Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

[elizah72]

well on the MCU's official Wiki (I know, kind of an oxymoron or whatever, because wiki's aren't anything official lol)

but it says Loki Laufeyson lol

LOL... well MCU Loki will have to kill someone now then, won't he?

 

[Lei D Loki]

I don't want to be spoiled but I accidentally read the supposed spoilers in another site. I hope it's not all true.

Anyway, I am very very keen on seeing Loki and his prison. What's his hair gonna be like? What will his costume look like? Will he still wear the armor? What's his prison like? How did they bind his powers? Are they even bound? Will we see the brothers wrestle in the mud in just their leather pants, shirtless and wet? Is the filming in Iceland for Loki's prison scene? These are all very important questions.

 

[elizah72]

I don't want to be spoiled but I accidentally read the supposed spoilers in another site. I hope it's not all true.

Anyway, I am very very keen on seeing Loki and his prison. What's his hair gonna be like? What will his costume look like? Will he still wear the armor? What's his prison like? How did they bind his powers? Are they even bound? Will we see the brothers wrestle in the mud in just their leather pants, shirtless and wet? Is the filming in Iceland for Loki's prison scene? These are all very important questions.

Hee! Yes. But he will be sentenced to a daily half naked mud wrestle with the opponent of our choice. Any volunteers?

I dont think Iceland sites are for the prison no. I'm assuming he's imprisoned in a far bleaker environment. I am curious to see if they have a prison costume, versus another variation on his regular costume. And if they need to and how they bind him from using magic, and will he have to still wear the muzzle. I actually think the muzzle is the closest thing we'll ever see to him having his lips sewn shut. That was probably meant to be a reference to that.

 

[Godzilla2000]

oh dear lol...

If anything, Odin's death should way mostly on Thor. If anyone. He has a much stronger relationship with his father, and the Odinforce comes in. But i don't want Odin to pass, just passing. He NEEDS to show how powerful he is, and his deaath needs to come at the hands of Surtur. Personally, I think it would be better if he dies with Surtur. Opposed to giving Thor a reason to avenge him, it sits much better.

Oh it would definitely impact Thor of course, but for Loki it would hurt even worse because he'd know that what he did in exile was the direct cause for all the events that lead to Odin's death. Whereas Thor would use his grief to gather up enough anger and strength inside him to push his powers to their limits, Loki's grief would tear away at his sanity and cause him to spin out of control.

 

[American Maid]

I'm assuming he's imprisoned in a far bleaker environment.

Yeah, like a sound stage

 

[elizah72]

Yeah, like a sound stage

LOL... unfortunately yes.

It always amazes me that these actors can come up with the emotions and performances they do and later you find out that the other actor they were talking to wasn't even on set at that moment (for closeups) or they were pretending to be in an environment that looks almost nothing like the finished product. It takes quite an imagination.

 

[jaqua99]

Oh it would definitely impact Thor of course, but for Loki it would hurt even worse because he'd know that what he did in exile was the direct cause for all the events that lead to Odin's death. Whereas Thor would use his grief to gather up enough anger and strength inside him to push his powers to their limits, Loki's grief would tear away at his sanity and cause him to spin out of control.

No, not if Surtur kills Odin.

If Surtur's plan to engulf the 9 realms in flames is just as it is in the comics, that is Surtur's own thing, and if he kills Odin, the only person who brought that on to Odin is Surtur himself. Thor is the one who learned from his father, has a stronger relationship with his father, learned to love an earth woman because of his father, learned to love earth because of his father, learned humility because of his father, learned what being a wise king is because of his father. If Odin passes in this movie (looking unlikely now) it will weigh more on Thor because of they relationship they have built, and the fact that he will eventually become king most likely. Atleast it will appear that way

 

[elizah72]

okay so, Loki fans, out of curiosity, what do you want to see for Loki in Thor 2? And I'd like to request here nicely, *please* do not proceed to just poop on what other people want to see, just because you dont like it. Everybody has their own opinion and take on the character, and what they want to see coming forward, just accept that and move on. Be cool about it, please.

My list, or the start of one, in no particular order....

1. As I stated before, I really want resolution to who his mother is and if he is a full frost giant. If he is, then he needs to transfer fully to look more like a mini Laufey, if he isnt that needs to be explained. Either version I will accept gladly but I want to see it clarified. Oh and Frost Giant powers, either way. He should be able to do at least some of the stuff that they do.

2. More magic! He's a master of magic in Thor 1, one assumes he's more powerful in Avengers after his ordeal and travels to different worlds. Let him show it! And I dont just mean making snakes appear out of a glass of wine! This is one of the reasons I'm dying for a Malekith-Loki fight.

3. Second reason I'm dying for a Malekith-Loki fight, he needs to be totally triumphant over someone at this point. He's been bested in two films now, and bested over and over, even by mortals, in the Avengers. He needs to show his power and completely unquestionably defeat someone to continue to be taken seriously as a threat/power to recon with in future. That one he defeats is not going to be Thor, that is for sure.

4. More Mischief! I want him causing trouble and manipulating left and right.

5. More turmoil and inner conflict! Without it he's just going to become a cardboard cutout of a cackling evil villain. I dont necessarily want him to redeem himself next film (if that's possible, even he would argue that there's too much "red on his ledger" at this point) but I do going forward want to see him walking a line between good and bad. Sometimes falling on the bad side, as he certainly did in Avengers, and sometimes trying to use his talents for mischief for good, either way he continues to be an unpredictable enigma. He's a complicated cat and I want to continue to see that.

6. Some really emotional Odin and Frigga and Loki scenes where they talk to him about what he's been doing, and try to get him back into the fold.

7. For once, just once at least in Thor 2, I want to see Thor reach out to him and he actually doesnt push him away, or stab him or try to kill him in return. I want to see that all poor Thor's efforts to get his old little brother back, may not be in vain in the long run.

8. Definitely want some more kid Loki-Thor/teenage Loki-Thor flashbacks. I want to see more of their relationship and adventures growing up. Even if it is just one scene.

that's all from me for now.

 

[American Maid]

7. For once, just once at least in Thor 2, I want to see Thor reach out to him and he actually doesnt push him away, or stab him or try to kill him in return. I want to see that all poor Thor's efforts to get his old little brother back, may not be in vain in the long run.

Not stabbing him would be a good start! hahah

8. Definitely want some more kid Loki-Thor/teenage Loki-Thor flashbacks. I want to see more of their relationship and adventures growing up. Even if it is just one scene.

I like all your ideas, but I especially like this one--flashbacks to when they were growing up. I think it could make quite the contrast with Loki's current behavior. (That's how it sounds to hear Thor reminisce about it.)

 

[elizah72]

Not stabbing him would be a good start! hahaha
I like all your ideas, but I especially like this one--flashbacks to when they were growing up. I think it could make quite the contrast with Loki's current behavior. (That's how it sounds to hear Thor reminisce about it.)

That's right. Plus I just think that with all of the really unconditional brotherly love that Thor has shown Loki in the MCU here, constantly trying to bring him back, even after some really really terrible acts, there has to be a reason for that kind of love. It's not just because they are brothers. I mean that kind of love can't be based on a relationship where he and his brother were constantly fighting and hating on each other growing up. There must be good times those feelings are based on. Maybe it was always Loki pretending to like Thor, but I dont think so, and it would be particularly sad and pitiful for Thor if he was being fooled by Loki all their lives into exhibiting that kind of unconditional love of a brother. So I want to see some of that early relationship shown in at least one flashback.

 

[jaqua99]

See what I want, is for the reaching to end. Loki is how he is, I want loki to accept that himself, and Thor accept that. Loki self accepting who he is, that is what I want to see. Loki doesn't NEED redemption, because he's loki. Legit, everytime I read a thor arc that inolved Loki that involved Loki plotting, to rule asgard, or whatever, I literally hate Loki, and it irritates me it's like I'll be reading it and I'll be like "ah what the **** Loki, that bastard desreves..whatever" He doesn't need redemption...and THAT is the Loki i want to see. Loki embrassing the who he is. and Thor accepting who he is. No more "reaching out". Thor should accept who Loki is and Loki should accept who he is himself. Let Loki be Loki

 

[elizah72]

As I said at the start there, people have different visions of the character, and we all may not agree or like it and that's fine.

I do need to ask you this though, say you are watching 1-6 of Star Wars, for the first time. you get to Return of the Jedi. Would you have been happy with the outcome if instead of Luke continuing to reach out to his father saying he believes there is still good in him, despite what he's done and what others say, but instead he just says, "you are evil, and I accept that" and Vader accepts being evil and doing the bidding of evil, and then Palpatine says something sarcastic like "That's nice. can we get on with this, then?" And then Luke is killed or turned or he does manage to kill Palpatine and Vader and we never have that moment, where Anakin, the father, the loving son, and the once close brother in arms of Obi Wan, does reveal that he has some good in him still. There is hope for him and he may never be able to redeem himself fully, and wipe all that red off of his ledger, but he was never just pure evil either (and one could certainly argue that Vader has done things to put him much higher on the irredeemably evil chart than MCU Loki *at this point*). Would you have been happy if that incredible moment of triumph over the evil in the villain's own heart no longer existed in the final outcome for those films? Because I most definitely would not have. I prefer much more hopeful and less bleak outlooks on people and characters. But then I am an old sentimental fool.
Although, one positive on that ending is there would have been no happy little Ewoks song at the end.

 

[SimiOfDoom]

Good Question, what I really want is for Loki to be a full on trickster and suprise me, with his actions, his thoughts or whatever. Just be a little more like myth Loki and be an ambiguous little mastermind.


And for the reaching part... I see both of your points.. personally I would like the reaching to continue, for one, because it would make Thor more of a hero in the sense that he´s still not willing to give him up and furthermore it might prevent Loki from going compltely off the deep end. Believe it or not, I still think that didn´t happen yet

 

[American Maid]

Good Question, what I really want is for Loki to be a full on trickster and suprise me, with his actions, his thoughts or whatever. Just be a little more like myth Loki and be an ambiguous little mastermind.


And for the reaching part... I see both of your points.. personally I would like the reaching to continue, for one, because it would make Thor more of a hero in the sense that he´s still not willing to give him up and furthermore it might prevent Loki from going compltely off the deep end. Believe it or not, I still think that didn´t happen yet

Great discussion everyone!

I really like SimiOfDoom's suggestion here, Loki as full-on trickster regardless. It occurred to me after I posted my comment that a flashback to Loki's and Thor's past might show Loki to have always had some trickster angle that he was working. (I haven't read any of the books that focus on their adolescence, so I don't know if what I'm suggesting would be consistent or inconsistent with that.) If that's the case, it might make the audience wonder if Thor really is ever not going to fall for that, "that" in this case being the idea of Loki being a lost soul. On the other hand, if it's presented ambiguously enough, we may wonder if what's really going on with Loki is a story arc like Anakin's, as elizah72 mentions.

(And, in case anyone is worried about it, I think it can be done without spending much screen time. So we can still have plenty of time in the present with Thor fighting Thor fights, etc.)

 

[jaqua99]

As I said at the start there, people have different visions of the character, and we all may not agree or like it and that's fine.

I do need to ask you this though, say you are watching 1-6 of Star Wars, for the first time. you get to Return of the Jedi. Would you have been happy with the outcome if instead of Luke continuing to reach out to his father saying he believes there is still good in him, despite what he's done and what others say, but instead he just says, "you are evil, and I accept that" and Vader accepts being evil and doing the bidding of evil, and then Palpatine says something sarcastic like "That's nice. can we get on with this, then?" And then Luke is killed or turned or he does manage to kill Palpatine and Vader and we never have that moment, where Anakin, the father, the loving son, and the once close brother in arms of Obi Wan, does reveal that he has some good in him still. There is hope for him and he may never be able to redeem himself fully, and wipe all that red off of his ledger, but he was never just pure evil either (and one could certainly argue that Vader has done things to put him much higher on the irredeemably evil chart than MCU Loki *at this point*). Would you have been happy if that incredible moment of triumph over the evil in the villain's own heart no longer existed in the final outcome for those films? Because I most definitely would not have. I prefer much more hopeful and less bleak outlooks on people and characters. But then I am an old sentimental fool.
Although, one positive on that ending is there would have been no happy little Ewoks song at the end.

A mix of that. I would not want *constant* reaching out, there is still good in you. Vadar is vadar. And it is slightly different though, that is how star wars is. I prefer hopeful as well. But that is not how Loki is. He has enough character that he doesn't need sympathy and hopefulness to get the depth of character, As I said, Loki doesn't NEED to be reached out, because that's what makes Loki such a great character! I love it!

Let me explain it from my perspective, I don't have anything wrong MCU Loki, but hopefully you understand from my perspective as to why I think the reaching out, and sympathizing needs to end for Loki. I know you haven't read the books (which I personally think it's funny that most of the Loki fan girls really don't know the origins of the character in the books lol :P ), but I will tell you how I got interested in Thor and Loki.

In school, years ago, I was talking to some kid, and for some reason, he brought up, that's why Marvel created Thor, to beat the Hulk!

I was like oh, Thor sounds like a cool name, so I read about him, and learned about him. Learned about Loki. Loki was the first Villain I knew in Marvel. Now this was MUCH before the MCU was around. The first run I read was the Simonson Arc. My first reaction to Loki, was like this...

Me: Mom I like these Thor books, but Loki is a jerk, he should get beaten by the hammer

Mom: Easy Jonathan, it's just a story

Me: I know, I get how Loki is all smart and trying to make evil plans, but it's so irritating to me as a reader, he's, I don't know how to put it

Mom: Sinister?

Me: What is that?

Mom: *explains*

Me: Yes, read this comic

Mom: *read it* I think he is suppose to be like that, he seems like a very interesting villain

So as I read more Thor comics, seeing how Loki is, how Thor reacts to Loki's schemes, and how selfish and evil Loki is. I don't even see the *misunderstood* part, cause I don't know if you want to hear this, but from what I've read, there was never any good in Loki. Ever, He's done some good things for his own benefit, but as far as I've read, regarding comics, there was never any good in him, which is why it leaves me scratching my head at all his the misunderstood, and the "he has some good in him still" comments, because...he certainly doesn't, he's freakin Loki! lol. All his scheming, and all he's done to make thor miserable, all his planning, and selfishness, he was my favorite villain growing up, and he's now my second favorite behind Thanos (who I love).

Now, see it from my perspective, reading of this character growing up, seeing him how I see him, you MUST understand why it irritates me to see him constantly being reached out to, because as far as I have read, that is simply not Loki, he doesn't NEED to be reached out to because he was never "really" good. And the character thrives off that, and in my eyes, that was what makes Loki...

SUCH A GOD DAMN AWESOME VILLAIN!

and to see that changed, and people viewing him differently in the mcu, just irritates me a bit. Forgive me if I come off hostile, but this is the best way I could put it, I love Loki for the comic book character he is.

And I REALLLLY want to see THAT Loki on screen.

Though I think he is sort of there. Even in the MCU there hasn't been any signs of good. Aside from the talk he had with thor in the final battle (which I think was an act) and at the end of thor when he is like "I could have done it father, for you, for all of us!" to me, that was an act.

But yes, I HIGHLY recomend reading Simonson's run, it is the arc the made me love loki and Thor

phew, hope my point got across. Don't forget, this version of Loki, the one I am talking about, the comic one, this is the Loki as I've known him for like...11 years, the character who got me into marvel and into villains for these reasons, so you've got to understand why I am a bit fustrated at some of the opinions of Loki SOLEY based off the MCU. MCU Loki is still based off the comics. But I hope you understand where I am coming from, clearly a lot of people who don't know the books too well don't see Loki the same way I do. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is just a bit irritating to me, because Loki isn't a misunderstood once good character. Loki Has been selfish, evil, and cold, and takes sibling rivarly to the next level. I honestly hope you get my point. again forgive me if it's hostile, as you may or may not have figured, I am a very opinionated person. I can't help it...I'm Italian :P

though my problem is i am carrying comic/myth Loki over into the MCU too much, but hey, what can I do? I grew up with this Loki, my opinion of him isn't going to change.

though if My Thanos gets the shaft.....

 

[jaqua99]

Good Question, what I really want is for Loki to be a full on trickster and suprise me, with his actions, his thoughts or whatever. Just be a little more like myth Loki and be an ambiguous little mastermind.


And for the reaching part... I see both of your points.. personally I would like the reaching to continue, for one, because it would make Thor more of a hero in the sense that he´s still not willing to give him up and furthermore it might prevent Loki from going compltely off the deep end. Believe it or not, I still think that didn´t happen yet

Full on trickster, yes. No emotional stuff lol

Great discussion everyone!

I really like SimiOfDoom's suggestion here, Loki as full-on trickster regardless. It occurred to me after I posted my comment that a flashback to Loki's and Thor's past might show Loki to have always had some trickster angle that he was working. (I haven't read any of the books that focus on their adolescence, so I don't know if what I'm suggesting would be consistent or inconsistent with that.) If that's the case, it might make the audience wonder if Thor really is ever not going to fall for that, "that" in this case being the idea of Loki being a lost soul. On the other hand, if it's presented ambiguously enough, we may wonder if what's really going on with Loki is a story arc like Anakin's, as elizah72 mentions.

(And, in case anyone is worried about it, I think it can be done without spending much screen time. So we can still have plenty of time in the present with Thor fighting Thor fights, etc.)

As it should be. This movie is based off my favorite arc in the Simonson run. Some great moments for Thor, and if it ends the way that arc does with Surtur, then it will be SO EPIC. And you Loki fans will get your Loki moments, and if you guys haven't read any of the books, PLEASE try to read that arc before seeing the movie, it will make the movie more enjoyable, dooooooooooo ittttttttttttttttttttt

 

[elizah72]

I can sympathize with you wanting the exact same character that you grew up with on screen, since I've been in that boat myself before, but to me at least, and from what I have read about the comic book AND myth versions, MCU Loki is just plain NOT the same character. He does appear to need the reaching out, and movies being movies, I doubt very much that it will be for nothing in the end (Thor 3 or Avengers 3, although I'm actually hoping to not see an Anakin-like scene, I think that has become cliche). Plus as said before, it adds to the heroic quality of Thor if he continues to reach out to his brother, just as Luke does to Vader. I would be very disappointed in Thor as a character if he ever stopped that.

As for when MCU Loki's putting on an act or when he's not, and whether there is good in MCU Loki at all. Take a look at him when Odin falls in that scene, his facial expression, what he does, the way he is touching Odin's hand. there is an emotion being conveyed there, and it is definitely not of pure selfish evil and glee. There is no little comic book bubble appearing over his head thinking 'HAHA! Odin has fallen into the Odinsleep! Now is my opportunity for much mischief! Asgard shall be mine!! MUAAHHAHHAHA!' and there is nothing about that performance there that makes me think that is what is going on his MCU Loki's head. He couldnt possibly be putting on an act there since no one is watching. He knows Odin is completely helpless here. If he were pure evil, no heart at all, he could have killed Odin there and claimed it was an accident or something, say he just collapsed under exhaustion and died. He had a clear opportunity and Thor was out of the way.

Let me point out also, there are plenty of just plain evil sinister characters with no sympathetic or redeeming qualities lurking around in MCU, there is no reason why we can't see a different incarnation, one that is a bit more hopeful and sympathetic, of at least one of them. In any case, You may get your completely evil sinister Loki in another incarnation of the films or tv, but that really doesnt seem to me that's going to be this particular version. But who knows, maybe in a year they'll prove me wrong and be more what you want (and I'll be the sad one! ). Maybe they'll have a flashback showing Loki even as kids just pretending with Thor, to be a good loving brother, and so all Thor's reaching out is pointless and pitiful because it's based on a trick & lies by the soulless evil Loki. That would do a lot to convince me that there was never any good at all in the MCU character, establishing that early on he's just pretending with Thor. However, that would make Thor seem really pitiful and foolish to be so completely fooled for so long.

But I'll wait and see what I see on screen rather than be convinced by someone else's opinion. again I think in this version of the character, which is clearly different from what you have read, he is certainly based on the comics/myth character but he is not the same. He is a different incarnation. Apples and oranges, they are both fruit, but .... lol you get my drift?

And lastly, it's the MCU forum for the film! Of course people are going to base their opinion mainly off the MCU! I can sympathize and understand your irritation but it is the appropriate forum for talk about the characters in the film. Not like people are going over to the comics forums and saying the same things about that Loki. I'm sure I would disagree with you very little on comic book Loki, from what I have seen. However, they are different characters with the same name, and some of the same emotions and motivations, and some of the same background/history, but still they are apples and oranges... Some fans may consider that a major fail, but I hope they can still enjoy the films and the performances anyway.

And I'm pretty sure if your mom read some SW comics with Vader circa the original trilogy, she'd says he's just supposed to be sinister like that about him too.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Tom Hiddleston himself has stated in past interviews that both he and Kenneth Branaugh were not interested in making Loki a stereotypical villain that was evil just for the sake of being evil. The intention was to create a villain that was much more real and relateable.

 

[SimiOfDoom]

Full on trickster, yes. No emotional stuff lol

That´s not quite it. A trickster by nature has to rely on people around him so having people on your good side is actually helpful. And a real trickster should play with emotions, because that´s where he can get into people´s heads.

That is my main problem with comic Loki; he´s too plain evil and in my opinion too easy to read. If it weren´t for Balder´s stupidity his shenanigans during JMS run would never have worked...
MCU Loki still has the chance to get into peoples good graces and play his cards differently.


Just so you understand where I´m coming from, I am quite well versed in norse mythology and just love the character dynamics there. I have yet to read or see some incarnation of Loki who reaches his mythological origin in sheer unpredictability and a huge part of THAT is how he´s around the people he lives with. Most people tend to forget that he´s all buddy-buddy with Odin, and Thor, and Frejya.... And the fact that most scholars to this day aren´t sure of Myth!Lokis motives is evidence for me that he is THE trickster archetype.

 

[American Maid]

@jaqua99: (btw, do you prefer to be called Jonathan?) I can relate to how you feel about the movie being out of step with the presentation you were long familiar with. I had mixed feelings about the Star Trek reboot (the one that Chris Hemsworth had the small part in). It was enjoyable in its own right, but they took out parts (such as, well, Vulcan) that I thought were pretty core to the original stories. So part of my reaction was that it wasn't the Star Trek I knew. I suppose I will go to the next one, though maybe I won't be as engaged with that run as I was with various other installments in the franchise.

I first got engaged with the Avengers franchise through the movies, starting with Iron Man1. Seeing Thor1 got me much more excited about the franchise (leading to my joining this forum, among other things). Most of my context is from the movies, so I have less emotional engagement with the book portrayal. But as you can probably tell, I am interested in different perspectives on this or that part of a story. I am interested in reading what people consider the best story arcs in Thor (not just the Simonson run), and I am intrigued by this "walk the tightrope"/"still good in him" characterization of Loki. I think they could also do a sociopath characterization very well, and that would be a very scary villain. But I agree with elizah72 that it seems likely they are not going to go that way.

I appreciate being able to talk to people who also are very interested in these works, in any event!

 

[Godzilla2000]

This video was in my Youtube recommendations and I wanted to share it all with you. The song choice and editing is absolutely perfect.

 

[jaqua99]

I can sympathize with you wanting the exact same character that you grew up with on screen, since I've been in that boat myself before, but to me at least, and from what I have read about the comic book AND myth versions, MCU Loki is just plain NOT the same character. He does appear to need the reaching out, and movies being movies, I doubt very much that it will be for nothing in the end (Thor 3 or Avengers 3, although I'm actually hoping to not see an Anakin-like scene, I think that has become cliche). Plus as said before, it adds to the heroic quality of Thor if he continues to reach out to his brother, just as Luke does to Vader. I would be very disappointed in Thor as a character if he ever stopped that.

As for when MCU Loki's putting on an act or when he's not, and whether there is good in MCU Loki at all. Take a look at him when Odin falls in that scene, his facial expression, what he does, the way he is touching Odin's hand. there is an emotion being conveyed there, and it is definitely not of pure selfish evil and glee. There is no little comic book bubble appearing over his head thinking 'HAHA! Odin has fallen into the Odinsleep! Now is my opportunity for much mischief! Asgard shall be mine!! MUAAHHAHHAHA!' and there is nothing about that performance there that makes me think that is what is going on his MCU Loki's head. He couldnt possibly be putting on an act there since no one is watching. He knows Odin is completely helpless here. If he were pure evil, no heart at all, he could have killed Odin there and claimed it was an accident or something, say he just collapsed under exhaustion and died. He had a clear opportunity and Thor was out of the way.

Let me point out also, there are plenty of just plain evil sinister characters with no sympathetic or redeeming qualities lurking around in MCU, there is no reason why we can't see a different incarnation, one that is a bit more hopeful and sympathetic, of at least one of them. In any case, You may get your completely evil sinister Loki in another incarnation of the films or tv, but that really doesnt seem to me that's going to be this particular version. But who knows, maybe in a year they'll prove me wrong and be more what you want (and I'll be the sad one! ). Maybe they'll have a flashback showing Loki even as kids just pretending with Thor, to be a good loving brother, and so all Thor's reaching out is pointless and pitiful because it's based on a trick & lies by the soulless evil Loki. That would do a lot to convince me that there was never any good at all in the MCU character, establishing that early on he's just pretending with Thor. However, that would make Thor seem really pitiful and foolish to be so completely fooled for so long.

But I'll wait and see what I see on screen rather than be convinced by someone else's opinion. again I think in this version of the character, which is clearly different from what you have read, he is certainly based on the comics/myth character but he is not the same. He is a different incarnation. Apples and oranges, they are both fruit, but .... lol you get my drift?

And lastly, it's the MCU forum for the film! Of course people are going to base their opinion mainly off the MCU! I can sympathize and understand your irritation but it is the appropriate forum for talk about the characters in the film. Not like people are going over to the comics forums and saying the same things about that Loki. I'm sure I would disagree with you very little on comic book Loki, from what I have seen. However, they are different characters with the same name, and some of the same emotions and motivations, and some of the same background/history, but still they are apples and oranges... Some fans may consider that a major fail, but I hope they can still enjoy the films and the performances anyway.

And I'm pretty sure if your mom read some SW comics with Vader circa the original trilogy, she'd says he's just supposed to be sinister like that about him too.

I totally do. I completely get where you are coming from, It's just, the character I grew up with, I don't change lol. Not just in comics, but in anything, I always have a hard time adjusting to change.

There is nothing wrong with the MCU Loki, don't get me wrong. It's just the fact, that he isn't the Loki that I knew, and it's a pooper, and that's my thought. I like MCU Loki, just not as much as comic Loki. And that's that

@jaqua99: (btw, do you prefer to be called Jonathan?) I can relate to how you feel about the movie being out of step with the presentation you were long familiar with. I had mixed feelings about the Star Trek reboot (the one that Chris Hemsworth had the small part in). It was enjoyable in its own right, but they took out parts (such as, well, Vulcan) that I thought were pretty core to the original stories. So part of my reaction was that it wasn't the Star Trek I knew. I suppose I will go to the next one, though maybe I won't be as engaged with that run as I was with various other installments in the franchise.

I first got engaged with the Avengers franchise through the movies, starting with Iron Man1. Seeing Thor1 got me much more excited about the franchise (leading to my joining this forum, among other things). Most of my context is from the movies, so I have less emotional engagement with the book portrayal. But as you can probably tell, I am interested in different perspectives on this or that part of a story. I am interested in reading what people consider the best story arcs in Thor (not just the Simonson run), and I am intrigued by this "walk the tightrope"/"still good in him" characterization of Loki. I think they could also do a sociopath characterization very well, and that would be a very scary villain. But I agree with elizah72 that it seems likely they are not going to go that way.

I appreciate being able to talk to people who also are very interested in these works, in any event!

Yeah. They simply aren't going that route for Loki. It's okay, I still like him, but I mean, I would just prefer to see the Loki I grew up with. Though, Thor seems to be great. I would like a weeee bit more of the arrogant thor, like we saw in the first movie, "you dare touch the son of Odin?"

Like when Stark tackled Thor off the mountain, and Thor goes "do not touch me again" I would have liked it better if he said "you dare touch the son of odin!?"

And once you get the time, I HIGHLY recommend the Simonson run, great way to start, I just finished reading v3 of thor. I haven't gotten the chance to read a lot, being 20 years old, and always being busy with school and sports, I read what I can. Even now still, but reading a comic or two before bed is a great way to start :P

And you can call me Jonathan, Jon, whatever you want lol

 

[American Maid]

Yeah. They simply aren't going that route for Loki. It's okay, I still like him, but I mean, I would just prefer to see the Loki I grew up with. Though, Thor seems to be great. I would like a weeee bit more of the arrogant thor, like we saw in the first movie, "you dare touch the son of Odin?"

Like when Stark tackled Thor off the mountain, and Thor goes "do not touch me again" I would have liked it better if he said "you dare touch the son of odin!?"

And once you get the time, I HIGHLY recommend the Simonson run, great way to start, I just finished reading v3 of thor. I haven't gotten the chance to read a lot, being 20 years old, and always being busy with school and sports, I read what I can. Even now still, but reading a comic or two before bed is a great way to start :P

And you can call me Jonathan, Jon, whatever you want lol

Thanks!

I suppose they're trying to balance capturing the sense of how Thor speaks in the books with keeping him relate-able. Iron Man has had more movies, so probably the general audience is more on his side. If Thor refers to himself in the third person ("the son of Odin"), people might think, "well, that's pretty self-important". But he came off prickly enough with the line he had!

Interesting that there doesn't seem to be the need for any such language balance with Loki He somehow speaks more closely to the vernacular.

The Simonson run is the first in my queue of Thor books! I've been holding it out for myself as a carrot to keep me working on a goal. But maybe I could read a few pages a day on the bus. . . .

 

[jaqua99]

Thanks!

I suppose they're trying to balance capturing the sense of how Thor speaks in the books with keeping him relate-able. Iron Man has had more movies, so probably the general audience is more on his side. If Thor refers to himself in the third person ("the son of Odin"), people might think, "well, that's pretty self-important". But he came off prickly enough with the line he had!

Interesting that there doesn't seem to be the need for any such language balance with Loki He somehow speaks more closely to the vernacular.

The Simonson run is the first in my queue of Thor books! I've been holding it out for myself as a carrot to keep me working on a goal. But maybe I could read a few pages a day on the bus. . . .

hahahhaha :P

I think it is interesting how Odin did speak a bit with shakespearean dialogue

fo thor's coronation, when he talks about mjolnir, he says "tis' a fit companion for a king"

come on marvel keep it up!

 

[elizah72]

@jaqua99: I can relate to how you feel about the movie being out of step with the presentation you were long familiar with. I had mixed feelings about the Star Trek reboot (the one that Chris Hemsworth had the small part in). It was enjoyable in its own right, but they took out parts (such as, well, Vulcan) that I thought were pretty core to the original stories. So part of my reaction was that it wasn't the Star Trek I knew. I suppose I will go to the next one, though maybe I won't be as engaged with that run as I was with various other installments in the franchise.

See that makes me feel sad AM. I was not a Star Trek fan so much going in, I liked Next Generation, mainly due to Data, but not so much on the other parts of the franchise or the original. BUT I enjoyed that Star Trek tremendously, from beginning to end, it made me feel like I could be a fan. I thoroughly enjoyed the characters, the storyline, the casting the action... I would have thought that established fans would enjoy the films just as much if not more.

Speaking of Loki speaking more the vernacular. In Avengers he seems to be very very familiar with things of Midgard, such as clothing, cars, and cameras, and even security cameras, and computer monitors. This is in stark contrast to Thor's very out of place appearance on Earth in Thor. I'd say Loki has been on Midgard A LOT. (Loki-centric Prequel, anyone? LOL, Would love to see more suited Loki in any case)

A thought I've been pondering going into Thor 2, we were talking in another thread about Erik's odd reaction when taken over by Loki's staff, and working with the Tesseract, what if the staff/Tesseract has been influencing Loki the whole time of Avengers? I wonder if they will go in that direction handling him for Thor 2. I am not saying he's been completely possessed by it in Avengers, but more it's exacerbating the troubled emotions that are already there, greatly heightening them. it was clear that the staff was influencing all the Avengers into arguing in that scene. But they were not completely possessed by it as Barton and Erik were. So why not the same type of influence for Loki? The whole line where he says he was tossed into an abyss by Thor, has continued to bother me but this may be an explanation. I mean, Thor was there, Odin was there, one assumes Whedon watched that scene and knows what happened. Why would he say that? Because he is just lying to himself and so why? Unless something is influencing him and twisting his memories and emotions even more than he does that on his own. I dont really consider this canon, but the deleted scene Loki says to Erik "yes, it effects everyone differently." Hm...

or to make Jaqua99 happy, maybe he'll just pretend the staff/Tesseract was influencing him the whole time, just to get back into the family's good graces again, only later to reveal that it wasn't, and he was only trying to get his back on the throne of Asgard again. Nah. I dont like that version. LOL

Not excusing anything with this suggestion by the way, he still did what he did in Thor and there was no staff or Tesseract there.

By the way, one of my favorite villain redemption arcs was Faith's from Buffy. I am actually hoping for something slightly more along those lines.