Thought experiment: How would you pitch a version of Batman in Todd Philips Joker universe

[eon001]

I now the instant reaction is title going to be "F*** NO!!!", but This is a thought experiment guy's. Lets have a bit of fun and pretend we're Warner Bros execs.

I think there's a way to bring in Batman in the Joker-verse/DC Black Label, and remain true the tone of the Joker. I would treat batman as if he's a mysterious unstoppable killer in a slasher movie, but all his victims are criminals and we tell the story from the POV of the criminals.

Kinda like Scream, but with a more competent and dangerous antagonist and the victims are muggers and gangsters.

Maybe have a Gotham cop or hard boiled detective (Jim Gordon?) as another pov character that's hunting down this mysterious vigilante.

Edit: Misspelled Todd Phillips name in the title. Mods can I edit this?!

 

[Invader Joker]

Exactly the same way he's in the comics. Maybe a bit more physically vulnerable, maybe with similar struggles to the Telltale Bruce Wayne but the character would remain the same. Same extended origins, same rules, same MO, same philosophy , everything.

Joker's universe doesn't change that.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Well, if i was chosen to do a sequel with Batsy and bring him into Joker-verse, first i wouldn't make him young. I would make a sequel set some 30 or 40 years after, based in The Dark Knight Returns. An older Bruce fighting the same thing his father fought, with a city hating him and fearing him and a revolution happening again. Would be nice to have the Birth and Death of Joker and Batman as a duology of films.

Second, i would make the Joker return. I know dude would be old af, but i really would like to see those two on screen. Maybe just a mastermind controlling everything and Batsy trying to stop him one last time.

Third, i would make the entire film about the final battle between those two. I would make this version of Batman similar to Affleck, but more realistic No epic choreographic battles. 100% realistic. Totally different from any superhero movie before. Full character study of Bruce Wayne and his trauma and how this version of Joker ruined his life. An angry and realistic Batman.

Fourth, i would make his suit blue and gray, like the original comics. Full retro style to match Joker's vibrant colours.

And last, i would make the whole final battle between the Sons of Batman and Joker followers. Full TDKR style.

I once made a script of this idea after reading the original Joker script. Sounds stupid, i know.

 

[FunkMiller]

Any Batman in this universe wouldn’t be a superhero, jumping off rooftops and grappling up walls. He’d be a psychotic vigilante, with severe emotional issues.

He wouldn’t wear a cape, because in a realistic universe like this one, a cape would get you killed pretty quickly in any street combat. He wouldn’t wear a full cowl either, as it restricts both hearing and vision. He’d probably retain the bat logo on his body armour though. It’s realistic to suggest a disturbed vigilante would conjure up an alter ego of a ‘bat man’. It’s a potential trait of disassociation disorder, which he’d probably suffer from.

He’d be a killer... because again, in a realistic, nihilistic universe like this one, it’d be the only way to make him believable as a vigilante in such a dangerous city.

In short, in the universe as created in Joker... Batman would be The Punisher.

If you accept that the universe of the Joker movie is as grounded and realistic as possible, then you have to accept that what we all consider to be Batman isn’t all that possible. You can have a realistic, psychology damaged vigilante under the guise of the ‘bat man’ ....but not the fantasy superhero Batman.

 

[Invader Joker]

Any Batman in this universe wouldn’t be a superhero, jumping off rooftops and grappling up walls. He’d be a psychotic vigilante, with severe emotional issues.

He wouldn’t wear a cape, because in a realistic universe like this one, a cape would get you killed pretty quickly in any street combat. He wouldn’t wear a full cowl either, as it restricts both hearing and vision. He’d probably retain the bat logo on his body armour though. It’s realistic to suggest a disturbed vigilante would conjure up an alter ego of a ‘bat man’. It’s a potential trait of disassociation disorder, which he’d probably suffer from.

He’d be a killer... because again, in a realistic, nihilistic universe like this one, it’d be the only way to make him believable as a vigilante in such a dangerous city.

In short, in the universe as created in Joker... Batman would be The Punisher.

If you accept that the universe of the Joker movie is as grounded and realistic as possible, then you have to accept that what we all consider to be Batman isn’t all that possible. You can have a realistic, psychology damaged vigilante under the guise of the ‘bat man’ ....but not the fantasy superhero Batman.

I still don't grt why you think this Batman would be any different from Telltale and Earth One. He's always lived in a dark and gritty world.

 

[hellblazer103]

Easy.

Have Phillips adapt the Miller/Aronofsky Year One script.

 

[-JKR-]

I would throw Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" on the execs' desk . It doesn't get more down to Earth and non-superhero-y than that.

 

[Invader Joker]

I would throw Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" on the execs' desk . It doesn't get more down to Earth and non-superhero-y than that.

Aaaand this I don't get either.

That version of Batman is even more unrealistic than the Batman we know. Someone that trained in the streets with a mechanic would get immediately killed if he tried to be a vigilante.

How is what's essentially a street rat superhero more realistic than a child prodigy that trained for 15 years becoming a great athlete, fighter, engineer and so on before fighting crime? People with pretty high levels of IQ exist, people that can do impressive athletic things exist, great fighters exist. Batman is just all that rolled into one. It requires a lot of happenstance but he can physically exist. And someone that physically prepared and intelligent has a way, way bigger chance of living doing the things Batman does than Aronofsky's bizarre version.

I legitimately don't get why you guys mention that version of Batman as if it's the realistic one; it's really not any more realistic than the traditional version. If anything it's just one that'd get killed quicker.

 

[-JKR-]

Aaaand this I don't get either.

That version of Batman is even more unrealistic than the Batman we know. Someone that trained in the streets with a mechanic would get immediately killed if he tried to be a vigilante.

How is what's essentially a street rat superhero more realistic than a child prodigy that trained for 15 years becoming a great athlete, fighter, engineer and so on before fighting crime? People with pretty high levels of IQ exist, people that can do impressive athletic things exist, great fighters exist. Batman is just all that rolled into one. It requires a lot of happenstance but he can physically exist. And someone that physically prepared and intelligent has a way, way bigger chance of living doing the things Batman does than Aronofsky's bizarre version.

I legitimately don't get why you guys mention that version of Batman as if it's the realistic one; it's really not any more realistic than the traditional version. If anything it's just one that'd get killed quicker.

I was talking about Frank Miller's original comic book story.

But despite all the research and training, he would still need experience on the streets and with criminals before ever going out as Batman.

If you don't think being a street rat toughens you up you don't have a very good idea of how the streets and crime really work. Me neither, but I've seen and known enough people to make such a bold sutatement. The things you learn there in order to survive.

But regardless, I was talking about the comic.

 

[FunkMiller]

I still don't grt why you think this Batman would be any different from Telltale and Earth One. He's always lived in a dark and gritty world.

A lot of things happen in both those iterations that would be considered very 'comic booky' and fantastical. Same goes for Year One.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The idea of him existing as a Michael Myers “Shape” figure that’s relentlessly after Joker for the majority of the film would be something.

 

[Maze]

I'm into a Nightmare like figure for Batman, which may or not be fantaisies by the Joker

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I'm into a Nightmare like figure for Batman, which may or not be fantaisies by the Joker

This is what I was gonna write.

Maybe the next film can have Batman, but shown only from Joker’s perspective, revealed in the end to be a figment of Joker’s imagination, like Fight Club. Maybe he’s created because some part of Joker always wants to be thrown back into Arkham, or perhaps the lingering guilt inside him manifests into another person. The reason they can never kill each other is because they’re never actually fighting each other.

 

[eon001]

I'm into a Nightmare like figure for Batman, which may or not be fantaisies by the Joker

This is what I was gonna write.

Maybe the next film can have Batman, but shown only from Joker’s perspective, revealed in the end to be a figment of Joker’s imagination, like Fight Club. Maybe he’s created because some part of Joker always wants to be thrown back into Arkham, or perhaps the lingering guilt inside him manifests into another person. The reason they can never kill each other is because they’re never actually fighting each other.

If you haven't seen this animated Gotham Knight's short then I would recommend watching it, because it touches on the concept of how Batman is perceived by regular people. He's like an urban myth. He moves so quickly and stealthily some people think he's some supernatural demon or scientific experiment.


Imagine something like this but from the perspective of criminals. Grounded villains being stalked and tormented by this dark mysterious figure.

 

[eon001]

The idea of him existing as a Michael Myers “Shape” figure that’s relentlessly after Joker for the majority of the film would be something.

Perfect way too describe. I'd have him start with average criminals, and just terrorize them, but we see things from there pov.

If you have time check out this short film the Flying Man. It's what inspired my idea. It's some kind of superhero vigilante like superman. He's pretty much terrorizing criminals only, but hen the story is told form the pov of the criminals you get a sense of there fear and tension.

 

[jolldan]

Im not quite sure how I would go about bringing his tech or suit to this universe but in terms of story I would have a either post year one or towards the end of year one Batman where he has sort of got to grips with the underbelly of Gotham but hasn't came across the Joker yet.

When he does I would revolve the main point of the story around Joker's increasing acts of violence and Batman's internal struggle on whether killing him to stop him is justifiable. Which it wouldn't be because of all the versions of the Joker we've had I would say this is potentially the one where its most easy to understand why Batman wouldn't kill him, he is mentally ill and a victim of society (which isn't justification for his actions but it seemed evident he was broken instead of just plain evil)

I would also have Bruce be a bit more like Thomas was in this film as I think that could make a really interesting dynamic. Just as Joker isn't a 100% villain 100% of the time in this I think it would be very interesting to have Bruce have maybe picked up some of Thomas poorer traits as well like his lack of compassion or empathy for the poor. (Which to be honest would make a hell of a lot of sense with Bruce knowing they were gunned down by one of those types of people)

 

[fan4stic]

I'd have it be developed that at some point in the last 15-20 years, many records have been lost/destroyed in, say in a fire or bombing or something, so we keep the massive mystery of Joker's life. All that's basically had is the Joker's stand up act that was mocked by Murray, knowledge of people being killed on the train, a recording the show where Murray was killed, the knowledge of the riot, Joker being broken out and that's basically it. Even records of Joker's birth are nowhere to be found.

Joker's telling his story, it changing piece by piece, in some retellings he maintains a relationship with Zazie Beetz's character, her getting pregnant and then dying, saying that's what drove him to this. Even changing around his mom's involvement. His face is now pale, hair taken on green coloring permanently, though we never directly explain why.

Batman has begun already, for within 2-5 years.

 

[LoganGambit87]

Any Batman in this universe wouldn’t be a superhero, jumping off rooftops and grappling up walls. He’d be a psychotic vigilante, with severe emotional issues.

He wouldn’t wear a cape, because in a realistic universe like this one, a cape would get you killed pretty quickly in any street combat. He wouldn’t wear a full cowl either, as it restricts both hearing and vision. He’d probably retain the bat logo on his body armour though. It’s realistic to suggest a disturbed vigilante would conjure up an alter ego of a ‘bat man’. It’s a potential trait of disassociation disorder, which he’d probably suffer from.

He’d be a killer... because again, in a realistic, nihilistic universe like this one, it’d be the only way to make him believable as a vigilante in such a dangerous city.

In short, in the universe as created in Joker... Batman would be The Punisher.

If you accept that the universe of the Joker movie is as grounded and realistic as possible, then you have to accept that what we all consider to be Batman isn’t all that possible. You can have a realistic, psychology damaged vigilante under the guise of the ‘bat man’ ....but not the fantasy superhero Batman.

100% disagree with this take the only way batman becomes punisher in this universe is if Alfred is dead

 

[eon001]

You know I would really like a study on the potential harm a presence like Batman has in lower income and impoverished communities.

In between the high level criminals, there is going to be honest folk that fall on hard times that catch a whopping from this "psycho vigilante"
I know it's comedy but I feel this SNL skit, kind highlights some potential problems with Batman.


Not to mentions, Batman is a character in need of some serious psychological help. I'd like a legit study into how he would be viewed in a real life context.
I think James's Gunns Super might have touched on that, but I haven't seen it passed the trailer.

 

[Invader Joker]

Telltale is definitely the way to go with a Batman in this universe.

Everyone keeps saying he'd be an ******* and I really don't neccessarily agree.

Even in the context of the movie, Bruce would probably feel anger, sadness, etc when his parents are killed. But there's also another thing he'd feel: confusion.

A lot of confusion.

And what'd he do with that confusion? He'd try to understand what happened that lead to his parent's deaths during his training. He'd make an honest attempt at understanding the set of socio political circumstances that lead to his parents deaths. He'd be angry, have negative thoughts and impulses but he'd ultimately try to control them because that's exactly what ended up causing Arthur to become the way he is. Bruce has always tried to be unlike the evil that took his parent's lives.

If he practices meditation, that'd also keep him in check. I can even see this Bruce trying to be very zen to an extent.

Ultimately, he'd try to be the opposite of Arthur. He'd try to inspire positive change in the city and he'd try to correct his parent's wrongdoings.

He'd become Batman because a city in such a state on chaos would need that figure that fights on the streets, but he'd also be extremely philanthropic as Bruce Wayne.

Yes, he'd be violent at times. Very much so. But he'd still try to be good.

 

[Schlosser85]

Same as usual Batman. Nothing is different except his parents got killed by a Joker admirer instead of a random mugger, and his father might not have been as good of a person.

 

[eon001]

Telltale is definitely the way to go with a Batman in this universe.

Everyone keeps saying he'd be an ******* and I really don't neccessarily agree.

Even in the context of the movie, Bruce would probably feel anger, sadness, etc when his parents are killed. But there's also another thing he'd feel: confusion.

A lot of confusion.

And what'd he do with that confusion? He'd try to understand what happened that lead to his parent's deaths during his training. He'd make an honest attempt at understanding the set of socio political circumstances that lead to his parents deaths. He'd be angry, have negative thoughts and impulses but he'd ultimately try to control them because that's exactly what ended up causing Arthur to become the way he is. Bruce has always tried to be unlike the evil that took his parent's lives.

If he practices meditation, that'd also keep him in check. I can even see this Bruce trying to be very zen to an extent.

Ultimately, he'd try to be the opposite of Arthur. He'd try to inspire positive change in the city and he'd try to correct his parent's wrongdoings.

He'd become Batman because a city in such a state on chaos would need that figure that fights on the streets, but he'd also be extremely philanthropic as Bruce Wayne.

Yes, he'd be violent at times. Very much so. But he'd still try to be good.

I think you can go both ways with it. I guess that's the point of the discussion. What route would be the most entertaining or interesting.

I think Batman has always had that potential to go dark. I'd say Frank Miller explored how brutal Batman can be without crossing the line into murder. A brutal vigilante isn't that much of a stretch. People like this actually exist in the real world.
You have Guardian Angels in New York, then there's the pedophile hunters that lure pedo's out into the public, not to mention the show to catch a predator.

Joker-verse Batman could be a study into that form of vigilantism pushed to it's limit.

 

[eon001]

Same as usual Batman. Nothing is different except his parents got killed by a Joker admirer instead of a random mugger, and his father might not have been as good of a person.

You think cape's and utility belts will fit in well in the grittiness of Todd Phillips world?

 

[Schlosser85]

You think cape's and utility belts will fit in well in the grittiness of Todd Phillips world?

Capes and utility belts exist in reality, and Phillips' cesspool Gotham isn't any different from comic Gotham except less Gothic.

 

[Invader Joker]

I just feel that making him an ******* is the lazy route because it's what's everyone expecting.

I do think he'd be very brutal at times, but he'd still try to be good. I think he'd use Batman to inspire the Gotham citizens to be better, and he'd use Bruce Wayne to inspire the upper class to not be selfish idiots.

I feel like the super brutal punisher route out of touch billionaire everyone keeps describing is what Arthur would want Bruce to become, not what Bruce would necessarily be.

Ultimately, yeah, at his core he'd still be comic Batman but with a few minor differences here and there due to context, more zen like, maybe some slightly different ways of approaching things.

He'd ultimately be a very complex character.