The Wall Street Protests II

[8wid]

Occupy Oakland protesters disrupt city


They shut down the port near San Francisco!!

 

[DBryan]

Rock on.

 

[Destructus86]

you know...even if it's unorganized. I am ALL for these protests. This country NEEDS some anarchy. It needs disruption. The American people have forgotten how to fight for their own rights against a government that has become too bloated and corrupt. We need another revolution...and since we'll never get one, at least we can have a little chaos to disrupt the system.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

you know...even if it's unorganized. I am ALL for these protests. This country NEEDS some anarchy. It needs disruption. The American people have forgotten how to fight for their own rights against a government that has become too bloated and corrupt. We need another revolution...and since we'll never get one, at least we can have a little chaos to disrupt the system.

 

[The_Raganork]

I read a book from Carl Marx (his manifesto), and I have to say I feel like he had no idea where he was going with things. He did not outline his movement clearly and it sounded like a rant on well practically everything. I remember only a few things in particular that stood out in mind as extra crazy (sharing of women for one).

He sounded like a Tea-Partier/Wall Streeter basically fed up and ranting in every possible direction. Marx himself was an idiot. Other writers came and resurrected his works and shaped them in their image.

I disagree with most of Marxist principles as simply unusable. If you want something that defines our country at this point in history, look to history, not Marx.

Is this serious?

Marx & Engels have defined every major government and political system that has ever existed almost perfectly.

Futhermore the problem with most Americans is that they "hate" socialism and/or communism but have no idea what it actually is and how the former has benefitted this country to such a degree that the idea of abolishing it is almost akin to wiping away years and years of Americana itself.

I avoid talking about Socialism and Communism with people at this point because they are so severely uneducated about it that there's no point in trying to explain it.

The most common argument is "look at Cuba" (which if you took a good look at Cuba you'd have to acknowledge that yes it's not as strong as the U.S. in currency but the Social climate towards minorities employed by the government are extremely progressive) or "Look at the USSR"

History is good to know but, its silly to tell me, an educated person, that because communism and socialism have never "worked" in the past they are inherently wrong, especially when we know that those two examples suffer from misuse of the ideal and the system.

Every American needs to Read: Locke, Hobbes, Rawls and Marx/Engels.

 

[TheDragonator]

^Indeed.

As I said in another thread:
Libraries
Public Transportation
Parks

Are all sort of Socialism.

Hell, even multiple people pitching in to buy a pizza could be seen as socialism.

 

[Quetzal]

Is this serious?

Marx & Engels have defined every major government and political system that has ever existed almost perfectly.

Futhermore the problem with most Americans is that they "hate" socialism and/or communism but have no idea what it actually is and how the former has benefitted this country to such a degree that the idea of abolishing it is almost akin to wiping away years and years of Americana itself.

I avoid talking about Socialism and Communism with people at this point because they are so severely uneducated about it that there's no point in trying to explain it.

The most common argument is "look at Cuba" (which if you took a good look at Cuba you'd have to acknowledge that yes it's not as strong as the U.S. in currency but the Social climate towards minorities employed by the government are extremely progressive) or "Look at the USSR"

History is good to know but, its silly to tell me, an educated person, that because communism and socialism have never "worked" in the past they are inherently wrong, especially when we know that those two examples suffer from misuse of the ideal and the system.

Every American needs to Read: Locke, Hobbes, Rawls and Marx/Engels.

Yes this is serious. I read it a while ago granted (and obviously much of it has slipped my mind since), and I read it in actual German, but the actual writing was so convulated under the parts mostly influenced by Marx that it itself was practically unreadable. There were plenty of parts where it was litterally a run-on rant. Engels I think had wanted to make the Manifesto on his own, but Marx came and influenced it. The version I read included some of Marx's separate transcripted writings and maybe the women thing came from there but I do remember reading that specifically.

And yes I know people don't understand "socialism" isn't out to get them or what the meaning of socialism even is. Again I am half German, and people like to belittle that system as Socialism (which many other Germans dont even consider it a true socialist state) and look how well that works (very well, but you can't point that out here in the U.S.).

Marx himself really was an idiot though. If you look at his writings without influence of other writers he really couldnt define things on his own. It took people like Engels and later the Russians to make something of him.

 

[Destructus86]

Raganork8 knows what he's talking about!

 

[dnno1]

Is this serious?

Marx & Engels have defined every major government and political system that has ever existed almost perfectly.

Futhermore the problem with most Americans is that they "hate" socialism and/or communism but have no idea what it actually is and how the former has benefitted this country to such a degree that the idea of abolishing it is almost akin to wiping away years and years of Americana itself.

I avoid talking about Socialism and Communism with people at this point because they are so severely uneducated about it that there's no point in trying to explain it.

The most common argument is "look at Cuba" (which if you took a good look at Cuba you'd have to acknowledge that yes it's not as strong as the U.S. in currency but the Social climate towards minorities employed by the government are extremely progressive) or "Look at the USSR"

History is good to know but, its silly to tell me, an educated person, that because communism and socialism have never "worked" in the past they are inherently wrong, especially when we know that those two examples suffer from misuse of the ideal and the system.

Every American needs to Read: Locke, Hobbes, Rawls and Marx/Engels.

^Indeed.

As I said in another thread:
Libraries
Public Transportation
Parks

Are all sort of Socialism.

Hell, even multiple people pitching in to buy a pizza could be seen as socialism.

Raganork8 knows what he's talking about!

The truth of the matter is that the capitalist system that we are currently under isn't trully capitalist, since not all means of production are privately owned (nor would any capitalist want to). A perfect example is the nuclear power industry. No private insurance company would cover any nuclear power plant for a disaster such as a melt down of a reactor, so the government insures that. Not every business would want to own and maintain major stretches of highway or railway, so a lot of it is publicly owned. The same thing goes for bank accounts, student loans, defense of our country, and others. If private industry is incompetent or does not want to do something that is necessary to keep the public safe or the economy going, then the government acts by using socialist methods to cover for it. That's the beauty of this system of government and it's perfectly legal.

 

[TheDragonator]

One of the cool things about America is it tries to take the best bits of each type of government to try to make them all work together.

Although, the key word in that sentence is 'try'.

 

[DBryan]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/police-let-a-bmw-driver-go-free-after-intentionall

Apparently a guy driving a BMW purposefully knocked over some people from Occupy Oakland. And the police let him go.

 

[BlackLantern]

he was probably a big contributor to some elected official.....or maybe even an elected official

 

[craigdbfan]

Dbbrayn twisted the story.

The video is out there.

One of the so called "peaceful" protestor starts smashing on the hood when its the drivers right of way to go. They all start to circle the car and the driver started getting worried about his well being.

Of course the driver was let go when he didn't mean to do it. What do you expect for him to do?

Oh yeah just let them surround the car so they can make the driver exit and then let them burn the car. Sounds great.

I like how so many OWS supporters here haven't shown all the damage done to downtown Oakland either.

 

[BlackLantern]

damn

 

[craigdbfan]

How peaceful

If you look closely behind those officers some idiots have written "Kill Cops" and "Kill Pigs" were written somewhere else.

So can someone explain how this hasn't become acts of petty terrorism?

 

[dnno1]

How peaceful

If you look closely behind those officers some idiots have written "Kill Cops" and "Kill Pigs" were written somewhere else.

So can someone explain how this hasn't become acts of petty terrorism?

You've got to be careful about that. There are agitators out there (and the Oakland Police are aware of them) that are causing this. They are not associated with the (peaceful) movement.

 

[chaseter]

But the Tea Party is racist right?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Labeling the protesters as aggressors in the media reminds me a lot of how Mubarak's regime tried to label fellow Egyptians as the same.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Who was that lady during the election who cut something into her face but it was backwards cause she did it in the mirror or something?

 

[chaseter]

I wouldn't be shocked if the media outlets were told to report on the violent side of the Occupy Protests. It sells more.

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]368249[/split]

 

[DBryan]

I mean, thousands have been protesting for over a week now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWBzwIWj7tU

That's Al Jazeera, but is the American media giving sufficient coverage, do you think?

 

[Jack Napier]

I can imagine it'd be a real inconvenience. I just saw a news story the other night about how no one is coming into these restaurants and shops because of the level of disruption.

I don't know if I'm for or against these protests. On one hand, I think it's great that people are protesting something. It is bull**** there's no such thing as a free education anymore. People are racked with thousands of dollars in education fees, no one can afford gas, essential items are overpriced. No one has voiced their dissatisfaction until now.

On the other hand, these police quieting down these demonstrations aren't the 1% and when these protests get violent, they get hurt. They didn't sign on for this.

 

[craigdbfan]

Yeah it's been huge inconvenience for restaurants and shop workers.

People who don't live in Oakland and don't work in that area have no idea how much of a pest these people have been.

Some people don't have time for these tantrums and need to go to work and their lives depend on tips. Guess what's been happening to those people thanks to these OWS "protestors".

Almost no business because those who work in the federal buildings don't even want to step outside to go out and eat.

Some peoples livelihood depend on these tips yet these people could care less. Like I said these people definitely don't represent the 99%, far from it actually.

Reposted due to new thread.

 

[DBryan]

So I've watched the video of the BMW driver knocking over protesters for the first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da3hcJFjlD0

You can see the whole incident starting from about 00:58.

If you think the driver should get away with that, you're an idiot. There's nothing else to it. A comment on the video has it right - that was basically attempted murder. I don't care that a protester was banging on the hood. A measured response to someone banging on your hood isn't to run them over. Plus it seems the protester is banging on the hood 'cause the driver was showing no patience in allowing them to pass.

craigbfan calls the protesters a 'huge inconvenience'.

Dude, the police nearly killed a man for NO reason. That's what's sparked off such big protests and strikes in Oakland. What planet are you living on?