Ultimate Speedball

[Sloth7d]

speaking of assasins.
What happened to Ronin, she was introduced, then disappeared into nothingness.

Shes in japan taking care of the hydra and the hand.
I sense she will be one of those character we seldomly see.

 

[Darthphere]

Well Ultimates stands above the rest of the Ultimate line, because it doesn't just retread old ground, it creates its own stories.

Hey, if you say so, but Vol. 1 was pretty much just the Skrull invasion all over again.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

so... that happened in avengers? wow, what issues anybody? is it in an essential/ trade somewhere?

 

[Joker]

I found this on Wikipedia.


"According to the press release for the second set of Ultimate Marvel annuals, Speedball is set to make his Ultimate debut in Ultimate Spider-Man annual #2, the returning team of Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Brooks are working on the comic. The comic will also feature Daredevil, the Punisher and Ultimate Kangaroo."

This pisses me off.
Bendis is gonna ruin the origin, I know it.

chances are we wont even see the origin, Spidey will just crash one of his fights, probably with Ultimate Shocker cause he gets his ass handed to him by everyone. And it's not like Speedball didnt totally suck in the 616 till the start of Civil War anyway..

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, SPeedball isnt that complex of a character to write.

 

[MattXG]

Long story short, I feel its redundant and takes the focus away from titles that actually matter.

Well thats the point of the Ultimate line, easier to access. I actually think Ultimates is pretty good and enjoy what ive read of Millar's FF.

Sounds to me like you have a bit of envy of the Ultimate line. Perhaps you even appreciate some titles more than their 616 and that bothers you so you hate on them?

btw

"titles that actually matter" ?

1) How do they "take away" from those "titles that actually matter"?

2) How do those titles matter more than the Ultimate ones?

 

[Darthphere]

Sounds to me like you have a bit of envy of the Ultimate line. Perhaps you even appreciate some titles more than their 616 and that bothers you so you hate on them?

btw

"titles that actually matter" ?

1) How do they "take away" from those "titles that actually matter"?

2) How do those titles matter more than the Ultimate ones?

Yeah thats it, im envious of the Ultimate line, nailed it. Good job.

1)They do, because those titles get top talent top writer, top artists and all the advertising dollars.

2)IMO 616 matters, Ultimate doesnt, Ultimate just retreads on everything 616 does. Killing Gwen Stacy, been there done that and a lot better. Clone saga? Done it, though USM doesnt have to try hard to improve on that one. And the greater thing is in 5-10 years without a doubt Ultimate wont even exist.

In the future, really think before you make a post challenging my stand on things. As Ive said about a million times, I find a lot of the Ultimate titles enjoyable and even planning on taking a look at Vaughan's UXM, its just not my bag.

 

[Joker]

I dont understand the they dont matter argument...just because they dont effect a certain universe's continuity doesnt make them any less good...that's like saying Preacher sucked because it wasnt in continuity with the rest of the DC Universe

 

[Darthphere]

I dont understand the they dont matter argument...just because they dont effect a certain universe's continuity doesnt make them any less good...that's like saying Preacher sucked because it wasnt in continuity with the rest of the DC Universe

*sigh* Tell me Joker, whats the purpose behind the Ultimate line, really, what was the whole marketing ploy? A whole new universe thats easily accessible to new readers and where classic marvel adventures are re-told for a newer generation. In essence its a re-hash of everything 616. Yes, I also realize there are a lot of original stories, the Crossover arc on UFF is ****ing fanstastic. Ultimates is good Bruckheimer like summer movie stuff, with a touch of actual depthness and Freddie Prinze Jr. IMO notice it ill bold it, IMO 616 was first, it matters, because if 616 never existed, Ultimate would never have existed. Same with All-Star at DC IMO, it doesnt matter what matters is the DCU.


Take it for what you will, I dont have to like the Ultimate universe, and those are my reasons, take em or leave em.

 

[MattXG]

Yeah thats it, im envious of the Ultimate line, nailed it. Good job.

1)They do, because those titles get top talent top writer, top artists and all the advertising dollars.

Have you been under a rock?

How could you miss freaking Civil War? Hell, I saw Joey Q on freaking The Colbert Report talking about it. It was also the most important talking point for Marvel at Comic-con. They didn't even have anything really dedicated to Ultimate. Why? Because Ultimate is so strong on its own. It doesn't even need it.

Seems to me as a Spider-Man fan, Marvel has been throwing "Mega-Crossover- Events" and " Shock and life-shattering-power-changing awe" for two years straight trying to draw readers back to the 616 with little stunts...like unmasking..

Meanwhile, USM was able to keep pace with the title in sales despite the fact that USM hasn't really done much for four or five arcs...Now that a milestone arc has arisen again though, I'd imagine sales will climb again.

Don't even dare try to compare Ultimates to New Avengers. Ultimates eats that 616 title up and spits it out...

Ultimate FF is rocking on, too.

BTW, in case you weren't aware, most of the new/young readers are getting sucked into the easy to access and more modern Ultimate Universe. So in 5 - 10 years, 616 will probably be in the bind.

 

[Darthphere]

Have you been under a rock?

How could you miss freaking Civil War? Hell, I saw Joey Q on freaking The Colbert Report talking about it. It was also the most important talking point for Marvel at Comic-con. They didn't even have anything really dedicated to Ultimate. Why? Because Ultimate is so strong on its own. It doesn't even need it.

Seems to me as a Spider-Man fan, Marvel has been throwing "Mega-Crossover- Events" and " Shock and life-shattering-power-changing awe" for two years straight trying to draw readers back to the 616 with little stunts...like unmasking..

Meanwhile, USM was able to keep pace with the title in sales despite the fact that USM hasn't really done much for four or five arcs...Now that a milestone arc has arisen again though, I'd imagine sales will climb again.

Don't even dare try to compare Ultimates to New Avengers. Ultimates eats that 616 title up and spits it out...

Ultimate FF is rocking on, too.

BTW, in case you weren't aware, most of the new/young readers are getting sucked into the easy to access and more modern Ultimate Universe. So in 5 - 10 years, 616 will probably be in the bind.

Essentially, except for the first comment, which yes I agree with and no, I havent been living under a rock you really havent said anything contradictory to what ive said. I was just wondering if you had some point among all of that.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

^MattXG. um...no. ultimate titles are reimaginings. when they have to fly on their own you'll see them make the same mistakes 616 has. also there are plenty of criticisms that can be thrown at the ultimate lines. and if ultimates kicks 616's ass how come the avengers are at the centre of marvel's biggest event, theyre getting a second book, ultimates is more of a set of miniseries than ongoings, and ultimates is not cared about enough to make sure it comes out on time. hardly evidence that the ultimate universe is going to "overtake" the 616 anytime soon...

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, that was pretty ridiculous, since all the 616 titles outsell their Ultimate counterparts. I really fear for 616.


And no, this isnt one of those sales dont equal quality type arguments.

 

[MattXG]

^MattXG. um...no. ultimate titles are reimaginings. when they have to fly on their own you'll see them make the same mistakes 616 has. also there are plenty of criticisms that can be thrown at the ultimate lines. and if ultimates kicks 616's ass how come the avengers are at the centre of marvel's biggest event, theyre getting a second book, ultimates is more of a set of miniseries than ongoings, and ultimates is not cared about enough to make sure it comes out on time. hardly evidence that the ultimate universe is going to "overtake" the 616 anytime soon...

Let me ask, you and Darthwhatever, two things...


How old are you guys and how long have you been collecting comic books?

They don't care about the Ultimates? lol. I think you have that VERY much ass backwards. I think they care about the Ultimates so much they know it has to be on a whole other level as far as acceptable quality. Hell, even that Ultimate hater, Darthwhatever compared the book to a high quality summer blockbuster because of the quality of the book. Ultimates is like the flagship of the Ultimate line now...

 

[MyPokerShirt]

ok, so it was a harsh criticism. it clearly is cared about and i DO prefer it to avengers but i think 616 will always be above ultimates in Marvel's eyes and 616 will thrive for a lot longer than ultimates even exists. i mean, cmon, samuel l jackson is nick fury. how long before a kid has no idea who that is?? 10- 15 years?less? avengers is timeless

(im almost 20. half my life, more or less, i've collected. whhhhhy?relevance?)

 

[Darthphere]

Let me ask, you and Darthwhatever, two things...


How old are you guys and how long have you been collecting comic books?

They don't care about the Ultimates? lol. I think you have that VERY much ass backwards. I think they care about the Ultimates so much they know it has to be on a whole other level as far as acceptable quality. Hell, even that Ultimate hater, Darthwhatever compared the book to a high quality summer blockbuster because of the quality of the book. Ultimates is like the flagship of the Ultimate line now...

Ummm MattFU, look here what it comes down to. I like what I like. But im not blind to quality. I know theres quality in the Ultimate books, but theyre not my bag. You sound really stupid when you say things like the Ultimate Universe is going to take over 616 in 5-10 years, thats the most ignorant thing ive heard in a while. As for the rest, at this point youre just sounding like a whiny ***** who cant grasp the fact that people dont like the UU. So please, when you wanna debate like a rational adult, give me a PM.

Have a nice day.

 

[Speedball]

Yeah, SPeedball isnt that complex of a character to write.

Thing is, he could be made into a complex character, if given the time and effort.

 

[Darthphere]

Thing is, he could be made into a complex character, if given the time and effort.

I agree with that. But I wouldnt trust Bendis to do that, but hey hes surprised me in the past.

 

[MattXG]

(im almost 20. half my life, more or less, i've collected. whhhhhy?relevance?)

You are the old guard. I'm the new guard. You've been around the 616, you are completely submerged. You caught things like the Clone Saga and Venom when they first happened.

Now though, for new readers, many find it too much work to track down these old titles and read them because they are sort of out dated on both an artistic and time period levels. You may be able to appreciate alot of the 616 because you've been in it for about half the time.

I have no probelm saying I've only been in comics for about 4 years now. Spider-Man 1 (movie) is what got me into them. However, when I found out what Marvel had done to Spider-Man in the last decade and a half I was like hell no. I'm not reading that. Also, I don't want to read 40 year old comics in black and white. But when I picked up Ultimate Spider-Man and saw that beautiful colorful artwork and a modern retelling. I could get the story from pretty much the start. And what I was missing was already available in handy TPBs. Great. Sold. I don't have to bother hearing about how Gwen slept with GG and how Eddie Brock is dying from cancer.

I see it and hear it more and more on these boards... "616 is too hard to get into, I'm going Ultimate." You guys just don't understand. I do.

 

[Darthphere]

I see it and hear it more and more on these boards... "616 is too hard to get into, I'm going Ultimate." You guys just don't understand. I do.

I fully understand that, but that doesnt make Ultimate better than 616, it just suits your taste more. Like 616 suits mine more.

 

[MattXG]

Ummm MattFU... As for the rest, at this point youre just sounding like a whiny ***** who cant grasp the fact that people dont like the UU. So please, when you wanna debate like a rational adult, give me a PM.

Have a nice day.

Time out for you, kiddo.


The internet is for big boys...

 

[Darthphere]

Time out for you, kiddo.


The internet is for big boys...

Im big where it counts.......

 

[MattXG]

I fully understand that, but that doesnt make Ultimate better than 616, it just suits your taste more. Like 616 suits mine more.

Also, we are the younger guard. Young blood means longer life...

1+1...my friend...

 

[Darthphere]

Also, we are the younger guard. Young blood means longer life...

1+1...my friend...

Not necessarily, I could live to be 120, you could die next week in a horrific bus crash.

 

[Sentry2005]

You are the old guard. I'm the new guard. You've been around the 616, you are completely submerged. You caught things like the Clone Saga and Venom when they first happened.

Now though, for new readers, many find it too much work to track down these old titles and read them because they are sort of out dated on both an artistic and time period levels. You may be able to appreciate alot of the 616 because you've been in it for about half the time.

I have no probelm saying I've only been in comics for about 4 years now. Spider-Man 1 (movie) is what got me into them. However, when I found out what Marvel had done to Spider-Man in the last decade and a half I was like hell no. I'm not reading that. Also, I don't want to read 40 year old comics in black and white. But when I picked up Ultimate Spider-Man and saw that beautiful colorful artwork and a modern retelling. I could get the story from pretty much the start. And what I was missing was already available in handy TPBs. Great. Sold. I don't have to both hearing about how Gwen slept with GG and how Eddie Brock is dying from cancer.

I see it and hear it more and more on these boards... "616 is too hard to get into, I'm going Ultimate." You guys just don't understand. I do.

Actually, we've already said that in this thread. Thats the point of the Ultimate Line. It's why i'm reading Fantastic Four in Ultimate format.

This of course means that i'm stuck with the LAMEST incarnation of Doom, and the thing is, like Darthphere (lookie... i rememberd someone i'm debating with's name ) said, The ultimate line is essentially a summer blockbuster approach to story telling; it is enjoyable, but its no where near as deep as some of the stories you can find in 616.

616 Daredevil is the perfect example of a story telling master class, Ultimate Spider-Man is not.