Villains that should reform

[The Overlord]

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Maybe he just can't. Maybe the process to make his adhesives household usable would be too expensive to be practical. I'm not saying I can prove he can't, but you haven't proved that he can. It's entirely speculative.

But also you can't prove he couldn't do that. Your telling me in universe where seeming regular people can invented sci fi level tech on their own, trapster couldn't make his glue household friendly? I find that hard to believe

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I have never heard of Gael before in my life.

Not surprising, he is not very well known and hasn't appeared in a whole lot of issues, he's still more interesting than Trapster. how does Trapster using poisons and bombs set him apart from anyone else? A regular hitman can use poisons and bombs, what does he bring to the table that others don't?



Not really, no. It depends on the situation.

For offing business men I would go with sniper rather than a guy with a purple jumpsuit, for fighting super heroes, I would hire guys with actual super powers, not a guy with a glue gun.

This is th suit I was thinking of:

Very dark purple jacket with gloves and a backpack. Not overly showy.


The cops would notice that guy and mile and away and shoot him, he isn't agile or anything, he should wear a costume that would allow him to be noticed at all.


Alright then.

It is in canon that he's a sniveling whiner, so why do you keep on saying he isn't?


Making him a threat doesn't make him a better character. And you can't say that self esteem issues doesn't give him depth because simply saying self esteem issues doesn't paint a picture of how his character arc would be exicuted. You'd have to see it in action to see if there'd be depth to it. There's no depth in making him more of a threat. And, like I said, he evolved from a guy with a glue gun to a chemical weapons expert a while ago. That makes him plenty of a threat if the writers just actually try to do something good with him.

You haven't answered the big question, why does he have self esteem problems? If he grew up in a poor area, how do he become a chemist with enough resources to create his adhesives? Your self esteem thing is vague and ill definded. ELots of people have self esteem problems but you haven't explained what made Pete's self esteem issues lead him to put a on purple jump suit and get gang raped in the Ryker Island prison. Besides alomst every villain has a temper problem (from Electro to Rhino to Doc Ock) what amkes his so speciial? I see alot more illtempered villains then I do calm and cool ones. Maybe if you exapnded this idea, I would buy it, but now its vague and illdefined and needs alot of work.

 

[The Question]

But also you can't prove he couldn't do that. Your telling me in universe where seeming regular people can invented sci fi level tech on their own, trapster couldn't make his glue household friendly? I find that hard to believe

And I find that rather flimsy logic. If a writer says that he was simply unable to make the adhesives he uses household friendly, then I think that would be perfectly acceptible.

Not surprising, he is not very well known and hasn't appeared in a whole lot of issues, he's still more interesting than Trapster.

How so?

how does Trapster using poisons and bombs set him apart from anyone else? A regular hitman can use poisons and bombs, what does he bring to the table that others don't?

Because he has a highly well learned knowledge of chemistry, making him a good go-to guy when you need something blown up. I'm not trying to say he's the greatest thug for hire on the planet, but I am saying that he could be written as rather compitent if the writers actually thought of it.

For offing business men I would go with sniper rather than a guy with a purple jumpsuit,

Again, a sniper doesn't always work. There are situations where a sniper would be your best bet, but there are others where a more hands on aproach is required.

for fighting super heroes, I would hire guys with actual super powers, not a guy with a glue gun.

I'd guess that super powered mercenaries are rather expensive in the MU. And, like I said, The Trapster is usually, thse days, written as a chemical weapons expernt, not simply an adhesives expert.

The cops would notice that guy and mile and away and shoot him, he isn't agile or anything, he should wear a costume that would allow him to be noticed at all.

The only thing that especially draws atention to him is the mask. Ditch that, and it's just a coat, a pair of pants, work gloves, and a backpack.

It is in canon that he's a sniveling whiner, so why do you keep on saying he isn't?

Because I never heard of that incident until just now, maybe?

You haven't answered the big question, why does he have self esteem problems? If he grew up in a poor area, how do he become a chemist with enough resources to create his adhesives?

Like I said, it was never stated that he invented his initial chemicals. He may have simply weaponized pre-existing ones. As he got more money from thefts, he could afford to go more high tech.

Your self esteem thing is vague and ill definded.

I suppose a bit. But I haven't had time to think about it too much.

ELots of people have self esteem problems

Yes. And lots of people have many other issues that lead a small number of them to become criminals. It depends on the person.

but you haven't explained what made Pete's self esteem issues lead him to put a on purple jump suit and get gang raped in the Ryker Island prison.

When did he ever get gang raped?

Besides alomst every villain has a temper problem (from Electro to Rhino to Doc Ock) what amkes his so speciial?

That's not true at all. Doc Ock doesn't have anger management issues. He's just psychotic.

I see alot more illtempered villains then I do calm and cool ones. Maybe if you exapnded this idea, I would buy it, but now its vague and illdefined and needs alot of work.

It's not as bad as you say it is. Like I said, I haven't given too much thought into his backstory as of yet. I've started the building blocks and I'm working from there. You shouldn't just shoot down my idea when it isn;t entirely complete.

 

[Dread]

There are a ton of B-List villains that could be used, frankly none of the Thunderbolts villains had personalities beyond generic criminals, but others: Mr. Hyde, Controller, King Cobra, the Ghost, Living Laser, Bushwacker, Count Nefaria and a ton of other B list villains are interesting and have motives and easily take the place of any reformed villains. Who said anything about being an anti hero, why can't someone like Stilt-Man, who is a bad criminal, has no motive and gets beaten often, become a civilian, instead of being a punching bag all the time. besides the only reason we haven't seen a good new MoE is laziness, its not the Thunderbolts fault, exactly why do the thunderbolts prevent another threatening MoE from forming?

Mr. Hyde has become something akin to Rhino and the Wrecking Crew; trucked out when they need a "generic action sequence" for any team or hero and instantly is defeated, usually without much hassle (save for the Young Avengers). He's not been as overused lately as Rhino or the Wrecking Crew, but pretty close. And hey, weren't the Wrecking Crew, along with half the Enforcers and a great deal of C listers, recruited under Zemo's Thunderbolts?

Even the concept of entrusting Zemo with anything regarding national security is ludicrious at best. In the real world, you could lose your job, your friends, your contacts, everything if it got out that you were, say, the child of an unrepetant Nazi era criminal. You'd never been in a position to create a gov't task force. No one would trust it. I swear, Marvel goes on and on about how brilliantly clever the SHRA is, but they have P.R. nightmares up the wazoo. Who the hell would rather be saved by Venom or ex-Nazi's or Green Goblin than an unregistered hero like, say, Aegis? Why keep evoking the images of Sentinals if you want to spread mutant tolerance; it would be like dressing peacekeepers as Klansmen and telling them to keep African Americans safe. But that's a problem with CIVIL WAR, in that it's not a story geared towards the natural strengths of characters; it's a story that warps characters to act however the story demands to make it work. In Ultimate, that would be okay. In a 40+ year old 616, it doesn't as well.

Controller last showed up in SPIDER-MAN BREAKOUT and has done nada since. King Cobra provided fodder for Toxin recently. The Ghost recently tried to kill Iron Man in some mini no one read. Count Nefaria last showed up in JLA/AVENGERS of all places. Living Laser, Bushwacker...lord knows where they have been.

What I am saying is, ideally, Marvel would be a place where they would constructively look over their scores of villians and work together with editors and writers to find unique new angles for as many of them as possible, so they all could have dynamic personalities, great motives, and provide great conflict and drama in various titles. But that doesn't happen. Marvel is much like an otherwise gifted child whose only problem is ADHD. They can do some tremendous things, when they're not distracted by pretty lights. To me, THUNDERBOLTS has become a gigantic distraction from doing competant, serious work on revamping whole hordes of villians (Trapster included), beyond the occasional writer who comes up with some pet villian to amp (like Bendis did with Purple Man, a great move). It's simply become too easy to just take any villian and make them a Thunderbolt anti-hero. Sort of like in the 90's when Marvel simply made everyone they could into a mutant (like Cloak & Dagger). Especially now adays when we have so many Thunderbolts, it drains the rosters of competant villians they can use. Sure, that's not entirely the fault of the franchise or it's premise. But that is the reality. Joe Q may insist on avoiding it, but I don't. Only by honestly facing reality do you have any chance to alter it, but too many people in power, from comics to government, refuse to for a variety of reasons.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Agreed. Zemo being elected to anything but a prison cell doesn't make sense. Someone with a history like him would be "bomb squad" level of things. Last resort at best, and not even considered in a start up status. Much less, in charge of a government team. Tony could easily regulate two or three teams anymore with his Extremis upgrade. Hell, the Argo's were kicking the hell out of everybody with his subconcious mind. And before that, he was committed to six arduous tasks while easily handling the Crimson Dynamo before that.

Civil War could've been WORLDS better if they decided to follow personalities and strengths, rather than just...well... what they're doing now.