Daredevil What did you not like about Daredevil Season 2? Spoilers Ahead

[dmcreif]

So basically you would want to take out the drama? And Matt not communicating with his friends was a huge point in season 2 and it's a great character flaw of Matt Murdock. Characters without flaws and shows without drama make for some really boring television.

Well they'd still have drama, drama of the "Matt is torn between helping out Elektra or helping Karen and Foggy, and always choosing the latter option".

 

[dmcreif]

So basically you would want to take out the drama? And Matt not communicating with his friends was a huge point in season 2 and it's a great character flaw of Matt Murdock. Characters without flaws and shows without drama make for some really boring television.

The plot of season 2 didn't need Matt's life to be destroyed. A lot of the plot revolved around Matt reacting to things instigated by people not connected to the interpersonal drama, like Frank, Fisk, Reyes and Nobu. And a lot of that stuff would still happen even if Matt had been honest with Karen and Foggy and also been keeping Elektra at arms length.

 

[Whatupman]

The plot of season 2 didn't need Matt's life to be destroyed. A lot of the plot revolved around Matt reacting to things instigated by people not connected to the interpersonal drama, like Frank, Fisk, Reyes and Nobu. And a lot of that stuff would still happen even if Matt had been honest with Karen and Foggy and also been keeping Elektra at arms length.

But you always should put the protagonist through hell. Matt´s biggest struggle was juggling his two personas, and ultimately his failure at that. What you're suggesting would make things easier for Matt, which is the last thing you want to do to your protagonist, and also strip him of a character flaw, also something you shouldn't do to your protagonist.

 

[dmcreif]

But you always should put the protagonist through hell. Matt´s biggest struggle was juggling his two personas, and ultimately his failure at that. What you're suggesting would make things easier for Matt, which is the last thing you want to do to your protagonist, and also strip him of a character flaw, also something you shouldn't do to your protagonist.

I understand the tradeoff. I mean, season 2 was Empire Strikes Back bleak, because of how little was accomplished on Matt's end.

 

[pixen]

I think the season would have been much better if something told Matt he needed to communicate with his people. Like, if he told Foggy and Karen about Elektra right away when she put the money in their account, maybe Foggy could've talked Matt out of going on date night fights with ninjas, and the Castle case would be less of a disaster.

It'd also be better if Karen had allowed Matt to come with her into police protection, if Matt had accompanied Karen when she interviewed Colonel Schoonover, and it had been Matt, not Frank, who shielded Karen when her apartment got shot up.

I understand the tradeoff. I mean, season 2 was Empire Strikes Back bleak, because of how little was accomplished on Matt's end.

Despite making a thread on it and posting about it in another one... That's the whole point! No matter how many times you make a post about it, it was done for this reason. Matt had to fall and fail and he did so by his choices. Asking to change how a show was written to make it so your lead character can have everything go well/according to plan and lack any conflict makes for a boring show. It's also lazy writing as the character needs conflict to go somewhere.

Matt did ALL of this stuff because he thought it'd protect the people he loved. And after making that decision, the people he loved suffered the most and left him. Elektra died, Foggy quit and left the law firm, and Karen was completely over him with how he left her and Foggy on the Punisher case. This all lead to his big reveal to her that he was Daredevil.

 

[dmcreif]

Despite making a thread on it and posting about it in another one... That's the whole point! No matter how many times you make a post about it, it was done for this reason. Matt had to fall and fail and he did so by his choices. Asking to change how a show was written to make it so your lead character can have everything go well/according to plan and lack any conflict makes for a boring show. It's also lazy writing as the character needs conflict to go somewhere.

Matt did ALL of this stuff because he thought it'd protect the people he loved. And after making that decision, the people he loved suffered the most and left him. Elektra died, Foggy quit and left the law firm, and Karen was completely over him with how he left her and Foggy on the Punisher case. This all lead to his big reveal to her that he was Daredevil.

Season 2 lost its footing in the back half, I think, because it became more about setting up two spinoffs than about a standalone story. Matt’s integrity went out the window, Foggy got left on the sidelines, etc.

I find season 1 so much more satisfying than season 2, partly because of the happy ending of the main plot, with Fisk being captured and jailed, but also because it gives Matt a nice character arc: he refuses to do things Stick’s way, he keeps his friends close, and he learns to be more open with the people he cares about. But then season 2 takes all that character development away, and makes him re-learn the same lessons all over again.

The plot of the season didn't require Matt’s personal life to be destroyed, because a lot of the plot is essentially Matt reacting to the choices made by characters that aren’t connected to all the personal drama, like Frank, Fisk, Nobu, and Reyes. Matt reacts to things initiated by other people, things that still would have happened even if Matt had spent the season being honest with Foggy and Karen about what he was doing, and keeping Elektra at arm’s length. Some of the details would be different, of course, but the main storyline could play out in much the same way.

Frank and Elektra are good foils for Matt, who can make him question his moral code, with Elektra also having the personal connection to Matt's past. I know they wanted to go dark, but Matt’s failures as Daredevil should have been enough. Season 2 could still end with Frank Castle escaped, Fisk bent on revenge, the Hand still active, Elektra dead and Matt feeling guilty and futile, and Matt giving up Daredevil, without having to lose Karen and Foggy on top of it.

Basically, I'd have liked season 2 even more if it played out without destroying Matt’s personal life, by having Matt be honest with Foggy and Karen (which would also mean having Matt tell Karen that he’s Daredevil early in the season, preferably on their first date), not let himself be so easily manipulated by Elektra, and also featuring more Father Lantom to talk some sense into Matt.