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Tom Cruise is Van Helsing?

To continue the tangent, I always enjoyed the Hammer movies because they had blood and color, but most of their movies outside of Horror of Dracula, I always thought were kind of awful. Buxom English girls either heave as Christopher Lee approaches with fangs or are victims to Peter Cushing's Dr. Frankenstein. They're entertaining, but I felt the best of the Universal films--Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, The Wolf Man, The Invisible Man, The Phantom of the Opera and Dracula--were a cut above. They also had such a great gothic atmosphere in the 1930s with a kind of post-WWI cynicism and in the '40s, as they got trashier, their kind of hilarious views of violent Europe also added. And I really loved Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man growing up. It was cheese, but of the Grade-A gouda variety.

I like Hammer. But those Universal films to me still are entertaining as I get older.
 
What about that one film with the guy from willy wonka with frankenstein. Forgot what film was called but was a comedy film.
 
I thought the first Van Helsing was crap. If they're gonna reboot the concept again, I'd stick much closer to Stoker's Van Helsing and make the Dracula connection blatant. Make it more of an atmospheric supernatural gothic horror/crime film and make it way less of a flashy, superficial action movie.
 
Absolutely, although I think it would work best as a gothic horror piece based around acting instead of a summer blockbuster movie. Then again, I always thought Hammer's take on the monsters was better then Universal's.

Initially, I'd agree. The one thing that drives me crazy is the inconsistency with how they portrayed Baron Frankenstein. In Curse of Frankenstein, he's a man driven to violence by science. In the films after that, he's kind of a nice guy cursed only by his name(Revenge of Frankenstein), a victim of the greed of others(Evil of Frankenstein) and he's a pretty good human being in Frankenstein Created Woman. Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed made him a flat-out evil villain what with the rape scene with Veronica Carlson, which I thought was horrible.

and Dracula gets the short-stick in every film after Prince of Darkness. He's not even the main character and doesn't have much to do.

Their non-Dracula and Frankenstein films were way better in my opinion. Kiss of the Vampire is, outside of the lousy special effects at the end, practically flawless.
 
I also adored Andy Warhol's Dracula and Frankenstein.
 
I thought the first Van Helsing was crap. If they're gonna reboot the concept again, I'd stick much closer to Stoker's Van Helsing and make the Dracula connection blatant. Make it more of an atmospheric supernatural gothic horror/crime film and make it way less of a flashy, superficial action movie.


Make Dracula mysterious and have a good motive. What was Dracula's motive originally suppose to be?
 
I'm not entirely against a remake/relaunch/reboot/re-do/re-whatever of Van Helsing. The basic idea behind the plot was okay. It was just very poorly executed by bad writing, over done/poor CGI, and a director with very little understanding of how to make a movie, let alone make a good one (let me guess, a music video director taking his first crack at a major motion picture). Hugh Jackman and Kate Beckinsale were the only bright points in the movie for me, and even they couldn't get me to watch it all the way through.

If written and directed by someone with at least half a clue on how to do this type of film (after watching The Avengers, twice, my vote goes to Joss Whedon as writer AND director) it could turn out very well. I'm a little uncertain on Tom Cruise in the title role though. For one thing, I think the film might carry more weight if they were to cast a Brit in the title role. I have a feeling Cruise won't even be ASKED to fake a British accent for the role, which to me takes away from the film. Maybe get Daniel Craig to play Van Helsing instead? He has the same rugged look as Jackman, a British accent, and is a VERY good action star (who can also ACT).

And why should Hollywood ONLY remake movies that were a financial and/or critical success? More often than not they f**k it up. Like Rob Zombie's Halloween and Halloween 2. Or Michael Bay's Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Friday The 13th, and A Nightmare On Elm Street. If you scrape the bottom of the barrel for a stinker that had potential, like Van Helsing, and try to correct their mistakes, then you've got nowhere to go but up. They just have to remember what George Lucas said in the documentary From Star Wars To Jedi: The Making Of A Saga. He said, "Special effects are just a tool for telling a story. A special effect without any story would be a very boring thing to watch," (too bad George didn't follow his own advice when he made the prequels). Write a GOOD story, enhance it with GOOD special effects, and fill the roles with GOOD actors, and you SHOULD have a winner.
 
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Lol Micheal Bay's TCM, FT13 and NMOES were not that bad they were decent. I actually think they could of been better had Bay directed those films instead of just being a producer.
 
I thought the first Van Helsing was crap. If they're gonna reboot the concept again, I'd stick much closer to Stoker's Van Helsing and make the Dracula connection blatant. Make it more of an atmospheric supernatural gothic horror/crime film and make it way less of a flashy, superficial action movie.

I agree with this. Van Helsing had a vendetta against the Prince of Darkness. They really need to delve deep into that relationship and make it more of a war of wills between the two. Who is willing to go the furthest to eliminate the other.

I always thought Van Helsing was most compelling when was obsessed to the point of crossing the line into villainy in order to beat Drac.

In addition, they need to make Dracula a badass, not the Count Chocula clone we go in the last movie.

Producers and directors should realize by now that a great villain is required to make a great hero film. A great villain requires solid motivation, a compelling relationship with the hero and a strong performance.

AND for gods sakes, limit the swashbuckling!!! The last Van Helsing looked more like pirate flick with all the rope swinging!

Cruise isn't my preference for this role but I won't vote against him. He's still a solid actor.
 
If he were in the running I would cast Michael Fassbender as either Van Helsing or Count Dracula.
 
He's my Dracula. :o

I always envisioned Clive Owen as Van Helsing.
 
What era would you like the Van Helsing film to take place in? And I never saw the original films, what was Van Helsings personal vendetta against Dracula? He kill someone he loved or turned into a vampire?
 
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Make Dracula mysterious and have a good motive. What was Dracula's motive originally suppose to be?

To infiltrate British society, make an army of vampires and take over the world. Essentially.


I'm not entirely against a remake/relaunch/reboot/re-do/re-whatever of Van Helsing. The basic idea behind the plot was okay. It was just very poorly executed by bad writing, over done/poor CGI, and a director with very little understanding of how to make a movie, let alone make a good one (let me guess, a music video director taking his first crack at a major motion picture). Hugh Jackman and Kate Beckinsale were the only bright points in the movie for me, and even they couldn't get me to watch it all the way through.

I went into Van Helsing very much excited about the plot. I walked out further believing that it's impossible to do a monster mash-up and do it seriously.

And it wasn't a first time director. It was Stephan Sommers who did the Mummy films. Not that I'm defending him(though I enjoyed The Mummy). He's just way beyond a first time filmmaker. I also felt Kate Beckinsale was wholly unnecessary to the film. She's there for eye candy, nothing more. She spends most of the movie being the damsel in distress and getting her ass kicked until she eventually dies.

The high point of the film was the opening recreation of the burning windmill scene from the 1931 Frankenstein film. That's about it.

If written and directed by someone with at least half a clue on how to do this type of film (after watching The Avengers, twice, my vote goes to Joss Whedon as writer AND director) it could turn out very well. I'm a little uncertain on Tom Cruise in the title role though. For one thing, I think the film might carry more weight if they were to cast a Brit in the title role. I have a feeling Cruise won't even be ASKED to fake a British accent for the role, which to me takes away from the film. Maybe get Daniel Craig to play Van Helsing instead? He has the same rugged look as Jackman, a British accent, and is a VERY good action star (who can also ACT).

Disagreed on all points. Start small. This doesn't need to be Van Helsing vs Every monster Universal has in it's stable(though the Mole People would be interesting to see, though I digress). I also don't really feel this has to be some huge CGI spectacle blockbuster. I think something closer to The Raven would be an apt model to use. Just do it better.

Brit, American...makes no different. Van Helsing in the novel DRACULA was Dutch. Just don't turn him into this Victorian era James Bond with Wolverine's memory loss problems. The Dracula connection is crucial to the character.



I agree with this. Van Helsing had a vendetta against the Prince of Darkness. They really need to delve deep into that relationship and make it more of a war of wills between the two. Who is willing to go the furthest to eliminate the other.

I always thought Van Helsing was most compelling when was obsessed to the point of crossing the line into villainy in order to beat Drac.

In addition, they need to make Dracula a badass, not the Count Chocula clone we go in the last movie.

This. Though the Van Helsing/Dracula rivalry is more a product of pop. culture. In the novel, Van Helsing is the go-to guy for the main group of protagonists. He's an expert on rare diseases, the supernatural, and the occult. He advises and guides John Harker, Quincy Morris, Jack Seward and Arthur Holmwood in their efforts to track down and kill Dracula.

Van Helsing doesn't really become the enemy of Dracula until the 1931 Lugosi film.

But that rivalry, since obviously they're not going to adapt the book, is something that needs to be played up. Both Van Helsing and Dracula need to push each other further and further. Who will go furthest? And they should play up the idea that that's all Dracula wants...to push Van Helsing past breaking point. That's just how evil Dracula is. And it also plays into an idea presented in the novel about how Dracula's mind functions. He's like a child, trying out new abilities and pushing the authority figures as much as he can, like a child baits adults.

The fact of the matter is, Dracula needs to be one EVIL mo-fo. Not sympathetic. Not cool. Not badass. He needs to be flat out EVIL.


What era would you like the Van Helsing film to take place in? And I never saw the original films, what was Van Helsings personal vendetta against Dracula? He kill someone he loved or turned into a vampire?

Should be a period piece. Preferably before the Victorian era, simply to give the characters more of a history before the events of DRACULA occur.

Van Helsing had no real personal vendetta against Dracula, other than that Dracula was responsible for killing the love interest of several characters in the novel and acted as an advisor to his defeat. The first time this changes is in Horror of Dracula, I believe...the 1958 Hammer film. The film takes liberties with the source material in that it makes Jonathan Harker a partner of Van Helsing, sent to infiltrate Castle Dracula and destroy him. He fails. Dracula takes his revenge out on Harker's fiance and Van Helsing has to destroy him before Dracula can take out the rest of Harker's family(Mina and Arthur Holmwood).

Since they aren't going to adapt the novel, they can do whatever they want though.
 
I would love for Van Helsing vs Dracula to lean a little more towards a battle of wits. Almost like a Holmes v Moriarty type thing. Sure there can be some action and whatnot, but a mortal man and an immortal monster beating the hell out of each other can get very dull.
 
To infiltrate British society, make an army of vampires and take over the world. Essentially.




I went into Van Helsing very much excited about the plot. I walked out further believing that it's impossible to do a monster mash-up and do it seriously.

And it wasn't a first time director. It was Stephan Sommers who did the Mummy films. Not that I'm defending him(though I enjoyed The Mummy). He's just way beyond a first time filmmaker. I also felt Kate Beckinsale was wholly unnecessary to the film. She's there for eye candy, nothing more. She spends most of the movie being the damsel in distress and getting her ass kicked until she eventually dies.

The high point of the film was the opening recreation of the burning windmill scene from the 1931 Frankenstein film. That's about it.



Disagreed on all points. Start small. This doesn't need to be Van Helsing vs Every monster Universal has in it's stable(though the Mole People would be interesting to see, though I digress). I also don't really feel this has to be some huge CGI spectacle blockbuster. I think something closer to The Raven would be an apt model to use. Just do it better.

Brit, American...makes no different. Van Helsing in the novel DRACULA was Dutch. Just don't turn him into this Victorian era James Bond with Wolverine's memory loss problems. The Dracula connection is crucial to the character.





This. Though the Van Helsing/Dracula rivalry is more a product of pop. culture. In the novel, Van Helsing is the go-to guy for the main group of protagonists. He's an expert on rare diseases, the supernatural, and the occult. He advises and guides John Harker, Quincy Morris, Jack Seward and Arthur Holmwood in their efforts to track down and kill Dracula.

Van Helsing doesn't really become the enemy of Dracula until the 1931 Lugosi film.

But that rivalry, since obviously they're not going to adapt the book, is something that needs to be played up. Both Van Helsing and Dracula need to push each other further and further. Who will go furthest? And they should play up the idea that that's all Dracula wants...to push Van Helsing past breaking point. That's just how evil Dracula is. And it also plays into an idea presented in the novel about how Dracula's mind functions. He's like a child, trying out new abilities and pushing the authority figures as much as he can, like a child baits adults.

The fact of the matter is, Dracula needs to be one EVIL mo-fo. Not sympathetic. Not cool. Not badass. He needs to be flat out EVIL.




Should be a period piece. Preferably before the Victorian era, simply to give the characters more of a history before the events of DRACULA occur.

Van Helsing had no real personal vendetta against Dracula, other than that Dracula was responsible for killing the love interest of several characters in the novel and acted as an advisor to his defeat. The first time this changes is in Horror of Dracula, I believe...the 1958 Hammer film. The film takes liberties with the source material in that it makes Jonathan Harker a partner of Van Helsing, sent to infiltrate Castle Dracula and destroy him. He fails. Dracula takes his revenge out on Harker's fiance and Van Helsing has to destroy him before Dracula can take out the rest of Harker's family(Mina and Arthur Holmwood).

Since they aren't going to adapt the novel, they can do whatever they want though.

Maybe they could do 6 films then if this becomes a franchise hit. First 3 films before the victorian age and final 3 films during the victorian age. Maybe have the first 3 films have Helsing join Harker and his team to battle Dracula and later films just Helsing himself against Dracula. What actor do you guys think would make a good dracula?
 
To continue the tangent, I always enjoyed the Hammer movies because they had blood and color, but most of their movies outside of Horror of Dracula, I always thought were kind of awful. Buxom English girls either heave as Christopher Lee approaches with fangs or are victims to Peter Cushing's Dr. Frankenstein. They're entertaining, but I felt the best of the Universal films--Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, The Wolf Man, The Invisible Man, The Phantom of the Opera and Dracula--were a cut above. They also had such a great gothic atmosphere in the 1930s with a kind of post-WWI cynicism and in the '40s, as they got trashier, their kind of hilarious views of violent Europe also added. And I really loved Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man growing up. It was cheese, but of the Grade-A gouda variety.

I like Hammer. But those Universal films to me still are entertaining as I get older.

All of Terence Fisher's films for Hammer were great, and his Frankenstein films were his best. The only Universal Frankensteins I'd rate above his films are the original and Bride. But it's apples and oranges, as the Universal series followed the monster, while Hammer's series focused on the Baron. Hammer's Dracula movies are less consistent than their Frankenstein series because Fisher only directed three of them. But I do love Universal's horror movies.

When Professor Van Helsing works best as a character is when the films are set near the end of the 19th century, as he is a scientist who still accepts the existence of a mystical world, although it could work today as there is no shortage of ignorant religious fanaticism to be found. i find Cruise hard to trust on this as he is himself a religious fanatic-a different, new age religion, but he is no less devout. Not that I care what he believes in or hold it against him as others do, but one has to disconnect from their own beliefs to work with this sort of material, and even though Van Helsing is a fantasy character, he is also depicted as a very strong believer.
 
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This. Though the Van Helsing/Dracula rivalry is more a product of pop. culture. In the novel, Van Helsing is the go-to guy for the main group of protagonists. He's an expert on rare diseases, the supernatural, and the occult. He advises and guides John Harker, Quincy Morris, Jack Seward and Arthur Holmwood in their efforts to track down and kill Dracula.

Van Helsing doesn't really become the enemy of Dracula until the 1931 Lugosi film.

But that rivalry, since obviously they're not going to adapt the book, is something that needs to be played up. Both Van Helsing and Dracula need to push each other further and further. Who will go furthest? And they should play up the idea that that's all Dracula wants...to push Van Helsing past breaking point. That's just how evil Dracula is. And it also plays into an idea presented in the novel about how Dracula's mind functions. He's like a child, trying out new abilities and pushing the authority figures as much as he can, like a child baits adults.

The fact of the matter is, Dracula needs to be one EVIL mo-fo. Not sympathetic. Not cool. Not badass. He needs to be flat out EVIL.

Should be a period piece. Preferably before the Victorian era, simply to give the characters more of a history before the events of DRACULA occur.

Van Helsing had no real personal vendetta against Dracula, other than that Dracula was responsible for killing the love interest of several characters in the novel and acted as an advisor to his defeat. The first time this changes is in Horror of Dracula, I believe...the 1958 Hammer film. The film takes liberties with the source material in that it makes Jonathan Harker a partner of Van Helsing, sent to infiltrate Castle Dracula and destroy him. He fails. Dracula takes his revenge out on Harker's fiance and Van Helsing has to destroy him before Dracula can take out the rest of Harker's family(Mina and Arthur Holmwood).

Since they aren't going to adapt the novel, they can do whatever they want though.

Wow! Some great history here. I bow to your superior knowledge of the subject sir!

And I agree with your post entirely!
 
All of Terence Fisher's films for Hammer were great, and his Frankenstein films were his best. The only Universal Frankensteins I'd rate above his films are the original and Bride. But it's apples and oranges, as the Universal series followed the monster, while Hammer's series focused on the Baron. Hammer's Dracula movies are less consistent than their Frankenstein series because Fisher only directed three of them. But I do love Universal's horror movies.

Well yes, the only better ones were the two best Frankenstein films ever made. ;) I've seen the argument made many times that Bride of Frankenstein is the best horror movie of all time and while I disagree with that, it is a plausible one. It certainly one of the very most innovative, ambitious and creative. Those were truly A-picture masterpieces, while the Hammer films were always to me, at best, very well made entertaining B-flicks. I also prefer Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man on the same schlocky B-level more than I do the Hammer Frankensteins. I mean I enjoy Peter Cushing's (usually) pure evil Baron, but those movies I find can be a bit too slow. Kind of how I can understand the argument for Horror of Dracula being better than Bela Lugosi's Dracula because it's more exciting. I think it's fair, I just like the Lugosi film's atmosphere more and the performances by Lugosi and Frye.


But this is just opinion.
 
All this movie needs to do is combine the best of all those movies. :yay:
 
Lol Micheal Bay's TCM, FT13 and NMOES were not that bad they were decent. I actually think they could of been better had Bay directed those films instead of just being a producer.


The FX, cinematography, pacing (except for F13, which wasn't suspenseful enough), etc, of those films were okay. It's just the writing that sucked. Especially TCSM and ANOES. Those scripts were just aweful.
 
I still say Daniel Craig should play Van Helsing. I would cast Clive Owen as Dracula.

I wouldn't necessarily have Van Helsing take on every Universal Monster in one movie. But I would deffinitely give Dracula an army of vampires that Van Helsing will have to fight through in order to get to the count.

Maybe a franchise of movies, with Van Helsing battling a different monster in each movie (The Mummy, Frankenstein, The Wolfman, etc). That could be cool. And it wouldn't be trying to force too many different monsters into one movie.

And I like the idea of giving Van Helsing and Dracula a personal vendetta with each other. That should deffinitely be one of the focuses of the movie.
 

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