reveal his identity and not tell Lois that he may be leaving the planet for good. Knowing how Lois will struggle with his decision he feels it is in the best interest of them both not to say anything at all. Of course this is all speculation but this is the impression I was given. There is just too much omitted from this story that we have to fill in the blanks. Anyone can give their interpretation of what happen. Apparently everything was discounted in SII so there is not much to go on. Supes leave earth and Lois moves on after realizing his departure. In other words in every way this damn francise should have been rebooted from the beginning. That is the just of it.

 

[mego joe]

Perhaps he erased her memory again? After having sex he decides its time to tell Lois the truth but wait.....before this action happens it is revealed that there are remnants of Krypton. Supes makes a firm decision. Does he tell Lois or does he give in to the temptation of exploring his home planet. Knowing he will be gone perhaps for good. He decides not to reveal his identity and not tell Lois that he may be leaving the planet for good. Knowing how Lois will struggle with his decision he feels it is in the best interest of them both not to say anything at all. Of course this is all speculation but this is the impression I was given. There is just too much omitted from this story that we have to fill in the blanks. Anyone can give their interpretation of what happen. Apparently everything was discounted in SII so there is not much to go on. Supes leave earth and Lois moves on after realizing his departure. In other words in every way this damn francise should have been rebooted from the beginning. That is the just of it.

You are certainly right about that. I still can't believe anyone thinks that SR without a coherent backstory that explains the motivations of its two main characters can possibly be perceived as 'good.'

 

[Sun_Down]

Why? The Incredibles was great.

Here's why...

Meh! They were ripoffs of classic characters. I saw the trailer and rolled my eyes. I think a lot of these made up movies inspired by comics need to die. The Incredibles, Super Ex Girlfriend, whatever the new one is with Will Smith. They are just bogging down the market and I guarantee the general audience if not already will be getting sick of comic movies. That could be another factor in the next Superman movie as well as others not doing so well.

The Incredibles was fun, but all they really did was rip-off/parody real superheroes. And it's an apples-to-oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned because The Incredibles was animated. Compare it to JLU and it might be more fair.

 

[Qwerty©]

Here's why...



The Incredibles was fun, but all they really did was rip-off/parody real superheroes. And it's an apples-to-oranges comparison as far as I'm concerned because The Incredibles was animated. Compare it to JLU and it might be more fair.

Have you actually seen the film?

The Incredibles is far from a parody, it just makes references to comic cliches and adds humanity to them (such as comics like Kingdom Come).

The rip-off powers are basically generic hero powers, super-strength, speed, force fields, stretching, invisibility. There are tons of heroes with those powers.

 

[Showtime]

I thought the incredibles was a great film, not just an entertaining animated movie, but an well done and entertaining film.

 

[DarkSuperman]

Paul Dini's LiveJournal

Dini hit that nail on the head with a Asgardian Hammer. I totally and fully agree with everything that he stated. The entire film I just felt underwhelmed by stuff I had already seen before, only it was done better the first time.

Can I please see something cool now? Something original? Something, from the actual comics? Make Jor-El young and Superman-like, Make Luthor have an actual super villain scheme worthy of Superman. Have the Man of Steel actually throw down with a super villain.

I for the life of me cannot comprehend how they've spent 200+ Million on that movie. It was an utter waste of potential to build a foundation of mediocrity. I could write ALL day about the wasted potential and story elements they could have crafted from 60+ years of comic lore, but honestly that would just make me upset. I'm so disheartened by the first that I will likely not go see the second when they go "Wrath of Khan" on it or whatever the hell singer said.

Maybe I will get a kick-ass Superman Film I'm in another 20 years when I'm 42? Thats about the only thing I hope for now.

 

[DarkSuperman]

To me though, the circumstances surrounding Jason already depict a Jason that has been taken away from SUperman. Jason doesn't know SUperman is his father and Richard is raising him. THat is a sadder and more depressing situation than having never had Jason in the first place. The realization should be, "Oh man, I really F-ed up, not, WOW! I'm a dad! I get it!

To me the ending is bitter sweet. It's not suddenly a feel good moment, it's a sober realization that his mistakes have resulted in even more problems.

The whole introduction of a child for SUperman as depicted in SR is just wrong and out of charcter and thusly should be voided.

Giving superman a child, frankly...is a defecation of his Character. If the movie is to be believe. Superman apparently used his super sex appeal to have sex with Lois. Knocked her up without being honest with her and telling her his secret Identity then left without saying goodbye on a hunch some earth scientists said his planet was out there? Lame.

Firstly Superman is the ultimate boy scout, He would NEVER hit it and Quit it. He isn't one of my college friends, He's Superman, he's better than that.

Secondly, Superman has an advanced holographic computer in his fortress with the answers to any and every question he would want to ask...and I'm MORE than sure Marlon Brando would told him. "Look, Stupid, Krypton is dead. Exploded. Its the reason I sent you to earth in the first place! Of course its not still out there...there are NO survivors! You are the LAST SON OF KRYPTON. Now, stop being ridiculous and go save people."

 

[DarkSuperman]

I don't understand what you are saying here.

Not really. His criticisms are valid. I'm just commenting on typical fanboy response. When a creator such as Nolan, Raimi and Dini makes a good adaption, fans praise them constantly. When these creators agree with them, these creators become a sort of deity in the eyes of fanboys.
So I'm not a Superman fan?

Ummm...yeah, that's how it works in a intelligent society. We praise and honor successful people when they do a incredible job. Just as we Criticize and disapprove those who screw up. If you don't want people to judge your film as unworthy of the Superman Legacy or lackluster then it would have been in Singer's best interest to...Ohhh I don't know...TRY HARDER!

 

[DarkSuperman]

Dini didn't like SR. He towed the company line on opening night, but a few days later he told a different story. He was severly disapointed, and I don't think he would want to do a follow up to SR. He would do a reboot.

And the reason why people keep bringing up Dini is that for years he has presided over, and written vastly superior Superman stories that far outdo anything that Singer and his wack pack put on the screen. Here is a guy that Warner's was taking a chance on to oversee the Batman Cartoon from what he did on Tiny Toons and Animaniacs. He could have turned out a complete crap cartoon. But he instead turned out a cartoon that was darker and more compelling than the live action movie that had just been released. He has consitently shown that he can, in 20 minute cartoons, have a compelling story that draws the watcher in, gets the character, and has more heart and emotional depth than anything that Singer put on the screen. And he has done it consistenly since 1992. That is why people keep bringing him up. Because he has a proven track record. With animated shows that are more adult than the live action crap.

Quite an Amazing post, my friend. Amazing indeed. From your mouth to Gods ears...or at the very least The WB's.

 

[Sun_Down]

Have you actually seen the film?

The Incredibles is far from a parody, it just makes references to comic cliches and adds humanity to them (such as comics like Kingdom Come).

The rip-off powers are basically generic hero powers, super-strength, speed, force fields, stretching, invisibility. There are tons of heroes with those powers.

Of course I've seen the film, what kind of ****ing question is that?

I'm sorry if you disagree, but just because Dini said it was great, doesn't mean it's necessarily fact. If I had been 8 when it came out, then I might have agreed, but as an adult, I think it's ridiculous to call it the "gold standard".

 

[superbaby]

Dini hit that nail on the head with a Asgardian Hammer. I totally and fully agree with everything that he stated. The entire film I just felt underwhelmed by stuff I had already seen before, only it was done better the first time.

Can I please see something cool now? Something original? Something, from the actual comics? Make Jor-El young and Superman-like, Make Luthor have an actual super villain scheme worthy of Superman. Have the Man of Steel actually throw down with a super villain.

I for the life of me cannot comprehend how they've spent 200+ Million on that movie. It was an utter waste of potential to build a foundation of mediocrity. I could write ALL day about the wasted potential and story elements they could have crafted from 60+ years of comic lore, but honestly that would just make me upset. I'm so disheartened by the first that I will likely not go see the second when they go "Wrath of Khan" on it or whatever the hell singer said.

Maybe I will get a kick-ass Superman Film I'm in another 20 years when I'm 42? Thats about the only thing I hope for now.

well, just group yourself and some of us as the unfortunate group. obviously there are PLENTY of others who REALLY like singer's take and can't wait to see more.

 

[Lighthouse]

I will forever love Dini for helping to give us Batman:TAS and really like his work with Alex Ross, but Countdown is really really awful. I completely agree with his feelings on SR, but I don't know if I'm for him working on a Superman movie.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dini write an initial story, (not draft) then have an actual script writer come in and convert the story to a script with Dini helping explain his view of the character. Thats the only way I would like to see Dini involved in a superman movie.

 

[Showtime]

Dini hit that nail on the head with a Asgardian Hammer. I totally and fully agree with everything that he stated. The entire film I just felt underwhelmed by stuff I had already seen before, only it was done better the first time.

Can I please see something cool now? Something original? Something, from the actual comics? Make Jor-El young and Superman-like, Make Luthor have an actual super villain scheme worthy of Superman. Have the Man of Steel actually throw down with a super villain.

I for the life of me cannot comprehend how they've spent 200+ Million on that movie. It was an utter waste of potential to build a foundation of mediocrity. I could write ALL day about the wasted potential and story elements they could have crafted from 60+ years of comic lore, but honestly that would just make me upset. I'm so disheartened by the first that I will likely not go see the second when they go "Wrath of Khan" on it or whatever the hell singer said.

Maybe I will get a kick-ass Superman Film I'm in another 20 years when I'm 42? Thats about the only thing I hope for now.

Poor Dini, he's been nitched by DC/WB and will never get the chance to take on a Superman as a feature film. I would be bitter too.

 

[Showtime]

Dini didn't like SR. He towed the company line on opening night, but a few days later he told a different story. He was severly disapointed, and I don't think he would want to do a follow up to SR. He would do a reboot.

And the reason why people keep bringing up Dini is that for years he has presided over, and written vastly superior Superman stories that far outdo anything that Singer and his wack pack put on the screen. Here is a guy that Warner's was taking a chance on to oversee the Batman Cartoon from what he did on Tiny Toons and Animaniacs. He could have turned out a complete crap cartoon. But he instead turned out a cartoon that was darker and more compelling than the live action movie that had just been released. He has consitently shown that he can, in 20 minute cartoons, have a compelling story that draws the watcher in, gets the character, and has more heart and emotional depth than anything that Singer put on the screen. And he has done it consistenly since 1992. That is why people keep bringing him up. Because he has a proven track record. With animated shows that are more adult than the live action crap.

It's to bad for him that he is going to be relegated to "cartoons" and not get the chance to test the waters of live action then.

 

[Qwerty©]

Of course I've seen the film, what kind of ****ing question is that?

You just seem to have completely missed the point, thats all.

I'm sorry if you disagree, but just because Dini said it was great, doesn't mean it's necessarily fact.

I don't care what Dini thinks. It is my own opinion that the Incredibles is one of the best superhero movies.

If I had been 8 when it came out, then I might have agreed, but as an adult, I think it's ridiculous to call it the "gold standard".

Why? Because it's a cartoon?

The fact is, this cartoon contains more depth, suspense and emotion than most live-acttion comic book movies such as Fantastic Four, X-Men 3 and Ghost Rider.

You don't have to be eight to enjoy it.

 

[buggs0268]

It's to bad for him that he is going to be relegated to "cartoons" and not get the chance to test the waters of live action then.

I know. It stinks. And I think he has given up on the possibility of being involved in the movies.

 

[Showtime]

I know. It stinks. And I think he has given up on the possibility of being involved in the movies.

You know what, although it gets old when everybody keeps shouting for Dini to save Superman, he has given us great entertainment within his field along with Timm. So he has provided a great service, but I still don't think either of them are the answer for a live action Superman.

 

[hammy]

Exactly, when will people learn this. Plus Dini and Timm have never even written a movie, so what makes people think they are capable of making a good one?

Singer has made plenty of movies, but I've yet to see a good one from him.

 

[VenomsMom]

Singer has made plenty of movies, but I've yet to see a good one from him.

Not a fan of Singer, are you?