Transition from Returns to Forever

Kevin Roegele said:
There's no point just saying you prefer Begins, you need to say why you believe it's better than the previous films.

And, might I add, not resort to namecalling or pretending Michael Keaton was fat/out of shape/balding.... the usual stuff he says. It'll be hard for him.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
The thing is, you don't respect others' opinions. Or maybe, the only way you learned to express yours was to trounce others and act like you're someone superior. You don't just post your opinion, you go out of your way to be confrontational with someone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you.

And the day I believe you were joking is the day pigs fly. You know I got you dead-to-rights, so you change you story to claim it was supposed to be funny. I'll give you a hint: sarcastic humor doesn't translate to text.

It's one thing to dislike Burton's flicks. It's another to come here and insinuate that we're all a bunch of mindless sheep, that we're enjoying the wrong thing. Your opinion that BB is better is just that: an opinion.

Not , oviously you didnt get what i wanted to express. Dude,normally, i respect the other opinions EXCEPT when some ***ing ******* go and insult or post ofenses agaisnt me, acting like a child protecting his toy. Only show me when i atacked someone or their personal opinions without not provokations from the other part or when i wasnt joking.

And you are blind when you want, because i have seen many mind droids insulting people only for seeing burton sucks or keaton was wrong for batman. Only post that , and in less of three seconds, hello ******ed insults. But for some strange reason, you only see those type of things in the side against your opinion.

And sarcastic humor doesnt translate well to text? dude, you need to read more books.
 
Kevin Roegele said:
There's no point just saying you prefer Begins, you need to say why you believe it's better than the previous films.

That post that you quoted was a joke, i dont know if it was a good one or a bad one, i guess that it was a bad one because anyone didnt understand it, but it was a joke. And i have explained a lot of times why i think that begins was better than the rest of the other movies.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
And, might I add, not resort to namecalling or pretending Michael Keaton was fat/out of shape/balding.... the usual stuff he says. It'll be hard for him.

First, i didnt call keaton fat. But yes out of sharpe , short and bald, because he was short, half bald and out of sharpe when he did the movie. If you didnt see it its your problem.

And are you a relative of michael keaton? we are talking here about actors,, dont take it so serioulsy.
 
mister Lennon said:
Not , oviously you didnt get what i wanted to express. Dude,normally, i respect the other opinions EXCEPT when some ***ing ******* go and insult or post ofenses agaisnt me, acting like a child protecting his toy. Only show me when i atacked someone or their personal opinions without not provokations from the other part or when i wasnt joking.

And you are blind when you want, because i have seen many mind droids insulting people only for seeing burton sucks or keaton was wrong for batman. Only post that , and in less of three seconds, hello ******ed insults. But for some strange reason, you only see those type of things in the side against your opinion.

And sarcastic humor doesnt translate well to text? dude, you need to read more books.

Prime example: this discussion was going fine until you popped in and insinuated that "nothing ever changed" here and that Burton's stuff was "awful". You came into a thread that was going fine and posts "Burton sucks, Begins is better", only in more words. If that isn't trying to start *****, I don't know what is.

Wow, I seem to be getting on your nerves. Must be nice not to notice when you do something wrong, becuase this all happened because of your inflammatory comments toward Burton that came out of nowhere. You're the one with the selective memory.

You wouldn't hear a peep out of me if you had said why you disliked Burton's work instead of just saying "it sucks", which IS what you did.
 
mister Lennon said:
First, i didnt call keaton fat. But yes out of sharpe , short and bald, because he was short, half bald and out of sharpe when he did the movie. If you didnt see it its your problem.

And are you a relative of michael keaton? we are talking here about actors,, dont take it so serioulsy.

Out of shape generally insinuates fat. He was NOT out of shape, just not some sort of bodybuilder.

He wasn't short, but he was average height. I'll give you that one.

Half bald? No. That's just how he keeps his hair. Look at The Dream Team that came out the same year as B89. He has long hair.

I'm no relative of Keaton. Just a fan of his. But that doesn't matter, when somebody attacks him for things that aren't true, I set the record straight. If you were saying the same about Christian Bale, I'd pull this same act. Because it's incorrect.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
Out of shape generally insinuates fat. He was NOT out of shape, just not some sort of bodybuilder.

He wasn't short, but he was average height. I'll give you that one.

Half bald? No. That's just how he keeps his hair. Look at The Dream Team that came out the same year as B89. He has long hair.

I'm no relative of Keaton. Just a fan of his. But that doesn't matter, when somebody attacks him for things that aren't true, I set the record straight. If you were saying the same about Christian Bale, I'd pull this same act. Because it's incorrect.

When i said out of sharpe, i was trying to say not as batman is supposed to be, muscular and athletic.

Keaton is short, that is the real thing. See many of his movies and compares his height with many actors. shorter than jack nicholson, michael gough, kim bassinguer, christopher walken, robert whul, ect. For not talking about his another movies. Go and watch bettlejuise and see what he looks next to the another actors. Same with much about nothing movie.

He was wearing a wing in those movies. Go and watch clean and sorber and pafic heigths, half bald in those movies.

No problem with having heros and idols, i have mine too. But the problem is to go with it too far.
 
mister Lennon said:
When i said out of sharpe, i was trying to say not as batman is supposed to be, muscular and athletic.

Fair enough.

Keaton is short, that is the real thing. See many of his movies and compares his height with many actors. shorter than jack nicholson, michael gough, kim bassinguer, christopher walken, robert whul, ect. For not talking about his another movies. Go and watch bettlejuise and see what he looks next to the another actors. Same with much about nothing movie.

He's average height. Short is below average. 5'10" is average. Any taller, and he'd be considered well, tall. And you're wrong, he's not shorter than Nicholson or Basinger, they're all three the same height. Go and watch the film. I doubt he's shorter than the others you mentioned (with the exception being Christopher Walken), but I don't know off the top of my head to really argue about the rest of them.

He was wearing a wing in those movies. Go and watch clean and sorber and pafic heigths, half bald in those movies.

No, he wasn't. I've seen the two films you mention. I own all of his films. I am a Michael Keaton fan, I think I'd know. You obviously didn't like that I was right so you're going to claim that it had to have been a wig. The only film where we wears a wig is Beetlejuice. Hey smart guy, if he wore a wig in that movie.... why not in all of the others? And you wanna explain why in interviews at the time, he had the same hair from The Dream Team? So he was wearing the wig off-screen?

He's not bald, never has been. So quit trying to say he was. You're flat wrong on this one. Coupled with my more extensive knowledge of Keaton, my evidence and the fact that he's never shown a bald spot disprove your complaint.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
Fair enough.



He's average height. Short is below average. 5'10" is average. Any taller, and he'd be considered well, tall. And you're wrong, he's not shorter than Nicholson or Basinger, they're all three the same height. Go and watch the film. I doubt he's shorter than the others you mentioned (with the exception being Christopher Walken), but I don't know off the top of my head to really argue about the rest of them.



No, he wasn't. I've seen the two films you mention. I own all of his films. I am a Michael Keaton fan, I think I'd know. You obviously didn't like that I was right so you're going to claim that it had to have been a wig. The only film where we wears a wig is Beetlejuice. Hey smart guy, if he wore a wig in that movie.... why not in all of the others? And you wanna explain why in interviews at the time, he had the same hair from The Dream Team? So he was wearing the wig off-screen?

He's not bald, never has been. So quit trying to say he was. You're flat wrong on this one. Coupled with my more extensive knowledge of Keaton, my evidence and the fact that he's never shown a bald spot disprove your complaint.


Maybe you are righ about the hair issue. But in those movies that i said, and in movies like my life, he looks almost bald. Strange thing. But probably, you are right in this issue.

But in the heigt, no way that keaton is 5'10. Go and see batman, he is shorter than nicholson. he had three scenes with jack: chemical factory, vickie apartment and cathedral. In the three scenes , keaton was clearly shorter than nicholson, even in his batman suit. Looks what he looks near to kim bassinguer, same height or shorter than her. And see what he looks next to michael gough or robert whul, shorther than both. Walken was clearly taller than him, same with michael murphy who played the mayor in batman returns.

Now his other movies. He looked like a dwarf in bettlejuce next to alec baldwin and geena davies, and they arent 6'2. Now, much about nothing. He looked like a dwarf next to people like keneth branagh, enma thompson, denzel washington, robert sean leonard, richard bries, etc. Now clean and sorber, next to morgan freeman. Now pacific heigths , next to melanie grifith and mathew moddine. Now jackie brow, next to robert de niro and sam jackson. Now that movie next andy garcia. No way that he is 5'10. He is 5'7 or 5'8 as much.
 
mister Lennon said:
Maybe you are righ about the hair issue. But in those movies that i said, and in movies like my life, he looks almost bald. Strange thing. But probably, you are right in this issue.

Maybe? Wow. You just have no humility, do you?

But in the heigt, no way that keaton is 5'10. Go and see batman, he is shorter than nicholson. he had three scenes with jack: chemical factory, vickie apartment and cathedral. In the three scenes , keaton was clearly shorter than nicholson, even in his batman suit. Looks what he looks near to kim bassinguer, same height or shorter than her. And see what he looks next to michael gough or robert whul, shorther than both. Walken was clearly taller than him, same with michael murphy who played the mayor in batman returns.

Funny, I just looked at the film, and he, Nicholson (5'9.75") and Basinger (5'7") are about the same size. I don't say something unless I'm sure I know what I'm talking about, bud. He's much taller than Whul (5'7"), he's taller than Gough (5'9"). Walken (6') was taller, yes. And he never shared a scene with Michael Murphy (6'1").

Now his other movies. He looked like a dwarf in bettlejuce next to alec baldwin and geena davies, and they arent 6'2. Now, much about nothing. He looked like a dwarf next to people like keneth branagh, enma thompson, denzel washington, robert sean leonard, richard bries, etc. Now clean and sorber, next to morgan freeman. Now pacific heigths , next to melanie grifith and mathew moddine. Now jackie brow, next to robert de niro and sam jackson. Now that movie next andy garcia. No way that he is 5'10. He is 5'7 or 5'8 as much.

Sorry to break it to you, but news reports from 1989 report him at 5'10", just the same as every site on the internet. And yes, I have seen these news clips.

Half the people you listed there (I've already proven you wrong so I'm not going to go persion-to-person), he's the same height as, or taller. In Beetlejuice, he was intentionally hunching over, so you can't count that.

Once again, I've completely flattened your argument. But yes, I get it. He's short for Batman. I never denied that. But he isn't short, period. 5'10" is considered average height, ask anybody. Most men clock in about there. You just can't handle that he is 5'10", so you try to deny its validity.

But hey, I ain't trying to get you to accept Keaton. I don't care how you feel about him. Just realize the stuff you were saying about him was wrong.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
Maybe? Wow. You just have no humility, do you?



Funny, I just looked at the film, and he, Nicholson (5'9.75") and Basinger (5'7") are about the same size. I don't say something unless I'm sure I know what I'm talking about, bud. He's much taller than Whul (5'7"), he's taller than Gough (5'9"). Walken (6') was taller, yes. And he never shared a scene with Michael Murphy (6'1").



Sorry to break it to you, but news reports from 1989 report him at 5'10", just the same as every site on the internet. And yes, I have seen these news clips.

Half the people you listed there (I've already proven you wrong so I'm not going to go persion-to-person), he's the same height as, or taller. In Beetlejuice, he was intentionally hunching over, so you can't count that.

Once again, I've completely flattened your argument. But yes, I get it. He's short for Batman. I never denied that. But he isn't short, period. 5'10" is considered average height, ask anybody. Most men clock in about there. You just can't handle that he is 5'10", so you try to deny its validity.

But hey, I ain't trying to get you to accept Keaton. I don't care how you feel about him. Just realize the stuff you were saying about him was wrong.


First , stop that wildness,dude. You dont to post personal offenses to proove an argument. Dont be so over the top in this kind of discussion.

Second, those people are all taller than michael keaton. Michael keaton isnt 5'10, he is 5'8 as much. Lets se some pics:

Keaton in batman costume and jack nicholson:

http://www.dvdtown.com/functions/displayimage.php?id=3852

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.y...s/batman/_group_photos/jack_nicholson5-th.jpg

Sorry for the little last photo, but i didnt find something bigger. In those pics, Keaton is in batman costume, that supposedly, it add to him some extra height. If keaton is 5'10 as you claim, he should be 5'11 or 6 in that costume. And if you said that nicholson is 5'9, he should be clearly shorter than him specially with keaton in the suit, but still, surprise surprise, nicholson is still taller than keaton. So , you still believe in the 5'10 for keaton???

Some pics more of Keaton with some people:

Keaton and michael gough:
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films...s/batman_michael_keaton_alfred_the_bulter.jpg

Michael keaton and annette benning:
http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/vpage2005/vaviator_bening.jpg

Keaton and katie holmes:
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2004_First_Daughter/Thumb/004FDT_Katie_Holmes_107.jpg

Keaton and bob kane:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/00/Batman_Kane.jpg/300px-Batman_Kane.jpg

Keaton and tim burton and michelle pfeiffer:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/mcbeijer/dan/burton/pix/batret2.jpg

This guy couldnt be 5'10 in anyway.

Sorry for the boring theme about the heigths.
 
mister Lennon said:
First , stop that wildness,dude. You dont to post personal offenses to proove an argument. Dont be so over the top in this kind of discussion.

Second, those people are all taller than michael keaton. Michael keaton isnt 5'10, he is 5'8 as much. Lets se some pics:

Keaton in batman costume and jack nicholson:

http://www.dvdtown.com/functions/displayimage.php?id=3852

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.y...s/batman/_group_photos/jack_nicholson5-th.jpg

Sorry for the little last photo, but i didnt find something bigger. In those pics, Keaton is in batman costume, that supposedly, it add to him some extra height. If keaton is 5'10 as you claim, he should be 5'11 or 6 in that costume. And if you said that nicholson is 5'9, he should be clearly shorter than him specially with keaton in the suit, but still, surprise surprise, nicholson is still taller than keaton. So , you still believe in the 5'10 for keaton???

Some pics more of Keaton with some people:

Keaton and michael gough:
http://www.solarnavigator.net/films...s/batman_michael_keaton_alfred_the_bulter.jpg

Michael keaton and annette benning:
http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/vpage2005/vaviator_bening.jpg

Keaton and katie holmes:
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2004_First_Daughter/Thumb/004FDT_Katie_Holmes_107.jpg

Keaton and bob kane:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/00/Batman_Kane.jpg/300px-Batman_Kane.jpg

Keaton and tim burton and michelle pfeiffer:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/mcbeijer/dan/burton/pix/batret2.jpg

This guy couldnt be 5'10 in anyway.

Sorry for the boring theme about the heigths.



Don't you think that it's pretty much irrelevent? I've never come across a casual viewer (or indeed, anyone except a couple on these boards) who have said, "Keaton is too short for Batman."

It may not be exactly the same as in the comics, but does it actually have a detrimental effect in the movie? Are there any scenes that don't work because Keaton isn't tall enough? Does in actually make any difference whatsoever to the movie itself?

No, Of course it doesn't.
 
Kevin Roegele said:
Don't you think that it's pretty much irrelevent? I've never come across a casual viewer (or indeed, anyone except a couple on these boards) who have said, "Keaton is too short for Batman."

It may not be exactly the same as in the comics, but does it actually have a detrimental effect in the movie? Are there any scenes that don't work because Keaton isn't tall enough? Does in actually make any difference whatsoever to the movie itself?

No, Of course it doesn't.

The talk about the heigths its very boring and you are right, irrelevant. But i only want to clear that keaton isnt 5'10 as this guy claims, but whatever, its pretty irrelevant.

I have the opinion that if some people are making a movie about a certan knowed character, more if this character is an cultural icon as batman is, the person who plays the character should be the more similar possible to that character, it brings crediblity to the story and help the people to enter more in what the filmakers are telling us. Said that, that isnt the most imporant part or the definitive part, only one of them. If the guy looks the character buts acts wrong, it doesnt work. If the guy doesnts look the character and acts good , it doesnt work. I feel that keaton is more in the second group, but not at all. I mean, he doesnt look the character, i could forget that if his performance and take of the character would be amazing, but it wasnt for me.But most for Burton's concept of the character and the script that Keaton's fault.
 
mister Lennon said:
The talk about the heigths its very boring and you are right, irrelevant. But i only want to clear that keaton isnt 5'10 as this guy claims, but whatever, its pretty irrelevant.

Sorry, I just wanted to make that point, I know you weren't making an issue out of it.

mister Lennon said:
I have the opinion that if some people are making a movie about a certan knowed character, more if this character is an cultural icon as batman is, the person who plays the character should be the more similar possible to that character, it brings crediblity to the story and help the people to enter more in what the filmakers are telling us. Said that, that isnt the most imporant part or the definitive part, only one of them. If the guy looks the character buts acts wrong, it doesnt work. If the guy doesnts look the character and acts good , it doesnt work. I feel that keaton is more in the second group, but not at all. I mean, he doesnt look the character, i could forget that if his performance and take of the character would be amazing, but it wasnt for me.But most for Burton's concept of the character and the script that Keaton's fault.

I find it very interesting that there is so much debate over how much Keaton resembles the Bruce Wayne of the comics - but never any about how different the Batsuit is. I mean, in 1988, the comic batsuit was the grey fabric with blue cape and mask. In the movie, all it's black body armour. There is a bigger visual difference between the movie suit and the comic suit, than between the movie Bruce and the comic Bruce.
 
Well, also true. But sometimes in the comics, batman cape and mask and boots and gloves have been black. I remember the cult, for example. And what its curious, in some comics where batman was with his grey cape and mask, it was described by the character as "black".

True, the wayne from the first comics isnt as tall and muscular as he was after,but stil different from keaton. Maybe Alec Baldwin in his prime was the the actor who resembled more the more used version of Bruce Wayne in the comics.
 
mister Lennon said:
Well, also true. But sometimes in the comics, batman cape and mask and boots and gloves have been black. I remember the cult, for example. And what its curious, in some comics where batman was with his grey cape and mask, it was described by the character as "black".

Yeah, although it's still fabric stuff. The rigid bulletproof body armour was quite a departure. However, it works very well on film, and I think it's one of the very best ways to illustrate that comic and films are two different mediums, and each use different methods to achieve something.

mister Lennon said:
True, the wayne from the first comics isnt as tall and muscular as he was after,but stil different from keaton. Maybe Alec Baldwin in his prime was the the actor who resembled more the more used version of Bruce Wayne in the comics.

I would love to have seen Baldwin play Bruce Wayne and Batman, and he came very close in The Shadow.
 
mister Lennon said:
It said by the trollhunter himself, is something to realise.

I hunt trolls as opposite as being one of you. :meow:
 
Lennon, I brought researched evidence. You're estimating. Give it up. If this is a fight, I won. I proved you wrong. Keaton's 5'10". Grow up and move on. As much as you want to be right, as much as you want to believe Keaton was some kind of midget, wishing won't make it so. You're not right on this. I could show equally as many images of Keaton that don't make him look short.

But I won't. Like I said, I said my piece. I researched my point, and you got a bunch of pictures that support your theory, so it looks like you researched, but you didn't. Some of those pictures, foreshortening makes him look shorter. For a true comparison, you'd need him back-to-back with a person, not one where Keaton's in the background and the other person is in the foreground. Lest I remind you that the people you showed might have been as tall as Keaton, not the other way around? I provided statistics. Pictures can help apply-to and support a bias. Statistics can't.

Continue this argument if you wish, but I flattened yours. So I have no reason to continue. Any more words from you will be a waste of breath.
 
DocLathropBrown said:
Lennon, I brought researched evidence. You're estimating. Give it up. If this is a fight, I won. I proved you wrong. Keaton's 5'10". Grow up and move on. As much as you want to be right, as much as you want to believe Keaton was some kind of midget, wishing won't make it so. You're not right on this. I could show equally as many images of Keaton that don't make him look short.

But I won't. Like I said, I said my piece. I researched my point, and you got a bunch of pictures that support your theory, so it looks like you researched, but you didn't. Some of those pictures, foreshortening makes him look shorter. For a true comparison, you'd need him back-to-back with a person, not one where Keaton's in the background and the other person is in the foreground. Lest I remind you that the people you showed might have been as tall as Keaton, not the other way around? I provided statistics. Pictures can help apply-to and support a bias. Statistics can't.

Continue this argument if you wish, but I flattened yours. So I have no reason to continue. Any more words from you will be a waste of breath.

Fair enough for me if you dont want to follow this discussion. But dont try to look like the clear winner if this discussion. I only say that i posted my opinion, heigth conclussions and pictures, you only posted your opinion. End of story. Now, the people could do their own conclussions.
 
I just want to say one thing: F***k the size, people. It's not important - at least to me. Michael Keaton is 5' 10" but even if he would've been shorter - I don't f'ing care. I care that he was a GREAT Bruce Wayne / Batman, just like Christian Bale is GREAT as our fav hero. And I can tell you that you went OOOOOFFTOPIC. So, stop this silly and unimportant discussion. I don't care and I think other users here don't care about what you two have to say 'bout Michael Keaton's height, too...

Sorry if this sounds harsh, I didn't want to sound harsh...
 
i know doc..., relax... i read your last comment but you know it was to make sure it would def stop ^^

p.s.: be a little nicer next time, i haven't done anything to you...... kid ;):)
 
You guys....you're arguing about Micheal Keaton's height. Come on.
 

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