TMOS Review & Speculation Thread

[Tacit Ronin]

What's interesting is that some people can't accept that Man Of Steel might not be as good as batman Begins. Now flashback to June 2005, Begins came out to utter euphoria, claims that nobody will ever conceive of a way to surpass a film of that caliber again. Flash forward to today, just reaching the ballpark of Begins isn't good enough. Shows what time does to a film doesn't it? Time has weathered Batman Begins' sheen, people see more of its cracks now. I wonder what people will think of MOS in 2020.

 

[redfirebird2008]

What's interesting is that some people can't accept that Man Of Steel might not be as good as batman Begins. Now flashback to June 2005, Begins came out to utter euphoria, claims that nobody will ever conceive of a way to surpass a film of that caliber again. Flash forward to today, just reaching the ballpark of Begins isn't good enough. Shows what time does to a film doesn't it? Time has weathered Batman Begins' sheen, people see more of its cracks now. I wonder what people will think of MOS in 2020.

Batman Begins is still the best live action superhero movie I've seen. I'm aware of its flaws, but I'm just as aware of the flaws of other movies in the genre and I've come to the conclusion that BB's flaws bother me less than the flaws in other superhero movies. I will be very pleased if Man of Steel is even remotely in the ballpark of BB's quality.

 

[DKDetective]

This is one of the most bogus recent myths in existence, and entirely laughable because of how widespread its use is. Name me one movie post TDK that was dark other than its own sequel? Watchmen doesn't count because it was in post when TDK came out and would've had the same tone regardless.

If anything, the success of TDK's approach has been seen in other genres. While the Bond series was already on the same path with Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, you can definitely see the influence of The Dark Knight on Skyfall and Mendes admits it as an influence. You can also see its influence on STID in particular with the marketing, villain, and certain plot points. However, you are right, the film has had very little influence on the comic book superhero genre unless it inspired Marvel to stick with a very different approach to their films.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yup. TDK influenced movies outside of its genre not in it. BB is the most influential film within its genre in Nolan's trilogy.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Yup. TDK influenced movies outside of its genre not in it. BB is the most influential film within its genre in Nolan's trilogy.

Most influential in general too. BB is responsible for the reboot trend in Hollywood. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. There have been some good ones like Star Trek but there have been a lot of bad ones too.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

True. It's the first successful modern reboot, though Casino Royale would've came out as is even if Begins happened later.

 

[Fenrir]

What's interesting is that some people can't accept that Man Of Steel might not be as good as batman Begins. Now flashback to June 2005, Begins came out to utter euphoria, claims that nobody will ever conceive of a way to surpass a film of that caliber again. Flash forward to today, just reaching the ballpark of Begins isn't good enough. Shows what time does to a film doesn't it? Time has weathered Batman Begins' sheen, people see more of its cracks now. I wonder what people will think of MOS in 2020.

Time hasn't weathered the sheen of Batman Begins, it's just that the bar has been raised quite a lot since then. When it comes to origin movies, the first Iron Man is just as good, if arguably not better, than Batman Begins. And The Dark Knight continues to be the de facto benchmark for the genre to date. However, when Begins came out, there was nothing quite like it at the time. It was the genre's first attempt at blurring the lines between genuine filmmaking and comic book blockbusters. There was no nudging and winking at the audience. Batman Begins took its mythology seriously and grounded its universe in a believable reality. That gave it a level of authenticity, sincerity and earnestness that hadn't been seen in superhero films before.

We'll see how time judges Man of Steel, but if I can say for certain to what superhero film this year time most certainly won't be kind to, it is Iron Man 3. It won't be derided as Iron Man 2, but few will remain fond of it.

 

[redfirebird2008]

We'll see how time judges Man of Steel, but if I can say for certain to what superhero film this year time most certainly won't be kind to, it is Iron Man 3. It won't be derided as Iron Man 2, but few will remain fond of it.

I don't know, it's enjoyable enough. There was definitely some ludicrous hype about it from some of those early critic screenings though. "Better than IM1 and Avengers." Yeah, hell no. Good movie, but quite a ways behind those two.

 

[Fenrir]

I don't know, it's enjoyable enough. There was definitely some ludicrous hype about it from some of those early critic screenings though. "Better than IM1 and Avengers." Yeah, hell no. Good movie, but quite a ways behind those two.

At the very least, you'll definitely see many people view it far less positively later down the road than they are now. It certainly won't hold up as well to repeat viewings.

 

[redfirebird2008]

At the very least, you'll definitely see many people view it far less positively later down the road than they are now. It certainly won't hold up as well to repeat viewings.

No question. I think a lot of those critics who saw it were falling victim to the "newer is always better" syndrome. IM2 being such a disappointment perhaps played into this, and it seems a lot of them haven't recently watched IM1. It has held up very well during the last 5 years and I don't think IM3 will hold up anywhere near as well over the next 5 years.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The first Iron Man is so great. a lighting in a bottle really. I wonder if MOS will match it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Most influential in general too. BB is responsible for the reboot trend in Hollywood. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. There have been some good ones like Star Trek but there have been a lot of bad ones too.

I don't mind reboots as long as they are good. To me it's taking something classic and giving it a new spin. Remakes tend to bug me, however.

A lot of origins have been influenced by BB. This likely includes MOS.

As for the best superhero movie, I don't care how many films MOS does or does not influence, because at the end of the day, it's a stand-alone work. If I think MOS is the best superhero film of all time, that's my opinion.

But I'm a critic, and I'm actually LOOKING for flaws in the material we've seen so far (shocking I know.)

However, the only thing questionable I've seen is Pa Kent saying "maybe" regarding Clark's decision on whether saving children was right, and even that might have a deeper context. Those rumors regarding Jor-El are probably false, as well.

I had my expectations set at a realistic level and wasn't disappointed at TDKR or ASM (okay, maybe a bit). Avengers gave me what I wanted, interesting characters, sweeping action, and a strong sense of fun.

But I wasn't expecting a powerfully evocative movie.

Enter 2013, and I'm practically DROOLING for MOS. I'm a fan whose read some comics about Superman, and the great Superman stories aren't about the actions depicted, but about humanity and its potential for good. That being said, comics Superman has some of the biggest fights ever in terms of scale, and Zack Snyder seems to have ALREADY delivered on that front. Superman also has a sense of wittiness and is patient and controlled in terms of aggression. He's not angry a lot, but when he is, WATCH out.

I'm glad we finally get to see a tough Superman again. Reeves had a sense of tension and grit that I think (don't attack me guys) was missing from even CR.
Cavill seems to be channeling that element, but also, he looks ripped from the pages. From his humble, yet assertive attitude, to his gentle smile, to his sense of justifiable anger, as well as compasion- that's pure Superman.

I know if the film isn't good at this point, Cavill probably won't be the weak link. But everything I've seen makes me think this will either be the greatest origin of all time, or some disturbingly deceptive marketing

 

[redfirebird2008]

The first Iron Man is so great. a lighting in a bottle really. I wonder if MOS will match it.

I doubt they'll match the characterization of the protagonist (RDJ's Stark was like Depp's Captain Jack). But it looks like Crowe has nailed it for the Krypton sequence, and I suspect MOS will have much better action scenes than IM1. The climactic fight in IM1 felt like a Transformers movie, which was the only bad thing about the film.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I doubt they'll match the characterization of the protagonist (RDJ's Stark was like Depp's Captain Jack). But it looks like Crowe has nailed it for the Krypton sequence, and I suspect MOS will have much better action scenes than IM1. The climactic fight in IM1 felt like a Transformers movie, which was the only bad thing about the film.

It wasn't like Transformers! You could actually see the two robots clanging against each other rather than their vague silhouettes. Still, it was pretty mediocre.

I actually enjoyed Stark vs Killian though. That karate chop, breaking his armored leg and then whipping him with it? I was in fanboy glee.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I doubt they'll match the characterization of the protagonist (RDJ's Stark was like Depp's Captain Jack). But it looks like Crowe has nailed it for the Krypton sequence, and I suspect MOS will have much better action scenes than IM1. The climactic fight in IM1 felt like a Transformers movie, which was the only bad thing about the film.

For me, Iron Man is the standard to beat. However, I like Adams more than Paltrow, the action will be better, and the music actually seems to stand out.
I think Cavill will be SLIGHTLY worse than RDJ as Iron Man, but I feel like he's gonna still rule overall with his performance.

As for the movie, it looks to combine the emotional gravity of Batman Begins, with a scale that surpasses the Avengers, with a sense of myth a'la' Thor.
Really, the best of all possible worlds, conceptually.

 

[DanSupKP37]

What's interesting is that some people can't accept that Man Of Steel might not be as good as batman Begins. Now flashback to June 2005, Begins came out to utter euphoria, claims that nobody will ever conceive of a way to surpass a film of that caliber again. Flash forward to today, just reaching the ballpark of Begins isn't good enough. Shows what time does to a film doesn't it? Time has weathered Batman Begins' sheen, people see more of its cracks now. I wonder what people will think of MOS in 2020.

IMO BB is the worst of the Nolan trilogy and I was kind of underwhelmed by it even when I saw it in theatres back in 2005. Don't get me wrong it is a well made and well cast film (Aside from Holmes being awful as Rachel) but I was pretty bored with the first half of the movie and felt the film lacked a compelling villain. Nolan obviously stepped up his game immensely in that regard for TDK and TDKR. MOS looks like it is going to provide that compelling villain in the backdrop of a brand new origin story with the kind of action and battle scenes we have never experienced in any Superman movie. And the comparisons of Batman and Superman are silly to me given how different the characters are and need to be portrayed.

 

[Autonet]

Tdk > bb

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I feel like the entire Nolan trilogy is overrated. There- I said it. That being said, BB never got the hype or level of attention as its sequels. If TDK got a 9, and TDKR has an 8.6, than BB should at LEAST be around an 8.8 at IMDB (which upvotes a lot).
Yeah, Goyer seems to be learning from his mistakes with BB, while Nolan keeps reaching for a higher level of ambition with each blockbuster. Combine that with Zack's ability to film sets, actors, and action, and we might have the most refined superhero origin ever.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

IMO BB is the worst of the Nolan trilogy and I was kind of underwhelmed by it even when I saw it in theatres back in 2005. Don't get me wrong it is a well made and well cast film (Aside from Holmes being awful as Rachel) but I was pretty bored with the first half of the movie and felt the film lacked a compelling villain. Nolan obviously stepped up his game immensely in that regard for TDK and TDKR. MOS looks like it is going to provide that compelling villain in the backdrop of a brand new origin story with the kind of action and battle scenes we have never experienced in any Superman movie. And the comparisons of Batman and Superman are silly to me given how different the characters are and need to be portrayed.

I was actually more bored during the SECOND half. It's hard knowing how much better the action/fight scenes would be if he actually used second units-or learned how to professionally film fight scenes.

 

[DanSupKP37]

^ I feel like the entire Nolan trilogy is overrated. There- I said it. That being said, BB never got the hype or level of attention as its sequels. If TDK got a 9, and TDKR has an 8.6, than BB should at LEAST be around an 8.8 at IMDB (which upvotes a lot).
Yeah, Goyer seems to be learning from his mistakes with BB, while Nolan keeps reaching for a higher level of ambition with each blockbuster. Combine that with Zack's ability to film sets, actors, and action, and we might have the most refined superhero origin ever.

It kind of depends on what your cup of tea is with comic movies. I thought Avengers was a great movie but I didn't think it was the masterpiece many critics were hailing it is personally I think Iron Man 1 is still the best Marvel movie that has been made. Now if some critics are saying the film falls short of Begins, well given that I was underwhelmed by Begins that does not really worry me. When I hear that MOS is far and away the best Superman ever that gets me excited because I am Superman fan first.. I may end up overrating MOS a bit because I am such a Superman fan but that is my cup of tea..

 

[king666]

Critics' Choice rating just went from 100/100 to 90/100.

 

[DanSupKP37]

Critics' Choice rating just went from 100/100 to 90/100.

Movie clearly sucks now..

 

[redfirebird2008]

When I hear that MOS is far and away the best Superman ever

That sounds like hyperbole to me. Donner's Superman is still a gold standard in the genre. Much like certain critics fell victim to the "newest is best" syndrome with Iron Man 3, that could happen again with MOS. I'll be happy if it's anywhere near the ballpark of BB or S78.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Critics' Choice rating just went from 100/100 to 90/100.

Ironically, I think that's a good sign. More people are seeing it

 

[Hoorayforeric]

BB was a great movie, but only seen by a few in comparison to the rest. It also rehashed a lot of bits from the original Burton Batman. It also suffered from being a new fangled reboot, not long after the terrible B&R fiasco. TDK came out, I spoke to many that didn't even realize there was a BB movie or that they were connected. Even when TDKR came out, they just saw it as a TDK sequel, not realizing it was a trilogy. Superman Returns played to filmgoers similar to BB and didn't over excite movie goers, either.

MOS and its hype is massive compared to BB and a lot of that has to do with the Nolan tag and the success of the TDK trilogy. People are ready to buy into a new reboot, especially with the proven rebooter (Nolan) being attached.