Age of Ultron The Steve Rogers/Captain America Thread

[Stringer]

Well Cap surely is a level above Hawkeye SW, QS, and Widow. The fact they've already been showcased more than arguably and probably the second most popular hero in the MCU doesn't alleviate concerns that Whedon doesn't know what he's doing with Cap.

 

[Loki882]

WHY? Seriously what evidence do we have of that? NONE! Most of the trailers have been Ultron-centric, with only Tony, Hulk, and Widow really getting any kind of focus It in no way indicates that Whedon doesn't know what he's doing with Cap, at all.

And no, QS, SW, and Hawkeye have NOT "gotten more showcase" in the trailers than Cap. QS is in this new trailer for like half a second, as a face shot, and he has like two blink and you'll miss them moments in the first one. Scarlet Witch has only a few tiny shots as well. And Hawkeye got like a second of screentime in the first trailer, and less than that in this one. It's literally him running through the woods (first trailer) and leaning against a tree (this one). That's it.

 

[marcvader]

WHY? Seriously what evidence do we have of that? NONE! Most of the trailers have been Ultron-centric, with only Tony, Hulk, and Widow really getting any kind of focus It in no way indicates that Whedon doesn't know what he's doing with Cap, at all.

And no, QS, SW, and Hawkeye have NOT "gotten more showcase" in the trailers than Cap. QS is in this new trailer for like half a second, as a face shot, and he has like two blink and you'll miss them moments in the first one. Scarlet Witch has only a few tiny shots as well. And Hawkeye got like a second of screentime in the first trailer, and less than that in this one. It's literally him running through the woods (first trailer) and leaning against a tree (this one). That's it.

People have the first Avengers film in their memory and have not had an indicator of a different approach to how Cap is being handled this go around other than knowing the fight coordinator from WS is working on this film. Two trailers in so far there is nothing showing a different take. The leaping over cars and getting beat down by the villain is not much different to what we saw in Avengers. It's ok for a fan of Cap to get a little uneasy about their favorite getting misrepresented again.

 

[Stringer]

It's relative to their prominence in the MCU. The indication that Cap would be given equal trailer time to those secondary characters is troubling. Many posters have said it before, if Whedon has Cap regress to bewilderment like his role in TA after TWS, it's going to be evident and disappointing. And while the trailers have shown nothing to indicate we'll be getting TA Cap they've done nothing to show we'll be getting TWS Cap either.

 

[Stringer]

People have the first Avengers film in their memory and have not had an indicator of a different approach to how Cap is being handled this go around other than knowing the fight coordinator from WS is working on this film. Two trailers in so far there is nothing showing a different take. The leaping over cars and getting beat down by the villain is not much different to what we saw in Avengers. It's ok for a fan of Cap to get a little uneasy about their favorite getting misrepresented again.

Yes, thank you.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Why is Widow or Hawkeye secondary to Cap? Cap has his own solo films where he is the star, Avengers is supposed to be a ensemble film. I agree Cap shouldn't be secondary to the twins, but other Avengers is fine by me.

 

[Suzanne78]

WHY? Seriously what evidence do we have of that? NONE! Most of the trailers have been Ultron-centric, with only Tony, Hulk, and Widow really getting any kind of focus It in no way indicates that Whedon doesn't know what he's doing with Cap, at all.

And no, QS, SW, and Hawkeye have NOT "gotten more showcase" in the trailers than Cap. QS is in this new trailer for like half a second, as a face shot, and he has like two blink and you'll miss them moments in the first one. Scarlet Witch has only a few tiny shots as well. And Hawkeye got like a second of screentime in the first trailer, and less than that in this one. It's literally him running through the woods (first trailer) and leaning against a tree (this one). That's it.

Just to quickly point out, your entire second paragraph is an opinion statement, subject to interpretation. Obviously, others here have a different interpretation of what "showcase" means. I think for many of us, showing even the briefest of clips of Cap's fighting style instead of increasing the amount of IM and Hulk's showdown, might go a ways to assuage our fears about how Whedon will handle Cap in this movie.

Normally, I'm not one to get prematurely worked up about something before the release, but it is a concern I have, and it would be alleviated if Whedon talked a little more in depth about what is going on with Cap in AoU.

Also, if they just give us a wee little taste of Cap's fighting style in the movie.

 

[Suzanne78]

It's relative to their prominence in the MCU. The indication that Cap would be given equal trailer time to those secondary characters is troubling. Many posters have said it before, if Whedon has Cap regress to bewilderment like his role in TA after TWS, it's going to be evident and disappointing. And while the trailers have shown nothing to indicate we'll be getting TA Cap they've done nothing to show we'll be getting TWS Cap either.

Yes. Exactly.

Which is why I keep watching the leaked clip with Cap and Tony talking. Because that is a lot closer to TWS Steve Rogers than anything else in the trailers. It gives me a little hope that Whedon won't regress Cap in favor of "team dynamics". But still... A little more in the trailers would be helpful LOL!!

 

[Stringer]

Yes. Exactly.

Which is why I keep watching the leaked clip with Cap and Tony talking. Because that is a lot closer to TWS Steve Rogers than anything else in the trailers. It gives me a little hope that Whedon won't regress Cap in favor of "team dynamics". But still... A little more in the trailers would be helpful LOL!!

That scene definitely gives me hope for his character in AOU but I'm still haunted by Cap almost getting Stark and everyone on the hellicarrier killed because he couldn't topple one goon with a SMG lol.

 

[BoredGuy]

I have no concerns about Cap kicking some serious ass in this movie
It will happen.. and it will be glorious.

 

[TalismanRing]

Why is Widow or Hawkeye secondary to Cap? Cap has his own solo films where he is the star, Avengers is supposed to be a ensemble film. I agree Cap shouldn't be secondary to the twins, but other Avengers is fine by me.

Because... Captain America is part of the Big Three and is supposed to be the leader of the Avengers, so no he shouldn't be on the same plane let alone secondary to Hawkeye or BW who unlike Hawkeye had plenty of screen time in Avengers (and more to do than Cap) and was almost a co-lead in TWS. And it's not like Thor and Iron Man don't have their own movies and yet there they are with actual lines of dialogue and some big things going on in the trailers. Meanwhile Cap hasn't had one line in any of the trailers and nothing action or visual related in any of the trailers to engender excitement.

In interviews Whedon while talking about other characters has said zip about Steve Rogers (except for one throw away comment where he was said to be a handsome Frankenstein). So far of what we've seen the best thing by far Whedon has done with Cap in terms of character has been left on the cutting room floor, so it's not exactly OMG out of the bounds of all reason that some might question or wonder.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

That scene definitely gives me hope for his character in AOU but I'm still haunted by Cap almost getting Stark and everyone on the hellicarrier killed because he couldn't topple one goon with a SMG lol.

That was... less than ideal.

 

[BoredGuy]

Because... Captain America is supposed to be the leader of the Avengers, so no he shouldn't be on the same plane let alone secondary to Hawkeye or IMO BW who unlike Hawkeye had plenty of screen time in Avengers (and more to do than Cap) and was almost a co-lead in TWS. And it's not like Thor and Iron Man don't have the own movies and yet there they are with actual lines of dialogue and some big things going on in the trailers. Meanwhile Cap hasn't had one line in any of the trailers and nothing action or visual related in any of the trailers to engender excitement.

As far as we've so far, the best thing by far Whedon has done with Cap in terms of character has been left on the cutting room floor, so he's earned a bit of questioning.

I don't agree personally
The shots we HAVE seen of Cap so far in the trailers look like they will be extremely important and emotional
much more so than what we've seen from Hawkeye or even Thor, not to mention the twins and Vision

Just because we haven't heard his dialogue or seen any crazy action scenes yet doesn't mean he's getting cut out
I'd wager that they're saving his good money shots for closer to release.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I liked Cap in the TA Helicarrier scene . I had no idea it was even a "thing".

That said, I fully expect the visceral hand to hand combat and Shield Fu from TWS to be incorporated into Caps repertoire: in AoU and all subsequent films.

There's no way Whedon is gonna ignore the best part of TWS (my current fave MCU film btw). Same editor plus same fight choreographer plus a director who was blown away by the fights in TWS equals CTFO!

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Because... Captain America is part of the Big Three and is supposed to be the leader of the Avengers, so no he shouldn't be on the same plane let alone secondary to Hawkeye or BW who unlike Hawkeye had plenty of screen time in Avengers (and more to do than Cap) and was almost a co-lead in TWS. And it's not like Thor and Iron Man don't have their own movies and yet there they are with actual lines of dialogue and some big things going on in the trailers. Meanwhile Cap hasn't had one line in any of the trailers and nothing action or visual related in any of the trailers to engender excitement.

In interviews Whedon while talking about other characters has said zip about Steve Rogers (except for one throw away comment where he was said to be a handsome Frankenstein). So far of what we've seen the best thing by far Whedon has done with Cap in terms of character has been left on the cutting room floor, so it's not exactly OMG out of the bounds of all reason that some might question or wonder.

Whedon hasn't said zip because he hasn't been asked about Cap. He doesn't just randomly talk about characters, people ask him about what is happening to a character in the film and he responds.

And so what if he is 'big 3' that doesn't mean he gets top 3 focus, cos that didn't happen to Thor last time. The whole point of these films is to allow more focus on other films, this is the Avengers not 'the Big 3 with side characters' People care about seeing Hawkeye and probably more people care about seeing Black Widow and Hulk than Cap considering they don't have solo films.

We know this film leads directly into Civil War and therefore Cap will be an integral part of AoUs story. And there isn't any point talking of action cos we have barely seen any action beyond the Hulkbuster fight.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I liked Cap in the TA Helicarrier scene . I had no idea it was even a "thing".

It doesn't kill the film or anything but it makes Cap look a little bumbling when he gets pinned down by some random mooks with assault rifles. Plus when he fired his own rifle he was spraying it around like he was struggling to control a live fire hose.

But that scene also had the great electricity line so I can forgive.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I hear you. I think in hindsight, much of the action stuff In the MCU is a work in progress.

What was great about TWS is that the fight scenes actually exceeded my already high expectations. In my mind, Caps status as the greatest hand to hand combatant on Earth is an essential part of his personal and power set.

I can rationalize his not-as-impressive moves in TFA and TA to him being a work in progress, and his badassery in TWS to his Taskmaster-like ability to master many new fighting styles in a very short period of time.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

I think the thing is we shouldn't be forgetting in regards to the action scenes at least is Evans for the TWS promotion was going on about how they wanted to make Cap look like he belonged with the Avengers and wanted to up his skill set, I doubt Evans will let his fighting style revert back to A1 and TFA level.

And regards to his story and development, well that clip with Stark is all I need to remove any fears of poor characterization

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Yeah it's not a stretch to assume he was still recovering from the physical & psychological effects of being frozen for decades, then having largely adjusted by the time Winter Soldier rolls around.

That may or may not have been the intent but it's good enough for me.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Well that is certainly my thinking, WW2 fighting style was pretty much just boxing with a bit of judo and jujitsu. Which is pretty much how Cap was fighting in TFA and A1. Then in the two years timeline between A1 and TWS he would have pretty much mastered most combat techniques considering his memory vastly improved with the serum as well.

 

[TalismanRing]

Yeah it's not a stretch to assume he was still recovering from the physical & psychological effects of being frozen for decades, then having largely adjusted by the time Winter Soldier rolls around.

That may or may not have been the intent but it's good enough for me.

According to the timeline he'd been defrosted 2 weeks so I didn't expect his fighting to be better than TFA but he seemed weaker and less effective than TFA. There's no way that guy on the hellicarrier should have been such an issue.

As for explaining his psychological difference they cut the best scene showing how disenfranchised, grieving and alone he was. And Whedon's explanation that the punching bag scene showed the same thing is wrong. It showed he was angry and frustrated, it did not show emotional devastation, disconnect and loss. So later when he's still angry or comes off like a killjoy being humorless and gruff to Stark there's no contrast or context - unless one's seen TFA.

 

[TalismanRing]

Whedon hasn't said zip because he hasn't been asked about Cap. He doesn't just randomly talk about characters, people ask him about what is happening to a character in the film and he responds.

He's spoken about characters without being asked specifics as he's discussing what and who's going to be highlighted in the film.

And so what if he is 'big 3' that doesn't mean he gets top 3 focus, cos that didn't happen to Thor last time.

And there weren't any Thor fans kvetching about that.

The whole point of these films is to allow more focus on other films, this is the Avengers not 'the Big 3 with side characters' People care about seeing Hawkeye and probably more people care about seeing Black Widow and Hulk than Cap considering they don't have solo films.

We just saw Widow extensively in TWS, she was in IM2 and had a huge part in Avengers so she's not exactly hurting for screen time so that she needs to be a bigger focus in Avengers 2. She's most definitely not in the same boat as Hawkeye. Hulk has had two movies, one with the MCU and the reason we're not getting another is because it wasn't successful. They've figure out he works best in an ensemble at least for now.

I think the whole point is to see The Avengers in action is to see the big characters team up. Otherwise there wouldn't be a big deal made about multiple franchises joining to make one. Otherwise they'd be making a team up headlined with Hawkeye, Maria Hill and Rhodey. Yes the Avengers rosters change in the comics - though they always go back to the core - and will change in the future because of contracts or character burn out but the core characters are still what drives it now.

 

[ares834]

That scene definitely gives me hope for his character in AOU but I'm still haunted by Cap almost getting Stark and everyone on the hellicarrier killed because he couldn't topple one goon with a SMG lol.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. After the massive success of TWS though, I expect that Cap will get far more time to shine and won't act like a B-lister this time around.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

That scene definitely gives me hope for his character in AOU but I'm still haunted by Cap almost getting Stark and everyone on the hellicarrier killed because he couldn't topple one goon with a SMG lol.

What? The goon wasn't the issue, the Helicarrier was falling out of the frickin sky and he was trying to avoid falling out of the sky as well. He was fighting two battles at once and still came out on top.

Cap is my favorite superhero and I think he could have been handled better in Avengers, but so could all of the characters. They were handled well enough though, which is why I'm not concerned about their representation in AoU. Everything about this film looks better than the first one. The characters are way more defined and Whedon has more to draw from.

 

[Quasimod0]

Are people forgetting that Cap got the most screen time in the Avengers and was pretty much the number 1 or 2 character? AND he also got some of the best moments, featuring some very "Captain America" lines. Where are all these complaints coming from that Joss doesn't get Cap? He was my favorite character in the first Avengers film.