So, for those of you who have seen the film...
Do the Twins "sound" black or white? And I don't mean the slang they use, which can be any color in the world these days. I mean the voices.
No it mocking blacks via robot caricatures.
It is mocking people (blacks if you insist) with CERTAIN CHARACTERISICS. There is nothing to suggest it is mocking all black people.
Let's say it is indeed mocking black "ghetto" youngsters.
Is the message now "No blacks should ever be mocked"?
Are they immune to being poked fun at?
Nice generalization but some racist actually make fun of blacks.
I'll just repeat my earlier point, but put it in bold.
What's your point? That because many racists use this to stereotype all black people, that Bay making two silly robots like this is his take on all black people?
I'm sorry, that argument just doesn't hold water on a logical level.
Yes, if the only representation of a race is a blatant stereotype there is nothing to balance it out. It's bad enough simply including the ugly stereotype but when it's the sole representation of a race it's even worse.
This is like whining if a movie presents nerds as geeky and doesn't balance it out with a group of cool nerds. Do you know how silly that sounds? And how silly it is that you believe that somehow, people will go to TRANSFORMERS and get ideas about a race that they somehow won't be able to "balance out" with the experiences they've already had in the real world, and other movies, and other experiences they will have?
Not in the same context. The twins are complete buffooons. The most ignorant Transformers by far and they also just happen to speak like they're from the ghetto. What a coincidence.
Oh, I see. So there's never, ever been a black movie character who wasn't portrayed as a complete buffoon for comedic purposes?
That's not "allowed" in cinema, now?
This is nothing new. It's just new to Transformers.
The most ignorant Transformers by far and they also just happen to speak like they're from the ghetto. What a coincidence.
Uh, no. It's not a coincidence. It's intentional.
Are you complaining that this portrayal mocks "Ghetto", that it implies everyone from a ghetto is ignorant, or what?
Why not? Transformers with white personalities are mostly represented as noble and dignified.
I'm sorry..."white personalities"?
Please clarify here. Do you mean Transformers voiced by white actors are depicted as noble?
It says to black kids if they speak slang they're complete morons.
Uh...no. It says to audiences that Mudflap and Skids are complete morons. It makes no judgements or implications beyond that, other than the preconceived notions audiences bring to the theatre.
How does it imply that all people who speak slang are complete morons?
That is akin to me saying that the comic book story of The Joker implies that all failed comedians will become mass murderers.
When you take one of the rare things black kids can use to identify with each other and call them idiots in front of their peers it's worse than saying band geeks are promiscuous or preps are arrogant.
Rare things?
Black kids can only identify with each via slang?
So are you now saying that black kids don't have access to many of the same hobbies, passions, etc, as other kids do? That they somehow have to resort to slang to feel connected to each other?
Also, why is making fun of black kids worse than mocking someone for playing an instrument or studying hard or being smart?
And a Transformer movie is no place to make fun of black kids anyway. It's supposed to be a fun giant robot movie. remember???
I don't think it is making fun of all black kids at all.
Tell me:
Do you think someone who is ignorant, rude, crass, and generally unintelligent is someone to be admired by children? Someone they should aspire to be like?
Actually it holds fine. If you use the same stereotypes as a racist then you're message could easily be conveyed as racist. A racist person mocks blacks in a certain manner and the Bay puts it on screen. Well of course it will be seen as racist also.
Here's the problem. I don't go through life worrying about what people will think if they make a series of ridiculous assumptions. I suspect neither does Michael Bay.
The submissive slave stereotype is outdated but the new stereotypes of blacks as ignorant criminals is just as destructive in it's intent.
Uh...I don't believe Skids and Mudflap are portrayed as ignorant criminals. They seem to be portrayed as posers. People who pretend to be like those who are portrayed as ignorant criminals. Because that's what they seem to think is cool.
Because "ghetto" is a generalization embraced by racist you shouldn't toy with that characterization in a blockbuster movie. Especially when representing the dumbest Transformers. Bragging about not reading is not an acceptable stereotype of black characters.
Uh...
No.
A lot of things have been used by racists, hate groups, you name it. Should we not show characters who believe homosexuality is wrong on television or in movies simply because some hate groups use that element in their arguments? Should we not show criminals at all since some people are actually criminals? Hey, let's just tiptoe around everywhere we go lest someone mistake something we say or do as outright racist and hateful.
And how does two robots saying "We don't really read much" imply that all blacks cannot read? It simply implies that these two cannot read.
If the only Asian robot brags about not being much of a driver and speaks with a chinese accent it implies that's how you interpret asians. Same goes for the twins and the implications of black ignorance.
I see.
So since the only man in much of Y: THE LAST MAN is Yorick, an immature, slightly goofy teenager, is that the only way the writer interprets all men, regardless of his far broader life experience?
I fail to see the logic there.
yeah well I hope something offends and bothers you too. I'm sure then someone can rub your face in it.
Oh come on. It'd be hilarious. She could transform from a syrup bottle in Sam's kitchen, and be this tiny little Decepticon who is nevertheless really loud and obnoxious, and says things like "OH NO HE DI'INT" and "OHHHHH, SNAP!". Why stop with just a few stereotypes?
Look. Of course some things bother me.
But not comedic parodies. Real things. Real instances of hatred and racism, that are designed to intentionally hurt and belittle people directly, to limit their rights, freedoms, etc. Not a filmmaker who thinks he's being cool by touching on a popular cultural movement and bought into the mainstream Hollywood idea that mocking every group he can is a good idea.
I'm all for teaching kids what's right and wrong. I don't, however, believe in telling them what they can and cannot have access to in assessing who they are. It should be up to children to choose how they want to act, and to grow up, and come to terms with those parts of themselves. And to get a thicker skin, in many respects.
I would imagine a lot of kids will like these characters. The ones that don't, either they'll see it for the satire it is, or the reality of what's being implied here about the "ghetto" subculture will hit home.
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