What do People Have Against Grad School?

[Jager X]

So I am finishing my last undergraduate semester in art school and am currently applying for my Master's in Animation in San Francisco. Now, I know that many of you may not have experienced art school but for some reason there seems to be a great bitter disdain for graduate school among the lot of teachers at my school. I feel that by going to grad school that I am opening myself to a much stronger education that I feel the current school did not fully supply me with. I know full well of the financial risks that go into applying to graduate school but I am confident in the opportunity that will open up to me. I will be 24 years old with a MFA degree and a much stronger portfolio that will get me noticed. Despite all this, I have teachers who tries to berate my decision to get a higher education. I was just wondering if any of you experienced this before or is there something that I am missing that goes on in grad school besides hard work?

 

[The Riddler]

i don't know how much utility grad school will have for you, but i've never heard of teachers berating a decision like that.

grad school is the new college, imo.

i'll very likely be attending law school in sf next year as i'm finishing up my last year of undergrad as well; plenty of people have warned me about the legal field and law school, but no one has pooped on graduate school in general.

 

[The Squirrel]

I think it depends on the degree and program you go into. I've seen some Grad School programs that just seem like an extra two years of stuff you already did in undergraduate. That just seems like a waste of money to me. But that's my choice. I'm not going to berate someone who wants to get a Graduate degree.

 

[Hurm...]

So I am finishing my last undergraduate semester in art school and am currently applying for my Master's in Animation in San Francisco. Now, I know that many of you may not have experienced art school but for some reason there seems to be a great bitter disdain for graduate school among the lot of teachers at my school. I feel that by going to grad school that I am opening myself to a much stronger education that I feel the current school did not fully supply me with. I know full well of the financial risks that go into applying to graduate school but I am confident in the opportunity that will open up to me. I will be 24 years old with a MFA degree and a much stronger portfolio that will get me noticed. Despite all this, I have teachers who tries to berate my decision to get a higher education. I was just wondering if any of you experienced this before or is there something that I am missing that goes on in grad school besides hard work?

That's very similar to what I plan to do. Especially since I started studying film at an early age (17), I think going for a film graduate school will not only help me learn more, but it will look hot too lol. Go for it, bro.

 

[Watson]

I think people getting their MA get a lot more flack because it is seen as deferring the "real" world for a little longer. Which honestly, I don't get. I'm in law school now and I envy my friends who work. They deal with BS from 9-5 or whatever, but then they leave and have actual time to themselves. I am doing work 24/7 (I say this having only slept an hour tonight trying to get stuff done). Being a student doesn't stop until your last exam, and even then you're still looking for jobs, internships, fellowships, and a ton of other stuff. And that's while usually sinking yourself deep in debt, and trying to maintain a life. I count myself lucky that I'm not in school with a family. [/rant]

But yeah. As long as the program offers what you want and you make the most of the experience, it's probably not a bad idea.

Anyways, here's something all my grad school peers should appreciate.

[FONT=times, times new roman]FAQ:
The "Snake Fight"
Portion Of Your
Thesis Defense.[/FONT]

[FONT=times, times new roman][SIZE=-1]BY LUKE BURNS[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=times, times new roman][SIZE=-1]- - - -[/SIZE][/FONT]​

[FONT=times, times new roman]Q: Do I have to kill the snake?
A: University guidelines state that you have to "defeat" the snake. There are many ways to accomplish this. Lots of students choose to wrestle the snake. Some construct decoys and elaborate traps to confuse and then ensnare the snake. One student brought a flute and played a song to lull the snake to sleep. Then he threw the snake out a window. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Does everyone fight the same snake?
A: No. You will fight one of the many snakes that are kept on campus by the facilities department. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Are the snakes big?
A: We have lots of different snakes. The quality of your work determines which snake you will fight. The better your thesis is, the smaller the snake will be. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Does my thesis adviser pick the snake?
A: No. Your adviser just tells the guy who picks the snakes how good your thesis was. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: What does it mean if I get a small snake that is also very strong?
A: Snake-picking is not an exact science. The size of the snake is the main factor. The snake may be very strong, or it may be very weak. It may be of Asian, African, or South American origin. It may constrict its victims and then swallow them whole, or it may use venom to blind and/or paralyze its prey. You shouldn't read too much into these other characteristics. Although if you get a poisonous snake, it often means that there was a problem with the formatting of your bibliography. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: When and where do I fight the snake? Does the school have some kind of pit or arena for snake fights?
A: You fight the snake in the room you have reserved for your defense. The fight generally starts after you have finished answering questions about your thesis. However, the snake will be lurking in the room the whole time and it can strike at any point. If the snake attacks prematurely it's obviously better to defeat it and get back to the rest of your defense as quickly as possible. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Would someone who wrote a bad thesis and defeated a large snake get the same grade as someone who wrote a good thesis and defeated a small snake?
A: Yes. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: So then couldn't you just fight a snake in lieu of actually writing a thesis?
A: Technically, yes. But in that case the snake would be very big. Very big, indeed. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Could the snake kill me?
A: That almost never happens. But if you're worried, just make sure that you write a good thesis. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: Why do I have to do this?
A: Snake fighting is one of the great traditions of higher education. It may seem somewhat antiquated and silly, like the robes we wear at graduation, but fighting a snake is an important part of the history and culture of every reputable university. Almost everyone with an advanced degree has gone through this process. Notable figures such as John Foster Dulles, Philip Roth, and Doris Kearns Goodwin (to name but a few) have all had to defeat at least one snake in single combat. [/FONT]
[FONT=times, times new roman] Q: This whole snake thing is just a metaphor, right?
A: I assure you, the snakes are very real.
[/FONT]


[FONT=times, times new roman]

[/FONT]


[FONT=times, times new roman]http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2010/11/19burns.html
[/FONT]

 

[Firm18]

Well in my case I will be doing Uni, I graduated High School with top marks and etc, I was the top student and everything but I chose a master that was bloody awful - Japanese, ended up with a group of people of 20 people, 17 of them studied Japanese for six years, there were only 2 people besides me who never learned it before. But they've already quit. So I'm on my own in that class, and I'm doing ok, getting A's and doing my exams well but I hate the classes, it's boring, it's very stressful and there is so much work involved that a newbie like me suffers a lot. So I will be changing that (although I won't stop learning Japanese, I like it) but the system over here is so bad that I'll have to wait till October for my new classes. So now, I have to find a job or something to just fill out the few months, it's all good though, I'll do my driving licence (finally) and will have time to read all the books I was willing to.

Some of you may say, ok but why won't you just stay there till the rest of the year? Well, I have to pay something like 3000$ every year so I'm not really willing to that.

I'm not looking at this as a like a failure since I know I could finish it (my exams and marks are the proof) but I'm just not ejoying this at all. These few months will be for me to gain experience and do the things I've always wanted to.

 

[Sundancer]

I think there's a hesitancy for anyting with the fine arts or anything creative because such jobs are very competetive and don't too much to start out. I'd love to get a degree in creative writing, but genre writing is frowned upon.

I'm 37, much older than others here I think, and I graduated with my Bach in English in 1995. For years I managed to carve a pseudo career in library work.

When I was let go two years ago because of the economy, I started on my Masters in Library Science. To me, it'll be a job while I work on my real passion--writing and film.


I also work as an Enrollment Advisor at an online school, so I talk to people all day about the pros and cons of going to graduate school.

 

[NHawk19]

It has to do with Return on Investment.

When someone graduates college they have paid anywhere between $40k-100k if not more on tuition. But your average salaray is 30k-40K per year if you get a job in your field. Loan payments and interest rates are high right now so paying school off is tough to begin with.

A masters will only bump your pay slightly again depending on your field but will cost an additional 40-100k.

You really have to sit and figure out what you can do with your degree and what you will make to see if the return is worth it right away.

 

[Anita18]

Grad school is typically pretty expensive, unless you go for a PhD because at least you'd get a stipend.

It also depends on the kind of field you're going into. Many art schools see themselves as vocational schools, so you'd be able to apply your knowledge at a job straight out instead of "having" to get more education. In that case a graduate education may be seen as a waste of your time and money.

I don't think I'd go to grad school. I am going back to school for graphic design, but I'm also going to supplement it with self-study in programming so I'll have a leg up on the designers who don't know how to code. (Which is most of them. ) So in that case a graduate education would be a waste of time and money for me. But if you've done your research and you feel it's the right decision for you, then by all means go for it!

Dr. Watson, good luck on the law school! Law jobs are extremely hard to come by now, and the five-figure debt still has to get paid. Many of my friends who went to law school are now second-guessing their decision because of how bad the job market is. (That and the debt...) But I also know people who are doing well so I think it's a matter of being flexible in terms of location and really busting your butt. That and knowing Mandarin Chinese, which is how one of my friends out of Georgetown got her gig at an actual law firm.

 

[Watson]

^I'm Canadian, and our job market isn't quite as badly hit or as oversaturated as the American market. After I article (we have to an apprentice year before we can practice on our own) I'm hoping to land at an NGO or do mat. leave temp jobs at law firms, and supplement it with freelance writing. I eventually want to make the jump to journalism full time, but that job market is even worse so I'm trying to play it safe.

EDIT: Also, I'm very likely starting the first part of a international LLM next year so I may end up on that career track. Who knows?

Graphic design is fun. I know a boatload of designers and coders. Do you want to do ad work?

 

[AndThePickles]

Never heard of such an issue before...particularly with my undergrad professors, they would always talk about grad school as if they assumed that all of us were going.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I think people getting their MA get a lot more flack because it is seen as deferring the "real" world for a little longer. Which honestly, I don't get. I'm in law school now and I envy my friends who work. They deal with BS from 9-5 or whatever, but then they leave and have actual time to themselves. I am doing work 24/7 (I say this having only slept an hour tonight trying to get stuff done). Being a student doesn't stop until your last exam, and even then you're still looking for jobs, internships, fellowships, and a ton of other stuff. And that's while usually sinking yourself deep in debt, and trying to maintain a life. I count myself lucky that I'm not in school with a family. [/rant]

But yeah. As long as the program offers what you want and you make the most of the experience, it's probably not a bad idea.

Anyways, here's something all my grad school peers should appreciate.

[/FONT]


[FONT=times, times new roman]http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2010/11/19burns.html
[/FONT]

From what I understand a career in law isn't 9-5 either

 

[Anita18]

Graphic design is fun. I know a boatload of designers and coders. Do you want to do ad work?

I think ad work is pretty saturated. I was more interested in logo design or web design stuff.

From what I understand a career in law isn't 9-5 either

Depends on what you want to get into. Not sure how it is in Canada, but yeah, a job in "biglaw" is often 7 to 11. You get paid big money, but you don't get enough free time to enjoy it! I've heard it described as a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

 

[Jager X]

Grad school is typically pretty expensive, unless you go for a PhD because at least you'd get a stipend.

It also depends on the kind of field you're going into. Many art schools see themselves as vocational schools, so you'd be able to apply your knowledge at a job straight out instead of "having" to get more education. In that case a graduate education may be seen as a waste of your time and money.

I don't think I'd go to grad school. I am going back to school for graphic design, but I'm also going to supplement it with self-study in programming so I'll have a leg up on the designers who don't know how to code. (Which is most of them. ) So in that case a graduate education would be a waste of time and money for me. But if you've done your research and you feel it's the right decision for you, then by all means go for it!

Dr. Watson, good luck on the law school! Law jobs are extremely hard to come by now, and the five-figure debt still has to get paid. Many of my friends who went to law school are now second-guessing their decision because of how bad the job market is. (That and the debt...) But I also know people who are doing well so I think it's a matter of being flexible in terms of location and really busting your butt. That and knowing Mandarin Chinese, which is how one of my friends out of Georgetown got her gig at an actual law firm.

Yea, I think my art school sees itself as a vocational school in that sense as well. But the thing is with my school is that they expect you to go out and get a job with a shoddy portfolio and limited skills. During my four years, there was too much focus on the concept of things instead of technical skills. We have to spend hours and hours on ideas before we can get into these complex programs. I understand concept is important but that is what foundations were for. One can have a brilliant idea but it is the skills and knowledge to execute the idea that matters.

That's why most people who have graduated in my major have failed to actually get into the field that they spent four years busting their ass to get to. I don't want that to happen to me at all. I weighed pros and cons of grad school but I feel that it must be a risk I have to take.

 

[Sundancer]

A masters will only bump your pay slightly again depending on your field but will cost an additional 40-100k.

Masters are generally a lot less than that, less than $20,000, not counting living expenses.

 

[Timstuff]

It's expensive and doesn't always guarantee a better job, that's pretty much what it boils down to.

 

[NHawk19]

Masters are generally a lot less than that, less than $20,000, not counting living expenses.

My sisters was $20k/year for a 2 year program and my gf was about the same. That's where I pulled the numbers.

 

[Anita18]

Yea, I think my art school sees itself as a vocational school in that sense as well. But the thing is with my school is that they expect you to go out and get a job with a shoddy portfolio and limited skills. During my four years, there was too much focus on the concept of things instead of technical skills. We have to spend hours and hours on ideas before we can get into these complex programs. I understand concept is important but that is what foundations were for. One can have a brilliant idea but it is the skills and knowledge to execute the idea that matters.

That's why most people who have graduated in my major have failed to actually get into the field that they spent four years busting their ass to get to. I don't want that to happen to me at all. I weighed pros and cons of grad school but I feel that it must be a risk I have to take.

Hmm, that'd be a crappy vocational school! The $$ prestigious art school near me (Art Center, where Zack Snyder graduated from, along with countless concept artists and car designers, and where I would go if I had unlimited funds ) is definitely more of a vocational school than the one you're mentioning. Every class is made up of projects that can be used for a portfolio. I took night classes and I can use the work for a portfolio. It's pretty sweet but yeah, expensive.

Sorry to hear that yours wasn't the same experience. If you feel you need it, then you should definitely go for it. Research programs though, maybe the grad school will be just as theoretical!

 

[Watson]

From what I understand a career in law isn't 9-5 either

Depends on what you want to get into. Not sure how it is in Canada, but yeah, a job in "biglaw" is often 7 to 11. You get paid big money, but you don't get enough free time to enjoy it! I've heard it described as a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie.

Yeah, I have no interest in biglaw. It's a bit of a myth that lawyers work insane hours. It really depends on the workplace.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I'm in grad school right now. Yes, it is much more expensive than being an undergrad. (I'm paying $2,300 per class right now.) I have a part time job so that helps a lot. My bachelors hasnt done much for me (history major ) so a masters (library and information science) will make me more more marketable. It all depends on what you study. But yes, I've heard it said that you really need a masters to get as far today as you used to go with a bachelors. Thats debatable of course but it makes sense.

 

[Mac_Hine]

I think for art, a masters is not really necessary. I would say getting internships to learn and help develop your skills is much more practical. I learned a bunch of concepts at school but not much of that was useful in real job situations.

 

[Sundancer]

I'm in grad school right now. ... so a masters (library and information science) will make me more more marketable. It all depends on what you study. But yes, I've heard it said that you really need a masters to get as far today as you used to go with a bachelors. Thats debatable of course but it makes sense.

Seriously? That's what I'm getting my Masters in, too.

I'd love to get one in the humanities or film, but the marketability isn't there.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I'm in grad school right now. Yes, it is much more expensive than being an undergrad. (I'm paying $2,300 per class right now.) I have a part time job so that helps a lot. My bachelors hasnt done much for me (history major ) so a masters (library and information science) will make me more more marketable. It all depends on what you study. But yes, I've heard it said that you really need a masters to get as far today as you used to go with a bachelors. Thats debatable of course but it makes sense.

Heh, when I applied to colleges, I put history as my intended major. Last semester I switched to information science. I enjoy history, but my interests are focused on only a few subjects which don't have many classes on. I figured I'm good enough with computers that info science would interest me and be a better degree for a job.


With grad school, most people I know have or plan on going to it. Though most of them were only 2 semesters as opposed to 2 years. It's probably better to do it now with the job market being tough.