The Van Lente Avengers thread

[TheCorpulent1]

Says you. Anything is plausible in comics. And hell, they've got a magic excuse right here in the mini. Mar-Vell or any of the other flesh-and-blood characters could come back as a result of this mini-series and it wouldn't be any less plausible than the Vision coming back.

 

[Dread]

Magic is always the cover all explanation, which is why some people love it and some people hate it, and why some writers handle it well and others poorly. You can come up with any hokum to resurrect someone with it, whether a ninja ritual or a bunch of flags coming together.

To be fair, the idea of venturing into the underworld to bring back someone who had died is about as old as the Greek myths themselves, and maybe older, least in stories. The downside if there is never any suspense about any consequence lasting, it can shatter that suspension of belief. If "anything is plausible", then nothing is. Just like if everyone is special, no one is.

The last time we saw the original Vision, it was during MIGHTY AVENGERS when Absorbing Man was effecting reality and had him split off from Jonas. In NOVA, the fact that Namorita existed in an area outside of normal space & time's laws was enough of a reason for Nova to bring her back. It seems the CHAOS KING is effecting reality, which is also a "get out of death free" card. At least it works better than Hand ninja rituals or Skrull abductions. Reality warping tends to do the trick almost more than sheer magic, even if it sometimes is related to magic. "Gods change stuff sometimes," isn't that JMS' whole justification of his WONDER WOMAN run?

FYI, Alpha Flight is reuniting; CHAOS WAR brings back the dead founders.

Marvel sure has been resurrection happy, although I will be curious if even Mar-Vell comes back. He's the superhero Uncle Ben, his best feat was dying. It also would continue to make that BOOK OF THE DEAD 2005 handbook worthless, as nearly everyone in it is no longer dead.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Suits me fine, for the most part. I'd rather have characters alive and in limbo than dead. It's always tougher to have guest appearances if a writer would have to concoct a whole resurrection story or excuse first.

 

[Dread]

Fair enough. My heart doesn't bleed for Mar-Vell but I tend to agree. Most of the Alpha Flight cast shouldn't have been iced to begin with. While I may have been curious about Vision's soul status, I have no problem with him reappearing and sharing the same space as Jonas. Many of the other characters have been dead so long that nearly anything can be done with them writing wise; Deathcry was still very close to being a cipher when she entered limbo and then death. Marvel was quite kill-crazy over the past few years, so I suppose it evens out to be a little resurrection happy.

After all, if Hercules is "the god of heroes", maybe he's very lenient with that sort of stuff. I could imagine him staging an Underworld "MARVEL'S GOT TALENT" show to figure out who gets resurrected.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Why bother with the middleman? I'm sure Herc would be happy to just allow all of the dead heroes to come back.

 

[Dread]

You're telling me he wouldn't, say, stage some sort of swimsuit competition or something?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

lulz, okay, you got me there.

 

[bored]

I wonder if this mini will answer once and for all if Hercules and Deathcry ever...got intimate during their space adventures in the 90's. They hung out together for a bit during that era, and while Hercules returned to earth, Deathcry really didn't. The concept of Herc having a half-Shi'ar son somewhere is the sort of thing that I imagine Van Lente or Greg Pak would have oodles of fun with. Especially if he was purple like she is. Being purple doesn't stop Oliver from INVINCIBLE.

I always thought the relationship between Herc and DC was more platonic. He sort of empathized with her as the offspring of royalty exiled to Earth and taken in by the Avengers.

But then, it's well-known that Herc uses his other adamantine mace whenever possible .

 

[Jake Cassidy]

That begs the question.

Who has scored more? Herc or Logan?

 

[runawayboulder]

That begs the question.

Who has scored more? Herc or Logan?

Tony Stark

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Pff, as if. Hercules, obviously. Not only is he more of a poon hound overall than either Tony or Logan, he's had thousands of years to chase tail. Plus, even if it's quality over quantity, who do you think has boned more gods?

 

[runawayboulder]

Pff, as if. Hercules, obviously. Not only is he more of a poon hound overall than either Tony or Logan, he's had thousands of years to chase tail. Plus, even if it's quality over quantity, who do you think has boned more gods?

That's true. Tony's has a lot of skanks and damaged goods throughout the years (Madam Masque, Emma Frost, Kathy Dare, ect).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Herc's got quality, quantity, and, if the myths are true, variety on Logan and Stark.

 

[RockSP]

Tony's has a lot of skanks and damaged goods throughout the years (Madam Masque, Emma Frost, Kathy Dare, ect).

Emma Frost? When did that happen?

 

[bored]

*bump* It was implied during a conversation they had when Stark tried to recruit the X-Men to the Pro-Reg side in "Civil War".

 

[Dread]

Given that a fling between her and Namor has been "implied" for a while, anything is possible.

What're the odds of any of the "Dead Avengers" staying alive after CHAOS WAR, and if so, which ones?

 

[runawayboulder]

Hopefully 100% for Vision.

 

[Iron Man]

I'd love to see the Vision back, and I've always been kinda interested in Doctor Druid too, but I'm not too fussed about the rest.

 

[marcvader]

I miss Vision and Wanda

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, hopefully, Wanda'll be back in another year and a half or however long it takes for Heinberg's Children Crusade mini to finish. Provided Heinberg's not a jerk and he does actually restore Wanda to some kind of usable status.

 

[Dread]

Yes, I do hope Wanda returns to a workable version after AVENGERS: RUGRATS' CRUSADE.

The Vision returning would be somewhat odd. That would mean we'd have the original 1940's Vision, the first android Vision, AND Vision Jr. all existing at the same time.

I am curious if Marvel would take this chance to bring back Mar-Vell. They teased about it during and after CIVIL WAR, only for it to be a Skrull sleeper. It could be seen as diminishing Ms. Marvel, or cementing the "legacy". Since no one is using the Yellowjacket persona, Rita DeMara could return. And Deathcry was one of few Shi'ar characters that the X-office didn't feel they owned lock, stock, and barrel (the other being Cerise from Excalibur).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wouldn't be a big deal for the Vision. Let's be cereal here: The Golden Age Vision is basically falling off the face of the world whenever Ross is done with him. Vision, Jr. can still hang around with the Young Avengers, provided Marvel actually keeps them together and allows people other than Heinberg to use them this time. The Avengers' Vision could go back to being on an Avengers team. Maybe they could give him back his albino look to help differentiate him from Vision, Jr. too.

 

[Dread]

I wouldn't mind the Invaders sticking around like Marvel's JSA, which they are.

Marvel doesn't have to decide what to do with the YOUNG AVENGERS for about another year and change. Hopefully it sells well enough that a real, regular writer gets a chance to handle them, but who knows. They could just return to the fringes.

The idea to return Vision to his "albino" look to separate him from Vision Jr. makes so much sense, there is zero possibility it will ever happen. You know how it goes.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The problem with the Invaders, as opposed to the JSA, is that much of their roster has already been cannibalized into other teams. Alan Scott would feel weird on the JLA, but Steve Rogers, Namor, Spitfire, and Bucky are equally at home on the Avengers, the Defenders, MI-13, etc. They could be on both, I guess, but that makes the Invaders feel kind of like a side gig. Like when they're not doing their real superheroing, they're hanging out with their fellow old fogies in the Invaders.

 

[Dread]

You bring up the Defenders like they've been a viable, active team within the last five years when they clearly haven't. The last time Namor was involved was during the end of the Erik Larson era, and then that random Giffen/DeMatteis/Maguire mini. I mean he even sat out THE LAST DEFENDERS. Namor's been more a part of the X-Men lately than the Defenders.

There are still plenty of Invaders who aren't really engaged in other teams. The Original Vision, Jim Hammond, and Toro are free. Union Jack usually doesn't do a whole lot. And let's be honest; MI-13 won't last much longer without Cornell around. Blade is with the X-Men for now, Spitfire back with the Invaders. Pete Wisdom popped up in STEVE ROGERS: SUPER SOLDIER, but aside for that, it's fringe time.

Sun Girl could have had a lot of potential, but that opportunity likely passed in the 60's. At any rate, they could also have some legacy fun - the Blond Phantom, who was a masked crime fighter of the 40's who later retired and worked with She-Hulk's law firm for a while - has a daughter or grand-daughter who was taking up the mantle, and that subplot went nowhere. It's workable.

I still think the idea of Herc having "gotten down" with Deathcry and there being a half-Shi'ar, half god kid somewhere in the cosmos is too good to pass up. I mean, look at all the half breed kids that Mar-Vell and Hulk spawned over the years, and Herc'd make MORE SENSE.