They Say He Drinks Blood: The Rumours and Speculation Thread

[Loden Greatstorm]

I heard that Batman is gonna fight the Sinister Six in this next one.

Sounds intense!

 

[Da-Scribe]

Late to the party here.
I think the question with Clayface is whether we as the audience are meant to know when it's the real character vs the impersonator. If we're meant to be in on it, I do think it'd be cool to see the actual actor under prosthetics doing the impressions, but it'd take one helluva talent to not break our suspension of disbelief. I don't doubt Marino's ability with makeup at all.

On the flip side, if we're supposed to be in the dark, then going Mission Impossible style is probably the way. But if they do that, I'd like more moments where we see character breaks. So as examples, Pattinson acting like whichever character is playing Clayface or Clayface rehearsing so we see that actor mimicking Pattison's acting style. With the former, even subtle tells would great just to give us something to look out for on rewatches.

 

[Gandhi]

From the latest Batman-On-Film article about Barry Keoghan’s comments.

 

[godisawesome]

I really hope they embrace the way the flooded Gotham/pseudo-No Man's Land situation could be used for storytelling, though I think Reeves would smartly focus more on Gotham simply being a devastated city with a desperately overtaxed and inadequate infrastructure and city government/National Guard. You could still have whole neighborhoods, ghettos, and districts abandoned or "occupied" by gangs (which could even be used to build up Penguin in his show.)

- You could have this excuse why someone like Hugo Strange might wield ludicrous authority in Arkham Asylum if the government doesn't have the time or resources to mind him.
- The Court of Owls could be exposed by how they react to the situation, or by how some of their hiding places have been revealed.
- You could have Dick Grayson introduced already somewhat formed into Robin by having him rob gangsters to feed the poor and tagging his work with an R for Robin Hood, and use the chaos of the city to explain why he's adapted, hasn't been caught, and why Batman might need his help.
- You could use this to create the "Bruce Wayne is a major philanthropist" interpretation.

Etc.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Anyone else worried this might get delayed? A script hasn't turned in, no casting announcements, no filming date set... It's all a little worrying.

 

[Gandhi]

Anyone else worried this might get delayed? A script hasn't turned in, no casting announcements, no filming date set... It's all a little worrying.

I’d only be worried if the script was still far from completion. They’ve been working on it for well over a year now so (fingers crossed ) hopefully, it’s just about finished.

I’d say they have until about June at the latest to start filming and still make the October release date. I’m hoping in January that we get an announcement it’s officially gone into pre-production.

I don’t know how reliable it is or when the information was updated but this week’s edition of Production Weekly has the start date listed as May 2024.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I’d only be worried if the script was still far from completion. They’ve been working on it for well over a year now so (fingers crossed ) hopefully, it’s just about finished.

I’d say they have until about June at the latest to start filming and still make the October release date. I’m hoping in January that we get an announcement it’s officially gone into pre-production.

I don’t know how reliable it is or when the information was updated but this week’s edition of Production Weekly has the start date listed as May 2024.

Interesting... hopefully we get some casting news in early 2024.

 

[Gandhi]

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Could care less about Hush but Dick Grayson would be the best case scenario.

 

[Invader Joker]

Could care less about Hush but Dick Grayson would be the best case scenario.

I wondering how he could go about Dick.
I really, really doubt, especially with Brave and the Bold, it'd be a mega traditional take on the character where Bruce adopts him and has him living on the manor and then they both go out at night fighting crime together or whatever and the whole movie is about them bonding as father and son or something. A take that crosses my mind is maybe he's a teenager that he uses to help him out on all the mega-tedious surveillance work Bruce wouldn't have time to do anymore as the Drifter because of being more involved at Wayne Enterprises.

In The Wire, something that ended up striking me is how many kids there were working on corners and actively working as soldiers for mobsters and stuff like that, so maybe Bruce could use a teenager like Dick to also work undercover and gets as much info as possible. Bermejo and Azzarrello played around with that idea on a Batman: Black and White comic.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Frankly if they have Robin in a movie they just need to do Robin. I’ll pull my hair out of Batman is friends with a little orphan boy who hacks computers and goes by @daboooi1der

 

[Invader Joker]

Frankly if they have Robin in a movie they just need to do Robin. I’ll pull my hair out of Batman is friends with a little orphan boy who hacks computers and goes by @daboooi1der

Not hacking! Just doing surveillance work on the field like how detectives do and how Bruce used to do as The Drifter. Bruce wouldn't have time to do any of that any more if he's gonna focus more on the whole Wayne Enterprises business.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I actually think given the extreme acrobatics and pretty comic book action in The Batman that Robin fits totally fine. It ain’t Aronofsky Batman or anything super duper crazy grounded, it’s still incredibly OTT when it comes to that stuff. Also feel like a Reevesverse Robin costume would look super cool.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Not hacking! Just doing surveillance work on the field like how detectives do and how Bruce used to do as The Drifter. Bruce wouldn't have time to do any of that any more if he's gonna focus more on the whole Wayne Enterprises business.

Oh yeah, I wasn't commenting on your idea in particular, just my preference is having Robin fight crime right along side Batman or not at all. No half measure.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Oh yeah, I wasn't commenting on your idea in particular, just my preference is having Robin fight crime right along side Batman or not at all. No half measure.

This. It doesn’t have to be the exact classic Robin story, I don’t even really care too much if it’s Dick Grayson, but it needs to hit both the key emotional beats of it and also commit to Robin as a concept.

Pattinson’s Bruce becoming an unexpected father figure is also just such a perfect situation to put him in. I think he’s okay it beautifully. I suspect Brave and the Bold wouldn’t have the story it does if this was the plan, but it’s still my Ideal for the sequel.

 

[Invader Joker]

I actually think given the extreme acrobatics and pretty comic book action in The Batman that Robin fits totally fine. It ain’t Aronofsky Batman or anything super duper crazy grounded, it’s still incredibly OTT when it comes to that stuff. Also feel like a Reevesverse Robin costume would look super cool.

I don't think so at all, especially when reading Reeves comments around the logic behind the fight scenes for the first movie. He stressed the "realism" part in regards to that a lot and instructed Alonzo to lean into it as much as possible. Whether he actually succeeded or not—you remain the judge, but that was Reeves explicit intention, it's something he talked a lot about in the director's commentary too.

Matt Reeves : "J’ai dit à Warner Bros. de me laisser faire le film Batman définitif"



And I think you can indeed see this reflected on things like the amount of blows that Bruce takes when getting into fights. I think that specifically is what makes the whole idea of Robin fighting like he does in the comics seem to me like something that'd be completely unappealing to Reeves; even a super-skilled adult combatant like Bruce got his licks and even Catwoman got her ass beat twice. So on that context the idea of a teenager being able to take down a room full of thugs sounds like something that'd just clash too hard with his intentions to ever be something he'd want to do.

 

[Invader Joker]

also my mistake, Catwoman got beat up 3 times in the movie lol She lost her initial fight with Batman, then she got knocked out by Falcone, and in the ending she ended up being overpowered by the random Riddler thug. If even a character like Catwoman he handles that way during action scenes I really question how big his interest would be in putting a teenager with minimal training to be able to fight the way Robin does in the comics.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I don't think so at all, especially when reading Reeves comments around the logic behind the fight scenes for the first movie. He stressed the "realism" part in regards to that a lot and instructed Alonzo to lean into it as much as possible. Whether he actually succeeded or not—you remain the judge, but that was Reeves explicit intention, it's something he talked a lot about in the director's commentary too.

Matt Reeves : "J’ai dit à Warner Bros. de me laisser faire le film Batman définitif"

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And I think you can indeed see this reflected on things like the amount of blows that Bruce takes when getting into fights. I think that specifically is what makes the whole idea of Robin fighting like he does in the comics seem to me like something that'd be completely unappealing to Reeves; even a super-skilled adult combatant like Bruce got his licks and even Catwoman got her ass beat twice. So on that context the idea of a teenager being able to take down a room full of thugs sounds like something that'd just clash too hard with his intentions to ever be something he'd want to do.

Reeves is talking a big game there and while he conveyed the feeling he's talking about the action sequences are so intensely over the top that I don't think that is the only thing he's going for. It comes off as more being about impact rather than realism. Battinson's fighting is way more OTT than any Batman except for I suppose Affleck. I have no issue with this, I actually like it, but he flies around like a ****ing ninja and absolutely tanks gunfire. He gets his **** wrecked a few times and Reeves does a good job of visually selling why those incidents do more damage than others but on an action level there is clearly some standard action movie stuff at play. If anything I'd expect Battinson to become more of a complete wrecking machine in sequels given he is already 85% of the way there.

TLDR: He uses the word "realism" there but what he's saying when he goes into detail has more to do with impact. Bruce looks like he's fighting strategically, when he is fully wailing on someone it looks like it hurts and he doesn't seem particularly in control. That is more nuanced than just straightforward realism.

also my mistake, Catwoman got beat up 3 times in the movie lol She lost her initial fight with Batman, then she got knocked out by Falcone, and in the ending she ended up being overpowered by the random Riddler thug. If even a character like Catwoman he handles that way during action scenes I really question how big his interest would be in putting a teenager with minimal training to be able to fight the way Robin does in the comics.

Sure, and Robin would probably get wrecked a few times as well. You may well be right but in my opinion the idea of let's say a fifteen or sixteen year old being able to fight grown men is totally within the bounds of the kind of heightened reality the first movie took place in. There's no reason you couldn't choreograph an interesting, dynamic style of fight sequence that sells it.

The storytelling potential of Robin makes asking the audience who is already massively and fundamentally suspending their disbelief for Batman as a concept entirely worth it, IMO. It is the best and most important Batman story you can tell. Battinson isn't the most obvious candidate to tell it with but that is what makes him the best one. I don't even think the fundamental question of "Is this believable?" is particularly worth asking - of course it can be, all you need to do is sell it emotionally and make the action sequences featuring him effective.

 

[Invader Joker]

Sure, and Robin would probably get wrecked a few times as well. You may well be right but in my opinion the idea of let's say a fifteen or sixteen year old being able to fight grown men is totally within the bounds of the kind of heightened reality the first movie took place in. There's no reason you couldn't choreograph an interesting, dynamic style of fight sequence that sells it.

The storytelling potential of Robin makes asking the audience who is already massively and fundamentally suspending their disbelief for Batman as a concept entirely worth it, IMO. It is the best and most important Batman story you can tell. Battinson isn't the most obvious candidate to tell it with but that is what makes him the best one. I don't even think the fundamental question of "Is this believable?" is particularly worth asking - of course it can be, all you need to do is sell it emotionally and make the action sequences featuring him effective.

Beyond the fact that I don't think the traditional take on Robin would be the most natural fit for this universe nor something I think Reeves would be particularly interested in, I also tend to think that if this were to be a traditional take on Robin, Brave and the Bold wouldn't be the DCU Batman movie James Gunn would be making. Sure, one is Dick and another is Damian, but if the concept of "child sidekick" and "Batman learns to be a father to his teenage sidekick" is the same one after another in two different takes, it'd be way too repetitive. I think Reeves will do something a lot more idiosyncratic with this and I expect his take on Robin to be his biggest reinvention yet. The emotional core I expect to be the same—everything surrounding it I doubt it. I don't think we'll have this big fight scene with Batman and Robin fighting together. Not in this film, at least.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Beyond the fact that I don't think the traditional take on Robin would be the most natural fit for this universe nor something I think Reeves would be particularly interested in, I also tend to think that if this were to be a traditional take on Robin, Brave and the Bold wouldn't be the DCU Batman movie James Gunn would be making. Sure, one is Dick and another is Damian, but if the concept of "child sidekick" is the same one after another in two different takes, it'd be repetitive.

To be fair, there's a big gap between purely traditional and him still being Robin. I would expect the design, story, etc. to be tweaked heavily he just also needs to be Robin. In the same way the other characters might be more grounded versions of themselves but are ultimately the classic character at their core.

For what it's worth I actually agree. The Brave & The Bold strikes me as being designed in part to not tread on Reeves's toes right out the gate, hence why it inevitably will probably focus more on the Al-Ghuls than the other classic rogues (or not, who knows, but that's my assumption) and heavily feature the Bat Family. My personal fanboy preference is just for Reeves to tackle some of the Bat Family stuff (realistically just Robin) because it's the element of Batman I find most interesting. That fanboy preference is outweighed by my desire for Reeves to surprise me though.

It'll be a really weird, interesting contrast in tone and style inevitably if Reeves does the Grayson story and Gunn/Alleged Brave & The Bold Director Andy Muschietti Who Is Totally Def Gonna Make It do Damian.

 

[Invader Joker]

To be fair, there's a big gap between purely traditional and him being Robin. I would expect the design, story, etc. to be tweaked heavily he just also needs to be Robin. In the same way the other characters might be more grounded versions of themselves but are ultimately the classic character at their core.

Yeah I think he'll still ultimately be Batman's sidekick and son-figure, but even with that core concept there is a lot you can play around with an approach like Matt's. One thing that Matt does seem to prioritize a lot is the concept of practicality: How would a real life vigilante operate? And that's why something like the take I pitched strikes me as something that Reeves might do or something along those lines. If Robin essentially is just doing all the work Bruce was doing as the Drifter and is out in the field helping Bruce with detective work and stuff but not really barging into action or getting into fights—that'd still count as being Batman's sidekick and being a great help to him, while remaining fairly in line with the philosophy this universe was built upon.
I mean, if you think about it, if you were to put a teenager to help you in a crime fighting crusade, logically it wouldn't make sense to put them in the fights next to you where if anything having to worry about a teen not getting beat up while you're fighting too would be more a hinderance than anything else. That's the exact sort of mentality Matt had in the first movie about many, many things when crafting his universe and that I expect for him to retain when doing the sequel.

It'll be a really weird, interesting contrast in tone and style inevitably if Reeves does the Grayson story and Gunn/Alleged Brave & The Bold Director Andy Muschietti Who Is Totally Def Gonna Make It do Damian.

Yeah, that's why I think that if he were to do something as idiosyncratic as this instead of the whole "He signs the papers to adopt him and he lives with him and then takes him into the Batmobile so they both fight criminals together one on one" it'd make the most sense. Would make the contrast even more radical on a fundamental level.

 

[Johnny Frost]

From DanielRPK's Patreon:

"I hear the plan is to start filming late Summer 2024.

They will start casting from Feb after script is done. Plan is for everyone from the first film that survived to return including some characters from The Penguin show. And I do hear the plan to have Dick Grayson and Hush. I remember that was rumored I believe Jeff Sneider said it. So I can confirm I heard the same."

 

[Boom]

If we're taking "late summer" literally that would mean August or September. Assuming a four-month shoot, they'd be wrapping production around December/January. I'm feeling less optimistic about that October 2025 release date if this is the case.

As for the other rumors, I think I would rather see Reeves adapt Dick Grayson but not Robin. Personally I'm really having a hard time visualizing Robin in this continuity. That'll have to be a proof of concept thing if/when Reeves crosses that bridge. But for now, I'd be happy just seeing Bruce Wayne evolve as a father figure without his ward suiting up with him.

 

[Gothamsknight]

From DanielRPK's Patreon:

"I hear the plan is to start filming late Summer 2024.

They will start casting from Feb after script is done. Plan is for everyone from the first film that survived to return including some characters from The Penguin show. And I do hear the plan to have Dick Grayson and Hush. I remember that was rumored I believe Jeff Sneider said it. So I can confirm I heard the same."

Really really excited to hear that Dick Grayson is gonna be introduced. I have some reservations about Hush due to his similiarites to the Riddler we got in The Batman, but nonetheless I'm still excited. I have a feeling Reeves is gonna combine clayface/Hush.

 

[C Prometheus]

If we're taking "late summer" literally that would mean August or September. Assuming a four-month shoot, they'd be wrapping production around December/January. I'm feeling less optimistic about that October 2025 release date if this is the case.

As for the other rumors, I think I would rather see Reeves adapt Dick Grayson but not Robin. Personally I'm really having a hard time visualizing Robin in this continuity. That'll have to be a proof of concept thing if/when Reeves crosses that bridge. But for now, I'd be happy just seeing Bruce Wayne evolve as a father figure without his ward suiting up with him.

Honestly I think Reeves will be fine with the release date, so long as the film starts filming in the summer.

Obviously we all remember the lengthy production and post-production for The Batman, but Reeves has done just fine with shorter production cycles before with Dawn of the Planet of the Apes. When he made Dawn, casting took place between February and March 2013 with the only carryover casting from the first film being Andy Serkis. Principal photography commenced that April and lasted until that July and the film came out a year later in July 2014.

That said, if we see a delay, I'd wager it would still be rather brief and just bump the film into either November or December. Considering Gunn is so bullish about The Batman, Pt 2 being an "Elseworlds" project like the Joker films and the recurring talk this year of the Batman Saga being an "Epic Crime Saga," I think it's a safe bet that the plan is to market the series first and foremost as a prestige title to appeal to the Awards seasons, so that the DCU Batman stuff can focus more in the general blockbuster space.

As for Dick, I completely agree. If we see him become Robin in this continuity, that's fine with me, but frankly I am far more interested in seeing Reeves dive into the foster father-son dynamic between him and Bruce in this continuity. Which is why I find it odd that some folks aren't interested in seeing this Bruce actually adopt Dick and want Reeves to do something different.

Would this Bruce be a terrible parent? Yes, of course he would. That'd be the whole point IMO- he adopts Dick in the spur of the moment after reliving his own personal trauma and makes a life changing decision that impacts the both of them purely off a visceral response he has to directly empathizing with Dick's circumstances and then only realizes the obvious faults in logic at play after the fact and then have to learn to work at being a proper father. Plus I think it'd be an especially poignant character beat for this particular iteration of Bruce coming off the experiences he had in the first film after learning about Selina and Ed's experiences as orphans and how differently their lives were shaped due to the economic disparity between them and Bruce.

From DanielRPK's Patreon:

"I hear the plan is to start filming late Summer 2024.

They will start casting from Feb after script is done. Plan is for everyone from the first film that survived to return including some characters from The Penguin show. And I do hear the plan to have Dick Grayson and Hush. I remember that was rumored I believe Jeff Sneider said it. So I can confirm I heard the same."

It definitely seems to me like Reeves is doubling down on the Jeph Loeb influences for his interpretation of Batman. Obviously I'm sure he'll continue to pull from other comics and iterations too, but if the rumors are true that we'll be seeing Dick and Hush here, the safest bet is that we'll be seeing a fair bit of influence from Dark Victory and Hush.