Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux

[jaqua99]

See that makes me feel sad AM. I was not a Star Trek fan so much going in, I liked Next Generation, mainly due to Data, but not so much on the other parts of the franchise or the original. BUT I enjoyed that Star Trek tremendously, from beginning to end, it made me feel like I could be a fan. I thoroughly enjoyed the characters, the storyline, the casting the action... I would have thought that established fans would enjoy the films just as much if not more.

Speaking of Loki speaking more the vernacular. In Avengers he seems to be very very familiar with things of Midgard, such as clothing, cars, and cameras, and even security cameras, and computer monitors. This is in stark contrast to Thor's very out of place appearance on Earth in Thor. I'd say Loki has been on Midgard A LOT. (Loki-centric Prequel, anyone? LOL, Would love to see more suited Loki in any case)

A thought I've been pondering going into Thor 2, we were talking in another thread about Erik's odd reaction when taken over by Loki's staff, and working with the Tesseract, what if the staff/Tesseract has been influencing Loki the whole time of Avengers? I wonder if they will go in that direction handling him for Thor 2. I am not saying he's been completely possessed by it in Avengers, but more it's exacerbating the troubled emotions that are already there, greatly heightening them. it was clear that the staff was influencing all the Avengers into arguing in that scene. But they were not completely possessed by it as Barton and Erik were. So why not the same type of influence for Loki? The whole line where he says he was tossed into an abyss by Thor, has continued to bother me but this may be an explanation. I mean, Thor was there, Odin was there, one assumes Whedon watched that scene and knows what happened. Why would he say that? Because he is just lying to himself and so why? Unless something is influencing him and twisting his memories and emotions even more than he does that on his own. I dont really consider this canon, but the deleted scene Loki says to Erik "yes, it effects everyone differently." Hm...

or to make Jaqua99 happy, maybe he'll just pretend the staff/Tesseract was influencing him the whole time, just to get back into the family's good graces again, only later to reveal that it wasn't, and he was only trying to get his back on the throne of Asgard again. Nah. I dont like that version. LOL

Not excusing anything with this suggestion by the way, he still did what he did in Thor and there was no staff or Tesseract there.

By the way, one of my favorite villain redemption arcs was Faith's from Buffy. I am actually hoping for something slightly more along those lines.

Honestly, I think everything that Loki did in the avengers, and everything that happened, were all influenced by Thanos. Clearly he scared him. Clearly. Loki has a large bounty on his head now

 

[elizah72]

Honestly, I think everything that Loki did in the avengers, and everything that happened, were all influenced by Thanos. Clearly he scared him. Clearly. Loki has a large bounty on his head now

well that too yes, (we agree on something! Yay!!! ) that is clear from the end of his scene with Mr. Touchy-Feely there (aka the Other), but the other could be true as well/in addition... again it would explain the lie about how he got tossed into that abyss. There's got to be a reason why that is there, as it is so clearly not what happened.

 

[American Maid]

fo thor's coronation, when [Odin] talks about mjolnir, he says "tis' a fit companion for a king"

And, bless his heart, (at least, if I recall correctly), he pronounces Thor's name in the Scandinavian way: Tor.

 

[elizah72]

And, bless his heart, (at least, if I recall correctly), he pronounces Thor's name in the Scandinavian way: Tor.

I seem to recall some interview with Tom early on where the reporter questions how Anthony pronounced Loki, and Tom was just basically like "well he's Welsh..." lol so that may be just the Welsh accent coming through. lol

 

[Doc Ock]

Honestly, I think everything that Loki did in the avengers, and everything that happened, were all influenced by Thanos. Clearly he scared him. Clearly. Loki has a large bounty on his head now

Yes, I also think Loki may not have a bounty on his head. Maybe Thanos learning about "challenging Earth is to court death" will cause him to not be wrathful on Loki. But force Loki to continue to do his bidding such as giving the Gauntlet to Thanos if that is indeed in Odin's treasure room.

 

[American Maid]

See that makes me feel sad AM. I was not a Star Trek fan so much going in, I liked Next Generation, mainly due to Data, but not so much on the other parts of the franchise or the original. BUT I enjoyed that Star Trek tremendously, from beginning to end, it made me feel like I could be a fan. I thoroughly enjoyed the characters, the storyline, the casting the action... I would have thought that established fans would enjoy the films just as much if not more.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed it. (For example, I thought every last person they cast as the marquis characters was well chosen and did a great job). It's just when they departed from major elements, I guess you'd call it canon, it was just a little jarring. And I had to have this little conversation with myself, "it's perfectly fine on its own merit, just different from what I've seen previously. And they had to do this, anyway, because so many stories have been done about (for example) Vulcan already." So as a result, mixed feelings.

I could say more, but I'm trying not to hijack the thread too often. My point in bringing it up was to say that I recognize where Jonathan is coming from vis-a-vis Loki. Whew! Got back to the topic.

 

[American Maid]

Speaking of Loki speaking more the vernacular. In Avengers he seems to be very very familiar with things of Midgard, such as clothing, cars, and cameras, and even security cameras, and computer monitors. This is in stark contrast to Thor's very out of place appearance on Earth in Thor. I'd say Loki has been on Midgard A LOT. (Loki-centric Prequel, anyone? LOL

That sounds like an apt assessment.

A thought I've been pondering going into Thor 2, we were talking in another thread about Erik's odd reaction when taken over by Loki's staff, and working with the Tesseract, what if the staff/Tesseract has been influencing Loki the whole time of Avengers? I wonder if they will go in that direction handling him for Thor 2. I am not saying he's been completely possessed by it in Avengers, but more it's exacerbating the troubled emotions that are already there, greatly heightening them. it was clear that the staff was influencing all the Avengers into arguing in that scene. But they were not completely possessed by it as Barton and Erik were. So why not the same type of influence for Loki?

Seems reasonable. In that bickering scene, Thor says something condescending about how the humans are so puny (dont' have access to my quote files at the moment) and it startled me for a second, striking me as at odds with the whole point of Thor1. But then of course we realize it's the staff influencing everyone, including Thor.

Another thing I recalled when looking at that video Godzilla2000 posted (great video, btw, and the lyrics are pretty apt, too!) was how disoriented Loki looked when he first came through the portal. He wasn't that way going through the Bifrost. I wonder if that's also an effect of the Tesseract.

The whole line where he says he was tossed into an abyss by Thor, has continued to bother me but this may be an explanation. I mean, Thor was there, Odin was there, one assumes Whedon watched that scene and knows what happened. Why would he say that? Because he is just lying to himself and so why? Unless something is influencing him and twisting his memories and emotions even more than he does that on his own. I dont really consider this canon, but the deleted scene Loki says to Erik "yes, it effects everyone differently." Hm...

or to make Jaqua99 happy, maybe he'll just pretend the staff/Tesseract was influencing him the whole time, just to get back into the family's good graces again, only later to reveal that it wasn't, and he was only trying to get his back on the throne of Asgard again. Nah. I dont like that version. LOL

Not excusing anything with this suggestion by the way, he still did what he did in Thor and there was no staff or Tesseract there.

Well, it could be evidence for a characterization like this: sometimes people will blame everyone else instead of taking responsibility themselves for their own actions. I.e., I didn't let go of the staff, you tossed me in. A similar phenomenon is projecting their own motives onto someone else. Not saying it's definitely that way, but it could be seen that way.

 

[elizah72]

I believe Thor says petty. Pretty sure it's not puny, but yes. If it's influencing Thor then it could be influencing Loki as well. (in addition to being scared of Thanos. Although notice how he looks past the Other to the stairs, as if looking to get past this loser minion and talk directly to the big guy. lol)

Loki looks like he's been through hell there, yes. So not an easy journey, and they didnt show his face before the journey which leads me to question if he looked like that even before going through the portal. It appears he's been in a bad dark place for a while, either way.

I can see the blame everyone but yourself scenario too, yes. I was actually thinking that before I wondered about the Tesseract influencing. But it always seemed like a tiny bit of a stretch for such an obvious lie, that Thor knew to be untrue, unless something else had sort of helped twist it into that, so he could convince himself that he has more reasons to hate Thor and do what he's doing and never come home. Another thing, we'll have to wait and see about! Ugh!

Another point, if just a hard hit on the head is all that Hawkeye needed to snap out of his possession, then certainly being bashed into the ground a few times by Hulk could have snapped Loki out of it, and would explain that sort of coy/trying to be charming and weasel out of trouble moment at the end where he says "I'll have that drink now..." That seems much less aggressive Avengers Loki and much more Thor 1 charming/suck up to get what I want Loki to me for some reason. That could also explain why he is allowing himself to be taken home now without putting up any more of a fight. Unless he's just up to something again... hmmmm... lol

I do love Florence and the Machine. Godzilla2000 Cosmic Love and Shake it out are my favorites of her songs though.

 

[elizah72]

And this is just one theory, not married to it or anything, however *IF* we wind up seeing a much less aggressive nasty Loki in Thor 2, than in Avengers, and he's a bit more like he was in Thor 1, then the Tesseract and staff influencing him during that time, and no longer influencing by Thor 2, could certainly be the reason why. He'd still have to go to prison for his Thor 1 crimes either way.

 

[Godzilla2000]

I believe Thor says petty. Pretty sure it's not puny, but yes. If it's influencing Thor then it could be influencing Loki as well. (in addition to being scared of Thanos. Although notice how he looks past the Other to the stairs, as if looking to get past this loser minion and talk directly to the big guy. lol)

Loki looks like he's been through hell there, yes. So not an easy journey, and they didnt show his face before the journey which leads me to question if he looked like that even before going through the portal. It appears he's been in a bad dark place for a while, either way.

I can see the blame everyone but yourself scenario too, yes. I was actually thinking that before I wondered about the Tesseract influencing. But it always seemed like a tiny bit of a stretch for such an obvious lie, that Thor knew to be untrue, unless something else had sort of helped twist it into that, so he could convince himself that he has more reasons to hate Thor and do what he's doing and never come home. Another thing, we'll have to wait and see about! Ugh!

Another point, if just a hard hit on the head is all that Hawkeye needed to snap out of his possession, then certainly being bashed into the ground a few times by Hulk could have snapped Loki out of it, and would explain that sort of coy/trying to be charming and weasel out of trouble moment at the end where he says "I'll have that drink now..." That seems much less aggressive Avengers Loki and much more Thor 1 charming/suck up to get what I want Loki to me for some reason. That could also explain why he is allowing himself to be taken home now without putting up any more of a fight. Unless he's just up to something again... hmmmm... lol

I don't believe that Loki was possessed by anything but his own ambition though. When possessed by the power of the Tesseract the victim's eyes turn completely blue, and Loki's eyes were not an unnatural shade of blue, just the hypnotic natural shade of blue that they usually are.

 

[elizah72]

I don't believe that Loki was possessed by anything but his own ambition though. When possessed by the power of the Tesseract the victim's eyes turn completely blue, and Loki's eyes were not an unnatural shade of blue, just the hypnotic natural shade of blue that they usually are.

Oh agreed, I'm not saying he could have been possessed in the same way as Barton and Erik. Just more of an influence that he needed snapping out of.

 

[Godzilla2000]

But the thing with Loki is that he doesn't want to snap out of it. In a perverse way I think that by being a bully it gives Loki some power over most likely having been bullied himself. You see just like in the real world bullies are twisted this way, enjoying the fact that they make good, honorable people uncomfortable. Bullies are a paradox in that they want sympathy but act in a manner that does not deserve sympathy. I was talking to my mother today while we were running errands and shopping about how I'm conflicted when it comes to Loki. I told her with what he's pulled in the Avengers I just want to smack him and tell him to stop doing such nasty things to people that are trying to help him. But you know as in real life Loki seems the sort that just enjoys watching people suffering, like bringing them to their knees is intoxicating to him. But as we all know when you revel in negativity or selfishness you will reap negativity right back. I foresee a lot of self inflicted suffering for Loki in the near future.

 

[American Maid]

But the thing with Loki is that he doesn't want to snap out of it. In a perverse way I think that by being a bully it gives Loki some power over most likely having been bullied himself. You see just like in the real world bullies are twisted this way, enjoying the fact that they make good, honorable people uncomfortable. Bullies are a paradox in that they want sympathy but act in a manner that does not deserve sympathy. I was talking to my mother today while we were running errands and shopping about how I'm conflicted when it comes to Loki. I told her with what he's pulled in the Avengers I just want to smack him and tell him to stop doing such nasty things to people that are trying to help him. But you know as in real life Loki seems the sort that just enjoys watching people suffering, like bringing them to their knees is intoxicating to him. But as we all know when you revel in negativity or selfishness you will reap negativity right back. I foresee a lot of self inflicted suffering for Loki in the near future.

I can see that!

 

[American Maid]

FWIW, I have access to my quote file again, and here's the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny."

 

[Herolee10]

There's one thing that I'm confused on that took place in the Avengers that I'm wondering if it'll be transferred into this film in regards to Loki.

By all accounts, we've seen with Loki's actions and wit Tom's comments about Loki on how Loki has thrown away his ties with Asgard; hell when he was reunited with Thor on Earth, he corrected Thor in saying that Odin was Thor's father and not his...

But in the same time, when Loki first arrived on Earth, he said that he was Loki of "Asgard" and when he had met with "The Other", he insisted that he was its rightful king, despite the fact that it was said by Loki in "Thor" that he was never after the Thrown, just after his father's respect.

So going from all of that, where does Loki really stand when it comes to his views/thoughts on Asgard? Is this meant to signify that he still has some type of small emotional ties to what was once his home for so long? Will this motivate his actions when the Dark Elves attack?

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

There's one thing that I'm confused on that took place in the Avengers that I'm wondering if it'll be transferred into this film in regards to Loki.

By all accounts, we've seen with Loki's actions and wit Tom's comments about Loki on how Loki has thrown away his ties with Asgard; hell when he was reunited with Thor on Earth, he corrected Thor in saying that Odin was Thor's father and not his...

But in the same time, when Loki first arrived on Earth, he said that he was Loki of "Asgard" and when he had met with "The Other", he insisted that he was its rightful king, despite the fact that it was said by Loki in "Thor" that he was never after the Thrown, just after his father's respect.

So going from all of that, where does Loki really stand when it comes to his views/thoughts on Asgard? Is this meant to signify that he still has some type of small emotional ties to what was once his home for so long? Will this motivate his actions when the Dark Elves attack?

I take it to mean that he knows that Asgard is the ultimate power in the universe so when addressing non-Asgardians maybe he subconsciously refers to himself as an Asgardian to show his superiority. But still let's face it, Loki will never be able to let go completely.

 

[elizah72]

FWIW, I have access to my quote file again, and here's the line: "You people are so petty, and tiny."

yes. LOL

Just came across this fan image on tumblr that his pretty cool, the Thor 2 Loki poster should look like this!

http://tomhiddlestunned.tumblr.com/post/34394429227

I'm quite partial to this fan image as well..
http://tomhiddlestunned.tumblr.com/post/34306815003/eight-character-traits-loki-laufeyson

 

[Godzilla2000]

There's one thing that I'm confused on that took place in the Avengers that I'm wondering if it'll be transferred into this film in regards to Loki.

By all accounts, we've seen with Loki's actions and wit Tom's comments about Loki on how Loki has thrown away his ties with Asgard; hell when he was reunited with Thor on Earth, he corrected Thor in saying that Odin was Thor's father and not his...

But in the same time, when Loki first arrived on Earth, he said that he was Loki of "Asgard" and when he had met with "The Other", he insisted that he was its rightful king, despite the fact that it was said by Loki in "Thor" that he was never after the Thrown, just after his father's respect.

So going from all of that, where does Loki really stand when it comes to his views/thoughts on Asgard? Is this meant to signify that he still has some type of small emotional ties to what was once his home for so long? Will this motivate his actions when the Dark Elves attack?

I think if you treat Loki as a walking paradox the way he addresses himself isn't as puzzling. Loki is by all means an opportunist. If saying he's from Asgard will elevate his status he will use it like a fine tuned weapon to humble the people he deems beneath him. Basically he will use anything he can to perpetuate the lie he has created for himself about his significance. When someone like Thor comes around who knows the truth but just wants Loki to accept things and move on he becomes pestilent because the truth bursts his self created bubble of falsities he himself has conjured up to ignore his personality flaws. Since Thor doesn't bow to Loki's self created alter he will react in a negative fashion when speaking with his adopted brother.

 

[jaqua99]

I believe Thor says petty. Pretty sure it's not puny, but yes. If it's influencing Thor then it could be influencing Loki as well. (in addition to being scared of Thanos. Although notice how he looks past the Other to the stairs, as if looking to get past this loser minion and talk directly to the big guy. lol)

Loki looks like he's been through hell there, yes. So not an easy journey, and they didnt show his face before the journey which leads me to question if he looked like that even before going through the portal. It appears he's been in a bad dark place for a while, either way.

I can see the blame everyone but yourself scenario too, yes. I was actually thinking that before I wondered about the Tesseract influencing. But it always seemed like a tiny bit of a stretch for such an obvious lie, that Thor knew to be untrue, unless something else had sort of helped twist it into that, so he could convince himself that he has more reasons to hate Thor and do what he's doing and never come home. Another thing, we'll have to wait and see about! Ugh!

Another point, if just a hard hit on the head is all that Hawkeye needed to snap out of his possession, then certainly being bashed into the ground a few times by Hulk could have snapped Loki out of it, and would explain that sort of coy/trying to be charming and weasel out of trouble moment at the end where he says "I'll have that drink now..." That seems much less aggressive Avengers Loki and much more Thor 1 charming/suck up to get what I want Loki to me for some reason. That could also explain why he is allowing himself to be taken home now without putting up any more of a fight. Unless he's just up to something again... hmmmm... lol

I do love Florence and the Machine. Godzilla2000 Cosmic Love and Shake it out are my favorites of her songs though.

idk about that. I think that was more of a cautious look, like he is curious as to who this is, there is some fear. I believe Loki knows who he is

And this is just one theory, not married to it or anything, however *IF* we wind up seeing a much less aggressive nasty Loki in Thor 2, than in Avengers, and he's a bit more like he was in Thor 1, then the Tesseract and staff influencing him during that time, and no longer influencing by Thor 2, could certainly be the reason why. He'd still have to go to prison for his Thor 1 crimes either way.

My problem with that thoery is that Loki's motives were emotionally set in course at the end of Thor, when he dropped. Seconly, he wasn't any *less* nasty in Thor 1. The stuff he did was pretty damn cold, trying to destroy jotenheim, and such. What we've seen out of Loki so far, I think that's ALL loki

 

[elizah72]

I guess what I mean that in the beginning of Avengers especially and many times in that movie, he behaves less like a mischievous silver tongued charmer and more like an uncontrollable vicious rabid feral dog, even more than at the end of Thor during that fight. He even looks rabid and feral when he first comes out of the portal. And I'm thinking that may be dialed back quite a bit for Thor 2, if the spoilers are true. And if so the staff/Tesseract exacerbating those already twisted emotions in Avengers, and now no longer being in play, *might* be one explanation for why. But of course we dont know for sure how he'll act in Thor 2 yet, since it hasn't come out. it's all just guessing... *shrugs*

 

[jaqua99]

i think it's more so what has happened may have influenced him/ changed him, i dont think that the tesseract and the sceptor had a direct influence on his personality

 

[Godzilla2000]

Well that and because Josss Whedon told Tom to act more feral too.

 

[elizah72]

Well that and because Josss Whedon told Tom to act more feral too.

This is true! But why I guess is what I was asking.

Dont know if this was shared before but interesting interview from late Sept. where they use the word "feral" and "dialing up the menace" as well as character motivations, and his hope for eventual redemption for Loki.



Hiddleston will reprise the role for next year’s sequel, “Thor: The Dark World,” directed by Alan Taylor (“Game of Thrones&#8221. Will Loki finally find redemption?

“I hope so, I really hope so,” Hiddleston said. “I hope you can see glimmers of it in ‘The Avengers.’ There’s a bit where we’re on the tower and Thor’s like, ‘Look around. You don’t have to do this.’ I think he’s probably going to get a hiding when he goes back home. I think his father’s going to have a few things to say. … Grounded for a long time. I haven’t read a script yet, but I know that we certainly can’t recycle what we’ve done. Loki, I think, has been about as bad as he can be.”

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2012...m-hiddleston-hopes-for-redemption-in-loki/#/0

 

[Godzilla2000]

Hmmm...Tom Hiddleston says that Loki is about as bad as he can be, but I think Loki has yet to show us his worst though. I still believe that the final betrayal of Asgard from Loki's pent up bitterness has yet to be seen.

 

[elizah72]

Hmmm...Tom Hiddleston says that Loki is about as bad as he can be, but I think Loki has yet to show us his worst though. I still believe that the final betrayal of Asgard from Loki's pent up bitterness has yet to be seen.

Maybe, he can't be sure what they are going to do in the end, just what he hopes happens. He is very much correct though, they can't keep recycling the same things. That will get boring and predictable fast.