The Dark Knight What does batman need most from his bat-suit?

[gambitfire]

Exceptions always exist depending on the situation

 

[Lobster Charlie]

You see this is the argument that I just don't understand, in the real world Batman, Superman, Spiderman etc, do not exist. The whole fabric of the super-hero universe is founded in fantasy, where the fantastic is the ordinary.

For me a design based on the "real world concept" is flawed from it's inception. In a real world environ do you really envision that Spider-Man could actually dodge the bullet spray from an automatic weapon.

Working from the "one bullet takes him down" scenario make the adventures of Indiana Jones, James Bond, and John McLaine impossible. Why aren't these characters hamstrung by the same real world ball and chain that The Batman is subjected to?

You're comparing Spider-Man (a superhero) to Batman (a normal guy in a bat costume).

Batman HAS to be told in the real world, because he isn't a super-hero. And the charm of Indiana Jones is the fact that he just barely makes it, every time, and we can feel that *real world* danger. It's just out of reach for us, but familiar enough to keep us engrossed.

But, to answer your question---do I imagine Spiderman being able to dodge bullet spray? I'll ask you this: ever notice how hard it is to hit a fly sometimes? I imagine Spiderman would move something like that in the real world. Faster than we can fathom, thus making him all the more "super."

 

[blind_fury]

Working from the "one bullet takes him down" scenario make the adventures of Indiana Jones, James Bond, and John McLaine impossible. Why aren't these characters hamstrung by the same real world ball and chain that The Batman is subjected to?

excellent point.

That's one of the problems with Begins. It doesn't convince people that Batman could take out a room of armed thugs using sophisticated strategy. They only suggest ninja mysticism which is only a small aspect to Bruce Wayne's training. In Year One we see Batman take out a swat team methodically using various guerilla methods. He uses everything at his disposal to survive. Nolan should have adaptapted Year One page for page. Especially the costume.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

What ninja mysticism? I didn't see any ninja magic in Begins. He'd simply use the shadows, jump in, hit someone, and jump out. I think that's called "stealth," not "ninja magic."

At any rate, I do agree with you in that I'd loved to have seen that SWAT scene in Begins. Page for page? Nah, that's just goofy to me. If anything, Sin City showed us how silly that can look.

Oh, and please, no cloth costume. They could work on the mask a bit more in Begins, but other than that, it works for me.

 

[Retroman]

With a million dollars I'm sure you can make a damn good cloth batsuit.

This one wasn't half bad it probably cost less than one tumbler tire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XEaHA-ZBSk&search=batman dead

Batman Dead End? I love it but its a fan film and i'd never want to see that in a feature film.
Bruce spraypainted the suit for a good reason, that shade of gray will stand out too much.

I do agree though that batsuit should be more flexible this time around.

Batman's suit is fine, his chest armor is awesome

he does tho, need a storage unit for, Urine and fecile matter... what's a bat to do when he's got some gwano poking out, and he's in the middle of a fight...???

lol

 

[Retroman]

they can definitely improve on the material the Batsuit is made from, BB suit and the SR suit are supposed to be made from the same material right? but the SR suit is definitely a lot more flexible now than the BB suit back then, so i'm sure they can find a "middle ground" keeping the benefits of both the latex and the rubber suits.

Batman doesn't agree.

 

[batmaluco]

This is only a matter of personal preferences. Some people thinks that the suit must resemble what is seen in comics. Others think that it looks silly when in a live action film.
This is my case.
I think that this comic book faithfulness about the suit it's not necessary, and "Dead End" just proves it.
Others thinks that "Dead End" is the proof that it can work, the beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder, they sincerely find it prettier.
See how this will never end, this is the real Dead End for Batman fanboys and will always be. The other Dead End is Robin.
I tend to like the high-tech look of BB suit.
Not necessarily made of rubber, but definitely not spandex.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

You see this is the argument that I just don't understand, in the real world Batman, Superman, Spiderman etc, do not exist. The whole fabric of the super-hero universe is founded in fantasy, where the fantastic is the ordinary.

It has elements of fantasy but it is still grounded in reality. In the real world, 1 bullet is enough to take down someone without protection. Look at Bruce after his first night out. He was all bruised and battered up. Imagine what he'd be without his suit; he'd probaby have broken ribs, multiple cuts, and who knows what else.

For me a design based on the "real world concept" is flawed from it's inception. In a real world environ do you really envision that Spider-Man could actually dodge the bullet spray from an automatic weapon.

Considering Spider-Man's powers, yes. He could dodge all, or atlest most, of the rounds fired from an automatic.

Working from the "one bullet takes him down" scenario make the adventures of Indiana Jones, James Bond, and John McLaine impossible. Why aren't these characters hamstrung by the same real world ball and chain that The Batman is subjected to?

Those movies suffer from the cliche 'magic bullets' that the good guys either easily dodge or can take a dozen and still carry on with slightly less energy while the bad guys go down in one shot.

 

[afan]

You're comparing Spider-Man (a superhero) to Batman (a normal guy in a bat costume).

Batman HAS to be told in the real world, because he isn't a super-hero. And the charm of Indiana Jones is the fact that he just barely makes it, every time, and we can feel that *real world* danger. It's just out of reach for us, but familiar enough to keep us engrossed.

But, to answer your question---do I imagine Spiderman being able to dodge bullet spray? I'll ask you this: ever notice how hard it is to hit a fly sometimes? I imagine Spiderman would move something like that in the real world. Faster than we can fathom, thus making him all the more "super."

No I'm asking that the same real world Batman restriction be placed on Spider-Man, and in that restrictive environ Spider-Man would also be stopped by an automatic weapon, without even considering the enhancement to the fatal probability of hitting him if you armed several people with automic weapons. The fact that he is never shot has nothing to do with his Spider-speed or Spider-sense. It has everything to do though with the rules of the fantastic universe in which he exists.

And using a simple fly swatter to enhance your speed and striking range makes hitting a fly a rather easy task.

 

[Steelsheen]

Batman doesn't agree.

huh? you ok Retro? if you dont want to strike a middle ground then what do you want? Batpajamas?

 

[afan]

Originally Posted by Spidey-bat

Considering Spider-Man's powers, yes. He could dodge all, or atlest most, of the rounds fired from an automatic.

Are you doubting your own conviction here.
In the Batman real world restriction, "it only takes one."

Those movies suffer from the cliche 'magic bullets' that the good guys either easily dodge or can take a dozen and still carry on with slightly less energy while the bad guys go down in one shot.

Boy you'll have to define your intent with the term "suffer" here, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Die Hard are supremely successful action / adventure films and arguably two of the best films of the genre.

 

[Retroman]

huh? you ok Retro? if you dont want to strike a middle ground then what do you want? Batpajamas?

lol. I'm okay thank you.

The suit looks fine on screen but it does appear that the his neck isn't as mobile as it should be and i do agree that the material should be a little more flexible. Its difficult to do though; to make the material less 'heavy' without making it appear as if Batman would not get hurt in a fight or if he was shot.It's still a 'real world' in Nolans films.

 

[Katsuro]

As I've said before, I want anyone who wants a cloth suit to watch Begins again, and tell me how many times he would have died without his armored suit.

Think a guy could survive being carried through to city by a train hanging onto a wire? Did you see all the stuff he was slammed into? If that stuff wouldn't kill him, it would certainly break a few bones.

Then agian, he wouldn't have made it that far. He'd have been dead after Crane lit him on fire and threw him out a window. The fall would've injured him enough to where he wouldn't have been able to call for help.

Of course, that's all a moot point, as Batman never would've gotten to any of those points. He would've been too embarassed to go crime-fighting again after his first night was ended short due to being tasered by his girlfriend.

 

[blind_fury]

So John McClane can take on an entire league of sophisticated terrorist half-naked and bare foot but Batman can't. That's lame dude. He's the goddam Batman!

Batman made way too many mistakes in Batman Begins. Nobody wants to see Batman screw up so many times. Batman is put in a situation 99% of us would die in and he gets out of it using lifetime of crimefighting training. He's the goddam Batman!

and nobody's going to be laughing at the Dead End costume when their bones are shattered and they're spitting out teeth. He's the goddam Batman!

 

[Retroman]

He's the goddam Batman!

 

[Shoemeister]

^ Seriously!! I mean you people just don't stop whining. The movies are not going to match your every EXACT personal standard. Stop making new threads and SHUT THE F**K UP!

 

[xxshady]

Fools Nolan goes through all that trouble to make a better batsuit and you dont even appreciate it?

Little whiny un-appreicative.....

The Batsuit looked friggin awesome, he cant survive with a cloth Batsuit, and teh Batsuit needs to strike fear into the thugs.

How do you not understand that.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Are you doubting your own conviction here.
In the Batman real world restriction, "it only takes one."

Spider-Man is genetically altered and has higher endurance than Batman. He could probably continue if he took one shot but considering what his powers allow, it's unlikely he'd even take any.

Boy you'll have to define your intent with the term "suffer" here, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Die Hard are supremely successful action / adventure films and arguably two of the best films of the genre.

I don't mean the films themselves are cliches, just things in them. Such as magic bullets that always are one hit kills to the bad guys but the good guys can miraculously dodge them or live if they got shot, especially in a fatal area. It's like black guys always dying first in horror movies.

 

[Katsuro]

So John McClane can take on an entire league of sophisticated terrorist half-naked and bare foot but Batman can't. That's lame dude. He's the goddam Batman!

Batman made way too many mistakes in Batman Begins. Nobody wants to see Batman screw up so many times. Batman is put in a situation 99% of us would die in and he gets out of it using lifetime of crimefighting training. He's the goddam Batman!

and nobody's going to be laughing at the Dead End costume when their bones are shattered and they're spitting out teeth. He's the goddam Batman!

Yeah, but I expect afterwards there'll be a lot of "lol, remember when Jimmy got beat up by that guy wearin' pajamas!". And whatdya you think Gordon'll say, Batman shows up in spandex?
"So, I see you ditched the protective armor..."
"yeah, well you know, this is more.. comic accurate"
"comic what?"
"um.. i mean... it breathes nicer. Yeah, that's it."

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yeah, but I expect afterwards there'll be a lot of "lol, remember when Jimmy got beat up by that guy wearin' pajamas!". And whatdya you think Gordon'll say, Batman shows up in spandex?
"So, I see you ditched the protective armor..."
"yeah, well you know, this is more.. comic accurate"
"comic what?"
"um.. i mean... it breathes nicer. Yeah, that's it."

"Is it 100% cotton?"
"Yep"
"Better not put it in the wash"
"How come?"
"It'll shrink."
"....Goddammit!"

 

[Steelsheen]

lol. I'm okay thank you.

The suit looks fine on screen but it does appear that the his neck isn't as mobile as it should be and i do agree that the material should be a little more flexible. Its difficult to do though; to make the material less 'heavy' without making it appear as if Batman would not get hurt in a fight or if he was shot.It's still a 'real world' in Nolans films.

that's why i metnioned the "middle ground" between the "rubber suit" and the spandex, which is what the SR suit is, its an improved version of the same material used for the BB suit-- it gives the actor amazing flexibility. now of course you still want it to look like armour, but you can achieve that with the right coloration and design without "teh puffy" effects that the BB suit has been criticized over

 

[xxshady]

that's why i metnioned the "middle ground" between the "rubber suit" and the spandex, which is what the SR suit is, its an improved version of the same material used for the BB suit-- it gives the actor amazing flexibility. now of course you still want it to look like armour, but you can achieve that with the right coloration and design without "teh puffy" effects that the BB suit has been criticized over

lmao you guys are such detail freaks i see nothing wrong with that pic except his right shoulder the rubber is a little puffed up since hes bending down...

the batsuit looks friggin awesome who cares if it makes a crease here and there when he squats to take a crap

 

[kame-sennin]

i'm going to let you in on a little secret:

there is no need for any of your spray-on kevlar, revisionist threads. in fact, from what i've seen so far, there is likely no need for any of your threads.

The only thing revisionist is changing Batman's costume from what it has always been, to a bulbous rubber suit. Batman's costume shouldn't be skintight, and it should have some protection, but it should still clearly look like fabric tights. And no, that does not mean spandex. Why does everyone pretend they haven't seen SPIDER-MAN or SUPERMAN RETURNS? The material to make a great looking and faithful batsuit is out there. They need to use it.

EDIT: Also, why do people insist that Batman can't wear a cloth suit AND have body armor. Do bullet proof vests not fit under shirts all of the sudden? Have you ever heard of a Kevlar/nomex bi-weave (then again, you'd have to read the comics to come across that phrase)? All it takes is a little imagination. Perhaps Batman makes a body armor under suit that covers his whole body and is sculpted to reflect human anatomy. Then he dons the traditional fireproof batsuit over the body armor. That would make the suit just as "realistic" as begins, and it would be twice as faithful. Frankly, there are a million ways it could be done, it just takes effort.

Working from the "one bullet takes him down" scenario make the adventures of Indiana Jones, James Bond, and John McLaine impossible. Why aren't these characters hamstrung by the same real world ball and chain that The Batman is subjected to?

Thank you.

As I've said before, I want anyone who wants a cloth suit to watch Begins again, and tell me how many times he would have died without his armored suit.

Um... he definatley would have died no matter what he was wearing in that scene. That's why this realism stuff doesn't wash. It's not consistently applied. And if you want to know how a cloth suit could protect him, read my suggestions above.

 

[xwolverine2]

nipples

 

[kame-sennin]

Fools Nolan goes through all that trouble to make a better batsuit and you dont even appreciate it?

Wow. First of all, he just re-used the basic design of the rubber suits from the Burton/Shumaker films. Secondly, he gets millions of dollars to go through this "trouble", and we as fans pay to see the final product. That means we have the right to voice our opinions if we are not completly satisfied. Moreover, we should make it a habit to voice our criticisms so that the corporations who want are money know exactly what we expect to get for it. If fans didn't raise hell everyonce and a while, we would get worse comic films than we already do.

^ Seriously!! I mean you people just don't stop whining. The movies are not going to match your every EXACT personal standard. Stop making new threads and SHUT THE F**K UP!

Firstly, there's no need to be rude. We are all fans here, and people want to discuss BEGINS. Sometimes their opinions are positive, sometimes they are negative. If you have trouble with that, perhaps you don't belong on a discussion board.

Secondly, I don't think it's too exacting to want a costume that looks like the original comic suit. What's wrong with Batman looking like Batman?

This is only a matter of personal preferences. Some people thinks that the suit must resemble what is seen in comics. Others think that it looks silly when in a live action film.

It is true that it ultimatley boils down to personal preference. But, to those who say that a comic accurate suit would not look good on film, I say again; you can't know until it's been tried. And no, Dead End doesn't count. Until a major studio sinks some real money into making an accurate costume the way the did for Spider-man, you can't say that it wouldn't work. "It's an unknown unknown".

Food for thought: