Comics Tom DeFalco on a Spider-Man book?

[OtepApe]

Not a real fan of Spider-Girl, obviously. Sheesh. You really must have something lodged up your butt, and it's big too.

Well no, I am not a fan of Spider-girl, I thought I had made that point?

Actually, part of why I am ill is that I havent got anything lodged up my butt, it's all flowing a little TOO well.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Well no, I am not a fan of Spider-girl, I thought I had made that point?

Actually, part of why I am ill is that I havent got anything lodged up my butt, it's all flowing a little TOO well.

You did. But yet you're going back and forth with me about Spider-Girl. So, it does make things a little confusing.

 

[OtepApe]

You did. But yet you're going back and forth with me about Spider-Girl. So, it does make things a little confusing.

I am going on about an aspect of it that put me off of it. Once again, I thought I had made that point???

 

[SpideyInATree]

But it's still about Spider-Girl. Yeah, you did make the point. And I took it.

And you're still sitting there talking with Spider-Girl with me.

In a thread about the writer of Spider-Girl.

 

[OtepApe]

But it's still about Spider-Girl. Yeah, you did make the point. And I took it.

And you're still sitting there talking with Spider-Girl with me.

In a thread about the writer of Spider-Girl.

Fair enough it's about Spider-girl and the flaw I find which prevents me from enjoying the title. But a flaw nonetheless.

You don't seem to like to hear criticism about 'the little title that could'. I can understand that, I wouldn't like to hear bad things said about some of my preferred titles, especially the ones that aren't that big (Runaways for example).

But I still wouldn't act the way you do.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Fair enough it's about Spider-girl and the flaw I find which prevents me from enjoying the title. But a flaw nonetheless.

You don't seem to like to hear criticism about 'the little title that could'. I can understand that, I wouldn't like to hear bad things said about some of my preferred titles, especially the ones that aren't that big (Runaways for example).

But I still wouldn't act the way you do.

I don't really care what you say about the book or the narration.

You seem to not like to hear that other people actually have differing opinions than you though. That's for sure.

 

[OtepApe]

I don't really care what you say about the book or the narration.

You seem to not like to hear that other people actually have differing opinions than you though. That's for sure.

I don't mind that people like Spider-girl. I am pleased for people who have managed to find something good coming out with the name Spider on it right now.

I said what I didn't like, then you went on about how it was stupid that I didn't like the title because of that.

So in actual fact you were the one diminishing my opinions to start with as they didn't agree with yours. Nice of you to try and spin it around.

 

[Eye Doc]

I say no to putting DeFalco back on a 616 Spidey book.

I loved his first AMZ. run up until the end of the Hobgoblin mystery. That was a huge letdown. Overall, his frist run on the book is one of my favorites. When he became EiC he began to make some poor creative decisions.

1)He approved the Clone Saga. I know it's not popular to diss it, but in hindsight that story did more harm than good. If he had spoken up and said "Hey, we can't tell the fans that every Spidey appearance between 1974 and 1994 didn't feature the real Spider-Man. That's dumb." The spider-verse would be an entirely different animal today. He was the most powerful man on the creative end b/c he was EiC at that time. He could've vetoed it. If he had allowed the clone to come back with it understood that he was A CLONE, maybe it could've worked. But the story they tried to palm off has left wounds that haven't fully healed to this day.

2) He took over Thor and FF in the 1990's and preceded to replace Thor and write Reed out of the FF for extended periods. Those books didn't began to recover until Marvel had to farm them out to IMAGE and eventually relauch thm during the "Heroes Reborn" era. No FF fan has glowing memories about Johnny marrying a skrull, Sue dressing like a skank, Ben getting his face clawed by Wolverine, Johnny freaking out and destroying a college campus, Lyja giving birth to as golden egg that later tried to destroy the team. i'm sure there isn't a back issue run on his Thor's either. What was so sad was that he followed Walt Simonson.....arguably the best Thor writer ever.

3) When he returned to AMZ after the clone saga, it was awful. I don't have fond memories from the days of "the Black Tarantula", "Doc Ock and his ressurections by The Hand ". I can't think of one standout story from that period

DeFalco seems like a nice and knowledgeable guy, but I think Spidey has passed him by. He's perfectly suited for Spider-girl and the M2 universe. You know what they say "Lightening doesn't strike in the same place twice"

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

I say no to putting DeFalco back on a 616 Spidey book.

I loved his first AMZ. run up until the end of the Hobgoblin mystery. That was a huge letdown. Overall, his frist run on the book is one of my favorites. When he became EiC he began to make some poor creative decisions.

1)He approved the Clone Saga. I know it's not popular to diss it, but in hindsight that story did more harm than good. If he had spoken up and said "Hey, we can't tell the fans that every Spidey appearance between 1974 and 1994 didn't feature the real Spider-Man. That's dumb." The spider-verse would be an entirely different animal today. He was the most powerful man on the creative end b/c he was EiC at that time. He could've vetoed it. If he had allowed the clone to come back with it understood that he was A CLONE, maybe it could've worked. But the story they tried to palm off has left wounds that haven't fully healed to this day.

2) He took over Thor and FF in the 1990's and preceded to replace Thor and write Reed out of the FF for extended periods. Those books didn't began to recover until Marvel had to farm them out to IMAGE and eventually relauch thm during the "Heroes Reborn" era. No FF fan has glowing memories about Johnny marrying a skrull, Sue dressing like a skank, Ben getting his face clawed by Wolverine, Johnny freaking out and destroying a college campus, Lyja giving birth to as golden egg that later tried to destroy the team. i'm sure there isn't a back issue run on his Thor's either. What was so sad was that he followed Walt Simonson.....arguably the best Thor writer ever.

3) When he returned to AMZ after the clone saga, it was awful. I don't have fond memories from the days of "the Black Tarantula", "Doc Ock and his ressurections by The Hand ". I can't think of one standout story from that period

DeFalco seems like a nice and knowledgeable guy, but I think Spidey has passed him by. He's perfectly suited for Spider-girl and the M2 universe. You know what they say "Lightening doesn't strike in the same place twice"

Well the Hobgoblin mystery wasn't exactly his fault, all his stories were excellent at that point and he continued to strenghthen the mystery of the H-Gob. However Marvel canned him midway through the excellent Gang War storyline, causing Peter David to have to quickly wrap up the Hobgoblin story using only the hints Defalco had dropped in the books. Defalco was long gone before that even happened, and his choice for Hobgoblin was never ever going to be Ned Leeds.

1. The Clone Saga... While some people like the clone saga and some despise it thats not really the point were going to discuss here. Defalco gave it the ok at a time when it was only going to be around 20 issues long. However when the Spider Book's started reaching record high's in sales, Bob Harass took over and pushed the Saga for all it was worth. Say what you want about the Saga, but Defalco wrote some of the best stories during it on both Spectacular and Amazing.

2. Didn't read F4, however my floor fellows who read, say they loved that peroid of FF

3. I can't disagree more, personally I loved his post Saga ASM run, he and Dematies stepped in up, bringing out the old villians and exhibiting actual characterization with them. If more people wrote MJ like Tom did during this period , Quesada wouldn't be having a stroke everytime someone mentioned her name. Black Tarantula was the most hardcore original villian the Spidey verse had seen in years, he was what Morlun was trying to be. And what about bringing back Ock? Revitalizating Electro? Identity Crisis?

Defalco IMO is above 616 Spidey right now, I hope that he stay's on Spider Girl and gives us even greater reading, after the reboot

 

[SpideyInATree]

1. The Clone Saga... While some people like the clone saga and some despise it thats not really the point were going to discuss here. Defalco gave it the ok at a time when it was only going to be around 20 issues long. However when the Spider Book's started reaching record high's in sales, Bob Harass took over and pushed the Saga for all it was worth. Say what you want about the Saga, but Defalco wrote some of the best stories during it on both Spectacular and Amazing.

This is the truth. Defalco approved it when the Clone Saga was only broken off into three major parts, much like Knightfall was three major parts over in Batman.

Under Defalco's vision the Clone Saga was only to be, as Kaine said, 20 issues long and to span over the year. The ending of the Saga, from my knowledge of Life of Reilly and speaking with Mr. Defalco himself, was not supposed to change anything. And that the plan was to keep the clone around as a second Spider-Man.

However, Mr. Defalco was taken off the Editor in Chief position after the Saga went underway and then we all know the story from there.

 

[Eye Doc]

Well the Hobgoblin mystery wasn't exactly his fault, all his stories were excellent at that point and he continued to strenghthen the mystery of the H-Gob. However Marvel canned him midway through the excellent Gang War storyline, causing Peter David to have to quickly wrap up the Hobgoblin story using only the hints Defalco had dropped in the books. Defalco was long gone before that even happened, and his choice for Hobgoblin was never ever going to be Ned Leeds.

I'll give you a thumbs up . I totally agree.

1. The Clone Saga... While some people like the clone saga and some despise it thats not really the point were going to discuss here. Defalco gave it the ok at a time when it was only going to be around 20 issues long. However when the Spider Book's started reaching record high's in sales, Bob Harass took over and pushed the Saga for all it was worth. Say what you want about the Saga, but Defalco wrote some of the best stories during it on both Spectacular and Amazing.

I'll give you some props on your argument. The story did "get away from them". Still, the whole premise was stupid. You can't build a strong house on a poor foundation. Defalco should take some blame for the following:

1)The Clone Saga should never have been revived. It had a solid beginning, midde, and end. Why drudge it up after 20 years. Marvel literally rewrote history to try to make this story work. This story helped start the trend of all of the retcons and revisions we're getting today. As EiC I still don't see why he didn't veto using a 2 decade old story as the building block for a major change in the status quo.

2) He approved the decision to kill off Aunt May. It was a great story, but in hindsight it wasn't a good creative move. Look how it turned out.

3) He approved the killing off of the Grim Hunter, Kraven's first son. This guy had some potential to be a good villian. He died a meaningless death storywise.

4) He approved the decision to allow MJ to get pregnant. BAD MOVE. We all know how that turned out. And, if I'm not mistaken Tom wrote Spec 226, the issue where Peter was "revealed" to be the clone and Peter backhanded his PREGNANT WIFE.

5) He approved, and possibly even wrote, the issue where Doc Ock was killed. He had to undo it later by ressurecting Doc via THE HAND. C'mon, you know that story was weak.

2. Didn't read F4, however my floor fellows who read, say they loved that peroid of FF

We all have varying degrees of likes and dislikes. He had some good ideas, but the execution was often poor, and sometimes just downright corny. I do know the book was in serious trouble before he left. Marvel had to farm out their founding characters to Jim Lee in Heroes Reborn just to get fans to look at the FF again. When Marvel regained control of the FF, I don't recall them begging Tom to return to the book.

3. I can't disagree more, personally I loved his post Saga ASM run, he and Dematies stepped in up, bringing out the old villians and exhibiting actual characterization with them. If more people wrote MJ like Tom did during this period , Quesada wouldn't be having a stroke everytime someone mentioned her name. Black Tarantula was the most hardcore original villian the Spidey verse had seen in years, he was what Morlun was trying to be. And what about bringing back Ock? Revitalizating Electro? Identity Crisis?

I don't recall these stories as fondly as you do. The Black Tarantula arc wasn't a compelling read. I bet he's been all but forgotten by most fans. His MJ wasn't any more interesting than Howard Mackie's. What did he really do with her that warrants merit? I've already commented on the Ock fiasco earlier. He revived him, but only because he realized his decision to kill him off was stupid in the first place. Is Electro really any cooler than he was before Tom's story? Tom was one of FOUR writers who participated in ID crisis. The story was about a 5 or 6 on a 1-10 scale. And, I wouldn't attribute it's success to Tom's participation. He only wrote 25% of it.

Defalco IMO is above 616 Spidey right now, I hope that he stay's on Spider Girl and gives us even greater reading, after the reboot

Despite my criticism of DeFalco's work, I agree with you. I'd rather have him on AMZ than JMS and Quesada.

I'll also go on the record and admit that DeFalco worked under different circumstances. IF Tom were given as much creative control on a third run as JMS has now, PERHAPS he could tell good stories and prove me wrong.

Eye Doc

 

[SpideyInATree]

I'll also go on the record and admit that DeFalco worked under different circumstances. IF Tom were given as much creative control on a third run as JMS has now, PERHAPS he could tell good stories and prove me wrong

Same thing goes for J.M. DeMatteis. He had to write stories all around the clone saga, his were some of the best during the period. If given creative control, as well, I'm sure he could have given us some amazing stories.

Too bad Marvel pushed him away.