The Dark Knight * UPDATE - Academy Will Consider TDK Score

[Merkel]

Alan Menken has won 8 oscars, 4 for best song and 4 for best score. Although I do agree he did not deserve most of the best score awards, the best score wins were all totally justified. Menken is an amazing song writer.

And Goldsmith only lost one oscar to Menken. In 1992, Basic Instinct lost to Aladdin, in what I agree was a quite undeserved win.

 

[byte19]

see Anita! i was right bout somethin!! thanks Merkel!

but to say Goldenthal is better than Hans? idk bout that, though alien3 was phenomenal, you have heard those Bat-Scores right? to say Hans' repetitive, i partly agree, after all, we heard more of him in action flicks! but that's what the directors want. what about the other music? pacific heights, young and younger, nine months, the holiday?
and he uses ghost writers, so? who doesn't? plus, most of Hans' people, (I call the the barbarian horde) Jablonsky and Badelt aren't the only ones successful, Harry Gregson-Williams, his bro. Rupert, Ramin Djawadi, John Powell, Geoff Zanelli, Mark Mancia, Trevor Rabin (and he's from Yes and says he don't work for Hans!!) even Gary Chang who hasn't scored his own music since Sniper.
the reason why these guys all sound the same? they share Hans' square block studio facility! using his most used synths and sound mods, what you expect?
I ain't trying to change anyone's minds, but rival to JW's own 40 years in the business, Hans' 30+ years have to count for something!

 

[Anita18]

And Goldsmith only lost one oscar to Menken. In 1992, Basic Instinct lost to Aladdin, in what I agree was a quite undeserved win.

I was speaking hypothetically.

And while I wouldn't call Hans a "maestro," he definitely loves what he does and he loves the collaboration work.

 

[Merkel]

see Anita! i was right bout somethin!! thanks Merkel!

but to say Goldenthal is better than Hans? idk bout that, though alien3 was phenomenal, you have heard those Bat-Scores right? to say Hans' repetitive, i partly agree, after all, we heard more of him in action flicks! but that's what the directors want. what about the other music? pacific heights, young and younger, nine months, the holiday?
and he uses ghost writers, so? who doesn't? plus, most of Hans' people, (I call the the barbarian horde) Jablonsky and Badelt aren't the only ones successful, Harry Gregson-Williams, his bro. Rupert, Ramin Djawadi, John Powell, Geoff Zanelli, Mark Mancia, Trevor Rabin (and he's from Yes and says he don't work for Hans!!) even Gary Chang who hasn't scored his own music since Sniper.
the reason why these guys all sound the same? they share Hans' square block studio facility! using his most used synths and sound mods, what you expect?
I ain't trying to change anyone's minds, but rival to JW's own 40 years in the business, Hans' 30+ years have to count for something!

Thank you for the interesting reply and subject.

I my view, Elliot Goldenthal is a full fledged orchestral composer (not only of film scores, his opera "Grendel" is stunning"), who has an instantly recognizable musical voice, is a brilliant orchestration and writes the most gorgeous piano cues (even for Batman Forever). His Batman scores are campy and full of enthusiasm (spot on perfect for the movie), although given their subject matter, they are hardly the ideal batman scores. But just listen to his Batman Forever score (or Titus, Michael Collins, Interview with the Vampire) and the array of musical styles he throws semalessly at you is nothing short of masterful. John Williams himself his quite a Goldenthal fan (he was at the premiere of Grendel).

I do think Zimmer has written some very interesting scores and his most interesting work usually comes from his dramatic efforts (Thin Red Line, Hannibal, The Da Vinci Code, As Good as it Gets), where as his action writing is bound to sound repetitive and overblown. The fact most of his collaborators write action music in the exact same vein doesn't help either (although Powell and Gregson-Williams have been able to find, at points, their own voice). Zimmer is, at heart, a pop composer who happens to write for orchestra (or samples, whichever the case). And his orchestral music has a undeniable pop sensibility for the most part (not that there's anything wrong with it).

That said, I still believe Dark Knight is one of his most interesting works and I wouldn't shock me at all if it were nominated. At points it even works more as sound design than music per se, but it's effect on the movie is tremendous, and that is one the main cryteria (not the only one, though) for Oscar consideration.

I can give a blatant example of my main beef with Zimmer: do you know the piece called "Jack Sparrow" from the second Pirates of the Caribbean movie? It' starts with this fun, quirky little theme on the cello, it even has a priceless cello duet. It's pure Jack Sparrow, it's a fantastic melody but then what happens? Zimmer aplies his wall of sound to this great little theme and it becomes an overblown, obnoxious power anthem, stripping the theme completely of its unique qualities that I praised. Sometimes he is just misguided, I guess. I'm glad that was not the case with The Dark Knight

 

[mclay18]

Not all composers have ghostwriters. Williams almost never has any ghostwriters (I think there were a few on ROTJ but none on any other scores), Goldsmith has had a few but he mainly wrote by himself. Goldenthal has NO ghostwriters -- all that amazing work in his scores is by his pen and not by someone else.

As for Powell, his work is a breath of fresh air compared the rut Zimmer's been in. His work on Happy Feet (the score, not the songs) is downright beautiful and hardly any synths or electronics, and his superhero scores do have a memorable orchestral theme. As for Gregson-Williams, he does better when he's scoring animated or fantasy films -- anything else he does is hit or miss.

One film score reviewer wished that Goldenthal would've been given the chance to score the Nolan Bat-films as opposed to Schumacher's campfests. That would've been an exciting prospect indeed.

 

[Merkel]

Indeed. One just has to listen to his scores to Heat (and even Alien 3) to realize how amazing prospect that could be. I love Goldenthal's work.

 

[byte19]

oh guys don't get me wrong, i have both Interview and Alien3 gorgeous scores, but i listen to his Bat-Scores by themselves and almost never watch the movie with it. Frieda's score? deserved the win definitely! but call me simple, i love Hans' work because i can play most of his work! but a 37 year lover of music, i love everything!
but i have to agree with you on Sparrow. that could have been a suite for concert only, not for the cd unless that 4 disc box used it like he did Marry Me, the best in my opinion.

but everyone has their favorites, and no way am i gonna rip on composers they like cause i don't want them ripping on mine.

btw; John Carpenter is GOD!!!

 

[[A]]

Alert: The Academy reverses itself on "Dark Knight" score

My sources say the Motion Picture Academy has reversed its decision to disqualify the score for "The Dark Knight." Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, who collaborated on the music, will now be able to compete in the best original score category. The Academy had ruled the score ineligible last month, saying there were too many composers--five, in all--listed on the music cue sheet. I can't get the Academy's executive director Bruce Davis on the phone, but I've seen an Academy release saying its music branch executive committee voted to change the decision last Friday. When Davis and I spoke earlier last week, he was still defending the decision, saying that the Academy's music branch "sees this as an award, like cinematography or directing, where you want to award a single creator. This isn't like visual effects. Except for extraordinary circumstances, it's an award that should go to one person."

If the Academy has caved in, this should be a sweet victory for Zimmer and Howard, who were also disqualified in 2005 for their previous collaboration on "Batman Begins." They are both seven-time nominees, Zimmer having won best original score for "The Lion King."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/2008/12/alert-the-acade.html

 

[Cancer4TheCure]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/2008/12/alert-the-acade.html

I really want to hope this means a win. I am in love with this score.

 

[[A]]

It's a great one--of my top fave scores ever

 

[Mister J]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/the_big_picture/2008/12/alert-the-acade.html

Excellent. [/Burns]

 

[Franklin Richards]

The Academy is a joke. Whatever...

It is a joke and so are their rules for qualifications. The whole organization is disgustingly political. It makes me wonder whether or not their is some conspiracy against TDK. The Academy will ground them on stupid technicalities because they don't want a "superhero" film winning big oscar awards.

Grrrrrrrrr......

This just shows how much jackass's the academy really are.

Why is anyone surprised/pissed about this? They had had absolutely no chance any way.

I don't give two craps in a row that TDK (or any other movie I like) is nominated or not to this razzle-dazzly vacuous award.

And then again they ignore true genius of filmmaking and give the statue to Ron Howard. My despise for this award is anything but blind.

How do ya like the Academy now?

 

[General Vulcun]

That doesn't make sense. The award should just go to one person? It should go to the team that put together the best score, whether it be one or five. Quality is quality, and the creators should be rewarded.

 

[Boom]

When Davis and I spoke earlier last week, he was still defending the decision, saying that the Academy's music branch "sees this as an award, like cinematography or directing, where you want to award a single creator.

Tell that to the Coen Brothers.

 

[Nirvana]

Well, considered me wrong. I thought the Academy would never nominate this because of the more than one Composer rule, but this is definitely cool that they're reconsidering it. Lawl, it's good to be wrong.

 

[Fanticon]

so glad this is back in the running.

 

[[A]]

I was just gonna ask a mod to update the title