Unpopular Opinion: BOTH of Joss Whedon's Avengers movies are overrated

[MadVillainy]

I agree that the first Avengers is overrated. It's not bad at all, but i dont think it's great. I definitely put it up in the top 5 superhero movies, neither in my favorites or what I think is the best. If it's in the top 10 it's near the bottom half to me

I find AoU to be really underrated. Ive seen it 3 or 4 times and I still think it's really good and I dont necessarily get the problems people have with it

I love how it has become "cool" to hate on The Avengers.

Please

 

[spider-neil]

I find AoU to be really underrated. Ive seen it 3 or 4 times and I still think it's really good and I dont necessarily get the problems people have with it

AoU had too many plot lines and gets pretty confusing at times.
Compared to CW which has as many characters as AoU but pretty much has one narrative path through the whole movie.

 

[DrCosmic]

FYI, he actually said that Loki lacked conviction.

Good eye, thanks.

Golden post DrCosmic.

Thank you! I love it when a post comes together.

That exact observation is why I see the first Avengers as a huge accomplishment. It is definitely NOT EASY to have six protagonists in one movie and give them all superheroic things to do, and make the movie fun to watch. If it was easy, more movies would be doing it.

The thing that always bothered me about Whedon's Avengers films though, is that even though everyone has their moment, it always felt convenient to the plot. Like, they were making decisions and doing things because the plot required them to do so, not because of genuine character motivations. And don't get me started on the excuses for all the superheroes to physically fight each other too. (I know, Whedon probably had a quota to fill, but it all felt VERY convenient for the plot!)

The awesome thing about the future and progress is that things can be done better - everyone's character motivations in Civil War felt genuine to me. It basically took the parts of the Avengers movies that bugged me and fixed them. Everyone in CW felt real, not just a plot contrivance. And they were fighting each other again, but for real, and you could find a compelling reason for every character to be doing so.

So are Whedon's Avengers overrated? I dunno, I think the first one is definitely an achievement, but I could immediately see ways it could be better. And Civil War improved on the parts that bugged me, so bring on the Infinity War films, I say!

I can feel that. There's something that bugged me about Civil War that I can't quite put my hands on. It definitely had better parts, like with the character motivations as you said, but there was something missing for me...

Ooh, the Incredibles! Great choice. Best Fantastic Four movie I've seen yet!

Big Hero Six was also really great, as long as we're touching on animated superhero movies.

I tend to pick my favorites based on re-watchability. I can pop in Guardians of the Galaxy or Big Hero 6 or Deadpool at any time, and it's as good as the first time.

I literally can't watch any of the Nolan Bat-films again. I've tried. They are just boring to me, stifling under the weight of their own pretention. I tried to rewatch Age of Ultron again recently, hoping that it was just a bad day that made me dislike it in the theater, but it still disappoints me, while I can rewatch the first Avengers movie, or the Captain America movies, or the first two Iron Man movies, over and over. Others, not so much. The last two Amazing Spider-Man movies fell flat for me, and I haven't really liked the Thor movies all that much, which is a huge disappointment for me, since I like the comic book character of Thor so much more than Iron Man or Captain America.

And that's why I'd rather watch Green Lantern or the first Fantastic Four movie (the one with Chris Evans, Jessica Alba, Ben Chikilis and that other dude) again than Age of Ultron or Dawn of Justice. One's a fun movie. The others are not, for me.

I'm actually not entirely sure where I stand on Civil War. I like it more than Age of Ultron, by far, and there's lots of individual beats that I love, but I still don't love the entire movie the way I loved Avengers or Winter Soldier, as a total product. Perhaps that will change with repeated viewings. Some movies grow on me, as I find more to love.

Lol, incredibles is definitely the best FF movie ever, and those movies you mentioned are really really rewatchable, and that's a cool way to pick your top 10. And while I can't say I'd rewatch TDK, I might have to just find something else to do when GL or FF come on, unless I have someone to watch them ironically with. I do rewatch parts of AoU, but I suspect that will stop once Civil War comes out on video.

But I think you really hit on what bothers me about CW, I think the whole movie fails as a Captain America movie, which is understandable, because it's really not. It starts as a Cap movie with Avengers adjacent, and then it slowly grows into an Avengers film and it tries to go back to Cap at the end, and it's not really satisfying for me, like... at all. I still like the movie a lot, because all of the parts of it are just so awesome. Like, literally any scene from the film just sings on its own.

I also think it's interesting that, again, you need the TV sensibilities in order to make Avengers work via the Russos. I suspect Infinity War 1 & 2 (or whatever they'll be called) are going to just rock all of the socks.

 

[spider-neil]

I also think it's interesting that, again, you need the TV sensibilities in order to make Avengers work via the Russos. I suspect Infinity War 1 & 2 (or whatever they'll be called) are going to just rock all of the socks.

I'm nervous for IW. I have no idea how the Russo's made CW work with 10 heroes and even then it was skirting the line of having too much. IW may have way more heroes than that (Thor, Hulk, Guardians and possibly more). The Russos have become adapt at spinning lots of plates, it could all come crashing down around their ears.

What I would give to get an early preview of the script for IW.

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm nervous for IW. I have no idea how the Russo's made CW work with 10 heroes and even then it was skirting the line of having too much. IW may have way more heroes than that (Thor, Hulk, Guardians and possibly more). The Russos have become adapt at spinning lots of plates, it could all come crashing down around their ears.

What I would give to get an early preview of the script for IW.

I think a little skepticism is always a good thing. No need to be all googly eyed over a film that hasn't even been written yet.

I think I give them the benefit of the doubt on the number of characters because of how brilliantly they handled Arrested Development and Community, both with large casts. I also give them extra credit on Civil War for handling because they managed the 10+ characters to be fleshed out, connected, balanced, interesting and relevant all within in the middle hour of the 2 1/2 hour runtime. The beginning and the end of the film really weren't about those 10+ characters. I imagine with room to bring these characters into the conclusion of a film (whereas this film only allowed 4-5 charries in climax) will make for even more awesomeness.

Another thing that these two are brilliant at is bringing in minor characters using them and then recycling them back into the ether. ("Annyong!") And then again they're great at bringing humanity to ridiculous characters. They've shown me they can translate those skills to these larger than life guys, and so I'm just 100% down right now.

And even if they can't pull it off... I'll still love Arrested Development and Community just as much.