The Wii/Xbox Massacre is Over...but the Console Wars Have Just Begun

[Spidey-Bat]

No, go back and read what ProjectPat and FadingCB said. There's undoubtedly 'hardcore' gamers with that amount of paranoia, but what they said is much closer to where the problem lies from that side of the feild.

It's just speculation brought on by paranoia. As Pandamar said, developers like Bethesda, Ubisoft, Rockstar, etc. aren't going to quit what they're making in favor of party games that make a quick buck.

 

[Fading]

It's just speculation brought on by paranoia. As Pandamar said, developers like Bethesda, Ubisoft, Rockstar, etc. aren't going to quit what they're making in favor of party games that make a quick buck.

It's not paranoia by either of us....

I was just posting a worst case scenario. Like I said before, I have np with casual gamers, and do occasionally buy casual games. Play whatever makes you happy. However it's not paranoia at all to see that the Wii's success is pushing others to follow them. You'd have to be forcefully pretending it's not, otherwise MS and Sony wouldn't be pushing motion control peripherals and casual gaming as hard as they have been recently. That's not paranoia at all to comment on that, it's just commenting on facts. The Wii is successful and others want a piece of that $$ pie.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

It's not paranoia by either of us....

I was just posting a worst case scenario. Like I said before, I have np with casual gamers, and do occasionally buy casual games. Play whatever makes you happy. However it's not paranoia at all to see that the Wii's success is pushing others to follow them.

It was an extreme worst-case scenario, IMO. High Voltage is an example that proves that. The Conduit didn't sell as well as they had hoped but they're already working on another FPS and not some cheap party game.

You'd have to be forcefully pretending it's not, otherwise MS and Sony wouldn't be pushing motion control peripherals and casual gaming as hard as they have been recently.

It won't mean they'll abandon the traditional style of gameplay though. They have to because their projects could be failures.

That's not paranoia at all to comment on that, it's just commenting on facts. The Wii is successful and others want a piece of that $$ pie.

Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of War, Metal Gear Solid, GTA, and God of War are also successful. Their companies are too big to be able to abandon them for cheap party games. The companies that do tend to be small. They may more more per copy of game sold but not enough to support themselves if they were the size of one of those bigger companies.




This pertains to the original topic; Sony isn't turning a profit on the Slim
http://kotaku.com/5344701/sony-losing-money-on-ps3-slim

The hardware business is not a profitable business. Don't believe us, just ask Sony.

When the original PS3 launched, Sony bled money on each PS3 sold. But the manufacturing process improved, and Sony was able to close the gap.

Just as that started to happen, the company is now launching a new hardware iteration. New hardware means new costs. When The Times asked Sony exec Kaz Hirai if Sony was losing money on the PS3 Slim, the exec said this:

If you're just talking about the hardware alone, the quick answer is yes. That makes good headlines, but I don't actually know that that's the true nature of the business that we're all in, whether it's PlayStation, Xbox or the Wii. I think the better indicator is to look at the business as a whole platform, to ask: are you profitable in terms of the hardware, software and peripherals. And the answer to that question is yes on a gross profit level since the last fiscal year.

So the small picture is that the PS3 Slim is not profitable, but the big picture is that PS hardware, games and peripherals are.

Oh, and thanks for the headline, Kaz!

 

[Soapy]

It has to be argued that money speaks tho. Wii Fit is the best selling game of all time. The Wii is selling incredibly fast. Then in the same year MS and Sony both (while they may have been working on it for awhile, they only announced it recently) start pushing motion controls. The Wii's success speaks volumes.

If company a makes an RPGish FPS game it sells for crap on the 360/PS3. Then the same company makes Wii Party Babies and Puppies for Wii for next to nothing and it sells by the truck loads. Which do you think is getting a sequal? Of course a lot of companies want to make fun/good games that gamers enjoy, and many are willing to take a hit to the wallet to do so. However there is a limit, and many game CEOs aren't in it for the gamers, they're buisness men. If they see cheaply made buggy games can sell more than their big budget block busters, some will push the cheaply made games.

Obviously money talks, but the Wii has a very low attach rate compared to the 360 and PS3. Meaning that the majority of people who bought the Wii simply aren't buying games for it. Which translates to, "Good for Nintendo...not so good for third parties."

Actually shovelware doesn't really sell that well at all. That's why they're done quick, dirty, and cheap. Games like that rarely break 50K units sold, which is fine because the publisher is almost making pure profit. But publishers know the BIG bucks lie in games like Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, and Gran Turismo.

It's not paranoia by either of us....

I was just posting a worst case scenario. Like I said before, I have np with casual gamers, and do occasionally buy casual games. Play whatever makes you happy. However it's not paranoia at all to see that the Wii's success is pushing others to follow them. You'd have to be forcefully pretending it's not, otherwise MS and Sony wouldn't be pushing motion control peripherals and casual gaming as hard as they have been recently. That's not paranoia at all to comment on that, it's just commenting on facts. The Wii is successful and others want a piece of that $$ pie.

I've posted this before, but Microsoft and Sony are foolish for believing that they can poach Wii owners. The reason the Wii has been successful is because it's simple. People play Wii to have short bursts of fun, not to interact with digital little boys or "touch" a virtual world. They don't care about that. They don't care about BluRay, they don't care about Netflix, they don't care about online gaming, they don't care about graphics, they don't care about being part of a "community", they don't care about artsy indie titles, they don't care about downloadable content, etc... I could go on and on and on and on.

Everything that Microsoft and Sony have in their favor is exactly what the average Wii owner doesn't give a **** about. Motion control will not change that.

 

[Tron Bonne]

It's just speculation brought on by paranoia. As Pandamar said, developers like Bethesda, Ubisoft, Rockstar, etc. aren't going to quit what they're making in favor of party games that make a quick buck.

No, you're missing the point. Maybe I misunderstood FadingCB since he seems he was more on that wavelength, but what Pat said is still very valid. It's not some fact that all that's going to be made is shovelware, it's about changing games (or dumbing them down if you will) to a more casual audience to most rational gamers who have the hardcore lean. We can already seeing this happening with most games difficultly levels. Compared to just a few years ago the majority of games are pathetically easy and have almost no learning curve. I mean Halo or Gears on their highest settings are a joke compared to a lot of the NES/SNES and probably even some of the PS1/N64 era titles.

We're talking about two very different groups who want two very different things. When one is in 'control' of the market the other side is going to lose some of what they want. It's simple economics really. It's not paranoia because we can already see it happening in several things. Those games aren't going to vanish in a puff, that was never a real issue outside obvious paranoia, but that doesn't mean that game can't be 'brought down' to cater to another crowd. RPGs becoming more shooter and action-oriented, 'realistic' and sim type games becoming more arcadey in style, RTS's cutting away managements; more emphasis on 'fun' of a title instead of depth is what it boils down to most of the time.

Not to say hardcore titles will disappear of course, but it's the ideal of minimization over obsoleteness. You probably don't get it because you have a more casual lean so you don't see the problem. For those who tend to lean the other way they see a problem. Sure, there are the radicals, but they are few and far between. It just fits your stereotype of them in the same way the far side casual gamer who wants nothing but silly fluff games to play around with over and over and never tries anything new fits the other sides stereotype.

It's mostly a sense of perspective

 

[KALEL114]

However, IMO, it's simply too soon for PS3 sales to soar. It's at the right price point, it's got great games, and more features for the $$ than the other consoles...however not everyone knows this. Not everyone goes online to read about German game conferences. Most won't know about the price drop unless they stumble across it in stores, or by word of mouth.

At Christmas when friends/family are looking for good gifts, yeah I see a sales spike. I just don't see anything huge inbetween then. I mean sale will go up, especially the first week or two after the drop, and sales will permanently stay higher than they have been. I just don't see the PS3 suddenly getting Wii sales on a regular basis.

They are about to go in to advertisement overdrive.

Sony is to launch an £82m pan-European marketing campaign for the PlayStation 3, firing the first advertising salvo against rivals Nintendo Wii and Microsoft Xbox as consumers start to think about presents for Christmas 2009.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/aug/25/sony-ps3-advertising

I'm sure other regions are on the horizon as well.

 

[Fading]

No, you're missing the point. Maybe I misunderstood FadingCB since he seems he was more on that wavelength,

You didn't misunderstand. I guess my last two posts were more defusal posts with different points (playing devils advocate in a way) than the first post I had in this thread. I didn't want them to think I was some paranoid hardcore gamer that clenches his fist everytime a new Wii babies title drops. Of course apparently it was taken that way anyway heh.

You put it better tho, it's not that everything will become shovelware, it's that publishers....nm lol. I'll just say I agree with how you worded it lol.

They are about to go in to advertisement overdrive.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/aug/25/sony-ps3-advertising

I'm sure other regions are on the horizon as well.

"£82m pan-European marketing campaign", yeah I'd say overdrive. Let's just hope they don't make the same mistakes as a lot of ad campaign's do. Either oversaturating a specific channel where you see a commercial from them every other commercial break. Or spacing it out so weirdly that many ppl never see a commercial for it. Every since I finally quit watching wrestling tho I stopped watching TV altogether tho lol, so don't think I'll catch any of the commercials myself.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

I work in retail, so videogames are a major part of my job.. that is, if I'm not focusing on selling cameras/computers.. x_X;

Anyway, as far as adding on controllers/games, the Wii has the most potential.. unfortunetly. You get the console, you have to grab another set of controllers for a second person, you might grab the Wii Sports: Resort with another Wii Motion Plus controller, plus anyother games they might want (although wii sports/wii sports: resort are usually just enough).

With the PS3 and XBOX 360, it's tough to get people buy extra games/controllers. You try to tell the people that NOTHING is included, and they just look at me as if i'm stupid or something? I don't understand it: "I'm gonna purchase a new game system, except no games and no extra controller for my brother/sister/friends to play along. " X_x;

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I´m all for the PS3 kicking Microsoft in the teeth, but, then again, i already explained why.

 

[StrainedEyes]

I´m all for the PS3 kicking Microsoft in the teeth, but, then again, i already explained why.

Microsoft bad, grr.

 

[Fading]

About buying an extra controller for a PS3, I can understand why ppl don't. Usually if I play games with friends it's at a big lan party with beer and pizza. It's not often anymore (at 26) that I invite ppl over to play multi player games, when I was still in school tho sure. For the most part I just play single player games. However I did buy another when the Dualshock came out, and one more just in case a few months later. So I have 3 controllers now, but the other 2 rarely see use.

As for other peripherals, I think the last major one I bought was a guncom for PS1 lol. I was tempted to buy the PS3 one until I learned it only worked for one game....However if they implement games like that sword and shield demo from E3, I might finally break down and get a PS3 Eye and also the motion control wands when they come out.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Microsoft bad, grr.

You are missing the point, i love my 360, that´s why i´m begining to lose respect for Microsoft.
Microsoft is not bad, at this point, they are just stupid.
You said, in the other thread, that they pay for exclusive DLC, and that´s great, but, when all you do is that, well.....it becames stupid.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

You are missing the point, i love my 360, that´s why i´m begining to lose respect for Microsoft.
Microsoft is not bad, at this point, they are just stupid.
You said, in the other thread, that they pay for exclusive DLC, and that´s great, but, when all you do is that, well.....it becames stupid.

How is getting exclusive DLC stupid. It probably costs less than exclusive game rights, but the hardcore gamers see it as just as good. Seriously if you had both a PS3 and 360 and were going to get Fallout 3, what would you buy it on, the PS3 where it's just the game or 360 where you get the game and if you want 5 expansion packs.

 

[Havok83]

How is getting exclusive DLC stupid. It probably costs less than exclusive game rights, but the hardcore gamers see it as just as good. Seriously if you had both a PS3 and 360 and were going to get Fallout 3, what would you buy it on, the PS3 where it's just the game or 360 where you get the game and if you want 5 expansion packs.

or get it on the PS3 and wait for the DLC to come over

 

[ProjectPat2280]

or get it on the PS3 and wait for the DLC to come over

Or get it on the 360 and play the DLC as soon as it dropped. Why wait?

 

[StrainedEyes]

The Modern Warfare 2 DLC is coming out on 360 first as well, it's just a nice bonus that MS chooses to pay for.

 

[Havok83]

Or get it on the 360 and play the DLC as soon as it dropped. Why wait?

nah just showing that the PS3 isnt missing out on the Fallout DLC as it is coming to the system. I think thats one of the points IH was trying to make with MS simply going after all these timed exclusive DLC

 

[ProjectPat2280]

nah just showing that the PS3 isnt missing out on the Fallout DLC as it is coming to the system. I think thats one of the points IH was trying to make with MS simply going after all these timed exclusive DLC

Ah, i just assumed he was talking about the timed stuff and using that as a reason to go with one system or the other. If Fallout was getting DLC you were interested in, and you had both systems, go with the one that'd give you that DLC or give it to you first.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

Microsoft needs to ease up on the DLC.. way too damned expensive.