Too Many Franchises?

[Dasher10]

Does anyone else feel like Phase 4 needs fewer new franchises than Phase 3 since the wait between films is already at four years between Thor installments, there's no new Hulk or Iron Man film and while I feel like War Machine and Black Widow have franchise potential, doing those while also doing Hulk and Iron Man sequels means upping the productions schedule to 4 a year, particularly if the Fantastic Four rights revert.

Increasing the number of franchises means either five films per year which is overkill for a shared universe since at that point, it'll become too hard to follow the overarching narrative since films featuring characters who audiences don't otherwise care about will begin being lost in subsequent films.

I feel like if the Fantastic Four don't revert, then Namor or Ms. Marvel should be done in its place but anything more really is overkill. (I'm actually in favor of both and capping Ant-Man as a trilogy.) Those are the only other two properties which I feel really have feature film potential and can justify a nine figure budget. Ms. Marvel especially since once Spider-Man ages out of high school, Kamala Khan will be needed to get teenage viewers interested in the MCU.

I also feel like there's enough solo material for a one-and-done Vision, Hawkeye, Black Knight, Winter Soldier or Wonder Man film but those can more than be done as a TV movie with a smaller budget of around $30-$50 million (and Wonder Man's origin IMO needs to be done in an Avengers film). I also don't think that there's enough well-regarded Scarlet Witch or Falcon material for a full film franchise.

And anything and everything else really can be done on a TV show's budget. Moon Knight and Elektra fit the Defenders universe on Netflix a bit too well. Shang Chi would need to be done on Netflix since it really does need to be marketed at Asian markets and filmed in Cantonese to be done right and I can't see that working on American network TV, nor as an American-produced blockbuster film. She-Hulk has all the trappings of a TV sitcom. Ghost Rider and Blade both deserve their own network where the two of them can cross over with each other. Preferably on cable where you don't have content restrictions. I feel like they're both stand alone enough to the point where they don't really fit on Netflix but at the same time would feel bowdlerized on ABC and don't fit Freeform's core demographic. Young Avengers, Avengers Academy or Champions would work best on Freeform once Cloak and Dagger gets canceled. Power Pack really works best on Disney Channel since it's drawing in a new demographic with young children. Finally, Thunderbolts has far too many characters for a film. It needs to be done on TV just to ensure that every character gets screen time.

Pretty much anything else is way too obscure. Even Guardians had the Jim Valentino and DnA runs and the Jim Starlin Infinity Watch series alongside the Warlock solo comics so it isn't like there wasn't tons of source material to draw from despite being obscure to general audiences. I don't feel like Marvel can go more obscure. Something like Sentry, Spectrum or Blue Marvel can be done with a supporting role but I really feel like big names are needed to sell leading roles.

 

[NealKenneth]

I don't think there's a "magic number" where we hit too many franchises...but I do think it's important that every franchise feel unique. Otheriwse what's the point?

With Asgard and the fantasy elements, Thor can keep going and going. Ant-Man could potentially continue indefinitely with the humor/comedy angle...Cap nails the spy type of film, so I'm not convinced BW, Hawkeye or Falcon would offer anything different from that.

Iron Man I feel has been totally absorbed into other films. Without a really good story, I don't see why he needs any more solo films at all. There's nothing about his solo films that make them stylistically different from an Avengers film.

Doctor Strange could continue for quite awhile with the magic angle, especially if they start to add more horror elements.

Captain Marvel and Black Panther both worry me just a little. I don't know if Black Panther will feel all that different from Cap, but then again, maybe Cap is being retired (or at least he's become like Iron Man where he's basically a supporting character.) Captain Marvel...I don't know how that's going to be different from something like either Guardians or Avengers. Hard to see the point right now.

My guess is that they will NOT go beyond three films a year. I don't think there is enough viable franchises for that, especially with four years between solo installments.

 

[Panacea]

I don't expect there to be any more Captain America, Iron Man or Thor movies after Ragnarok. I do think Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel will get trilogies though, assuming the latter two do well at the box office.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I don't expect there to be any more Captain America, Iron Man or Thor movies after Ragnarok. I do think Doctor Strange, Black Panther and Captain Marvel will get trilogies though, assuming the latter two do well at the box office.

Agree with this.

 

[moreorless]

I don't think there's a "magic number" where we hit too many franchises...but I do think it's important that every franchise feel unique. Otheriwse what's the point?

With Asgard and the fantasy elements, Thor can keep going and going. Ant-Man could potentially continue indefinitely with the humor/comedy angle...Cap nails the spy type of film, so I'm not convinced BW, Hawkeye or Falcon would offer anything different from that.

Iron Man I feel has been totally absorbed into other films. Without a really good story, I don't see why he needs any more solo films at all. There's nothing about his solo films that make them stylistically different from an Avengers film.

Doctor Strange could continue for quite awhile with the magic angle, especially if they start to add more horror elements.

Captain Marvel and Black Panther both worry me just a little. I don't know if Black Panther will feel all that different from Cap, but then again, maybe Cap is being retired (or at least he's become like Iron Man where he's basically a supporting character.) Captain Marvel...I don't know how that's going to be different from something like either Guardians or Avengers. Hard to see the point right now.

My guess is that they will NOT go beyond three films a year. I don't think there is enough viable franchises for that, especially with four years between solo installments.

I think you mention the key issue there Neal, Certain characters have been absorbed into the main on-going story of the Avengers/Cap films. I suspect from at least Winter Solider onwards Marvel has taken the view that these characters are left for this story so that drama can be built across it rather than potentially being defused by solo films.

Of the Avengers I think Thor is actually the most separate dramatically as he's obviously not involved in the Cap films and is arguably less important dramatically to the Avengers ones hence he can also run a solo franchise.

As I mentioned in the other thread I think that's a big reason why we haven't seen Black Widow, Hawk or and Hulk solo films(post Norton anyway). All of these or some combination of them could I think definitely support films but all of them have also had dramatic parts to plays in the wider story that exploit there unresolved backstories.

I think Marvels plan now and in the future is that the shortfall of solo films is made up by introducing new characters. Then when main story characters are killed off/retire these other characters will step in to fill in the big plot and more new characters are introduced, repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

[DrCosmic]

That cycle seems most solid.

I think at 2.5 movies a year, that's 7-8 franchises on three year cycles, or 10 on a 4 year cycle.

For Phase 3 That's:
Captain America
Dr. Strange
Guardians of the Galaxy
Spider-Man
Thor
Black Panther
Avengers
Ant-Man
Captain Marvel

That's 9 in 4 years, which is about right on the estimates. Could have been ten, but Avengers is doubling up for the big to do.

So what happens if this is the last of the Solo Cap films, since CW pretty clearly established that his supporting cast IS the Avengers. And if Thor Ragnarok isn't an ending to the Thor films, I don't know what would be.

That leaves room for two franchises while doing Black Panther, Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Guardians and Captain Marvel sequels. Those new franchises could be Fantastic Four and Scarlet Witch or they could be Hulk and Thunderbolts... or, heck, Black Widow and Radioactive Man. There's plenty options.

There was a time when I also questioned the sequel potential of things like Black Panther, but after seeing how the MCU has started spinning up great new villains-in-name-only I'm not even half worried. I also wondered about Black Widow or Captain Marvel differentiating themselves, but after hearing they want everyone to go cosmic, even though Guardians seems to have all the space faring covered, I'm like, hey, let's do it all.

 

[moreorless]

Two women in mayor roles in a Marvel film? how would we tell them apart.

If they want to take things in a more Cosmic direction even post Thanos I could see the potential for spinning off some of the more earthbound Avengers that aren't killed off/retired into more separate franchises rather than keeping them in the main plot. Hawk and Widow especially seem very well suited for that but I'm not sure I'd take solo move talk as definite proof the latter survives the Infinity War.

 

[Xeno]

No.

 

[NealKenneth]

Prediction time! We're going to see catreful curating of what ends up where as time goes on. All will be either reverted to or shared with the MCU by the early 2020s.

...

Film franchises: The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, and sporadic sequels for all existing series. These properties benefit more from a large budget than they do from ongoing episodes.

Netflix: Daredevil will air its fifth season around 2022. JJ, LC and IF will condense into a series called Heroes for Hire. Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Man-Thing will all have solo runs and all of these characters will crossover with the original street heroes in The Defenders, which will have a season ever two years or so. Basically reserved for the dark and gritty (a good home for a Wolverine solo series as well.)

Television: Learning from Gifted and Inhumans, Marvel will craft an X-Men television series. Special episodes will be in theaters on IMAX.

 

[Heretic]

Make whatever movies are needed to move the story forward. Don't make a trilogy just because so many fans have this bizarre requirement that a franchise last exactly 3 films. If Captain Marvel needs 5 films...great...if Ant Man needs 2....great.

I think that 3 movies per year will work fine for Marvel.

Personally, I probably would start waiting for the Netflix for some of the films if it hit 4 per year (I already wait for the Netflix of DC and X-Men films).