What is worse, B&R or SMIV?

What is worse, B&R or SupermanIV?

  • Batman and Robin is worse than SMIV

  • SupermanIV is worse than B&R

  • I hate them both equally

  • I like them both equally


Results are only viewable after voting.
In my opinion.....Superman IV is worse.

Batman and Robin succeeded in it's intension. It was made as a comedy in the vein of the 60's Batman TV show. Superman IV failed because it was made to be a serious statement on nuclear proliferation....and became an unintenional comedy.
 
The 60's Batman was a product of its time. It was camp but it offered adventure for the kids and humor for the adults. I'd say Lorenzo Semples early episodes of Batman were almost brilliant in some ways.

Batman & Robin is not true camp but it is silly and comedic in a bad way. The first season of Batman in 1966 was smartly written. When you can slip in a gag about LBJ and John Lindsey during that time the way they did it takes some intelligence. B&R wasn't camp but a cartoon. It didn't tap into the pop culture of the 90's the way The batman series tapped into the pop culture of the 60's
 
Dude, it's not about disagreeing with you, it's about the fact that you have ignored things I said and twisted around other things just so you don't lose face.
There is no point in me responding to you as you will doubtless continue to do so.

...And you've ignored everything I've said and twisted it into something else.


eg I agreed with you that a 2yr period between these kind of films is not long enough, but that it's a far worse thing to pull out half the budget just b4 shooting.
No you didn't. At first you said films like Iron Man 2 and FF2 had two year gaps after the initial films. THEN I pointed out that those films have issues in some peoples minds.

I NEVER said slashing SIV's budget wasn't bad. Once again point out the exact quote where I did. You've pulled that out of nowhere. I pointed out that SIVs BIGGEST problem was its budget. Go back and read.

But B&R had problems in everything to bad casting, bad performances, a horrible script, a director who screwed up, the production run totally by executives, gaudy production design, weak overuse of CGI, and terrible costuming.

And yet you ignore ALL of that. The lead actor in the darn movie was wrong. When the movie is about Batman how is it better when your lead actor is bad at playing his character? Was Reeve BAD at playing Superman? No.

SIV had a moderate foundation but as the production went along it just collapsed. B&R was dog***** from the word go. Its rotten to the core. Konner and Rosenthal have gone on record with their feelings on SIV. Goldenthal literally doesn't seem to give a crap that he helped drop a turd with Batman & Robin. Shumacher has APOLOGIZED for the movie. When Clooney gives cash refunds too people who walk up to him don't you think there's a SERIOUS problem?


You ignored the part where I agreed that a 2yr gap is bad, and proceeded to give examples where a 2yr gap is bad, totally ignoring the point I made about the budget being pulled from SMIV being a worse of two evils.
You've done similar things throughout your posts in an attempt not to lose face. There's no point in discussing this with you, it's not honest discussion, and therefore, not much fun.
I didn't ignore anything. Thats you twisting what I said because you disagree. I'm not trying to save face. You're trying to salvage the idea that your opinion is fact and that you're right and anyone else is wrong with some thin, desperate explanation.

edit: Also, and this is quite funny actually, you keep trying to persude me that B&R is a bad movie. Read the OP, try to recall the thread motive, I know both of them are amongst the worst examples of superhero movies, that's why I put them together in the thread question. jeeziz.
I'm not trying to persuade you about anything. I'm stating MY opinion that Superman IV is better than Batman & Robin. Don't you get that? You made this all about you. You were the one that responded to me and criticized my opinion...which is funny since the poll ASKED for my opinion.

I gave it and was ready to move on but you didn't like that.

edit: and I have to respond to this...



I already explained this, but I will try to explain in more detail.... When you finish off your argument with the twoconsecutivly joined statements...'Superman IV disapointed me. B&R insulted my intelligence.'
And I'll respond again show me a still frame of Superman's rubber buttocks the same way they showed Batman and Robins rear ends. What does Batman's @$$ have to do with the B&R movie?

.
..you are disasociating one statement from the other..you are grandly finishing up your argumeny by saying not only what you said, but the reverse...you are also saying that SupermanIV did not insult your intelligence, and B&R did not disapoint you.
Could you make that more understandable? Superman IV disapointed me because it had a good idea at its core but failed in the execution all around. B&R insulted my intelligence because almost the entire thing was garbage that NO ONE took seriously except for maybe Michael Gough.

Do you understand that? Superman IV wasn't a toy commercial. Do you understand that? Its something you don't seem to grasp. WB dropped ALL pretense of trying to make B&R a serious Batman film like they did with the first three movies.

You don't always have to plainly say something to communicate it, and if you finished off an essay for college/uni with such a statement , your tutor would tell you the same thing I am, that that is the impression you are deliberating giving by such a statement. Placing the two statements against each other gives the effect of disasociating one from the other. It's a 'fancy' way of saying something without plainly stating it, by saying one thing for both movies, you are saying two things for both movies. It's a deliberate effect used in writing.
Once again some kind of personal insult because you're getting upset over someone disagreeing with you. You have quite a few run on sentences. Your sentences have several redundancies. Your post has a lot of typos too. I wouldn't bring up any kind of point about higher education if I were you.

If you're going to argue which movie is worse stick to that and not bring me into it.
 
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People need to realise Superman IV was on a very crappy budget,it had no other expectations to match against,and they did try to make important issues be heard,thanks to Christopher Reeve. It had a genuine feel to it,they DID TRY to make it good,but alas...

B&R...That was a disrespectful JOKE. Created for the sole purpose of advertising and selling merchandise.

"Im a lover not a fighter,thats why every Poison Ivy action figure comes complete with him [Bane]".

Thats what its mission was. Hey kids, buy the toys for this movie otherwise I'll give you a poison kiss.

It was a deliberate disgrace to Batman and loyal fans.
 
I have a suggestion for a couple of you (see if you can figure out who I'm talking about)......stop the petty arguing and insults....and discuss the topic civily.
 
Catwoman is worst than both of them
 
I have a suggestion for a couple of you (see if you can figure out who I'm talking about)......stop the petty arguing and insults....and discuss the topic civily.


Thats all I started off to do. I stated my opinion and thats all. If you see any insults or arguing of any kind in my initial post just ban me. I'm still trying to figure out what I did to set this kid off or if he's just looking to stir up trouble.
 
Catwoman is worst than both of them

You know....I dabble in making my own personal fanedits of movies. I made a version of Superman III and IV combined that turned out pretty good. Now that you mention Catwoman, I may have to try and do something with it.
 
Thats all I started off to do. I stated my opinion and thats all. If you see any insults or arguing of any kind in my initial post just ban me. I'm still trying to figure out what I did to set this kid off or if he's just looking to stir up trouble.

Here's a suggestion for the future.....FOR EVERYONE WITHIN HEARING DISTANCE...never ever ask me to "just ban you"....because I will do it....I have done it....I have no problem with it.
 
You know....I dabble in making my own personal fanedits of movies. I made a version of Superman III and IV combined that turned out pretty good. Now that you mention Catwoman, I may have to try and do something with it.

dont do it...people have gone mad trying to fix that movie...many an editor went blind and deaf to deliver the theatrical cut of Catwoman...
 
dont do it...people have gone mad trying to fix that movie...many an editor went blind and deaf to deliver the theatrical cut of Catwoman...

Oh, I don't just make theatrical cut type edits. I turned Ang Lee's HULK from a 2 1/2 hour angst filled snooze fest into a one hour action adventure. I'm working on turning Matt Salinger's CAPTAIN AMERICA into one or two 1/2 hour TV show like episodes. I may be able to make something decent with Catwoman.
 
Here's a suggestion for the future.....FOR EVERYONE WITHIN HEARING DISTANCE...never ever ask me to "just ban you"....because I will do it....I have done it....I have no problem with it.


You gotta do what you gotta do. You are the mod. But go back and look and see what I did or didn't do.
 
You know....I dabble in making my own personal fanedits of movies. I made a version of Superman III and IV combined that turned out pretty good. Now that you mention Catwoman, I may have to try and do something with it.


I vaguely remember that from Superman Cinema.
 
Apparently you need it plainer....

Neither of you did anything infraction worthy...YET....so drop it. Have a happy civil discussion and move on.
 
I understood you the first time. Never said I did anything ban worthy first, only that that what I was TRYING to do in the first place was have a happy civil discussion. Go read my initial post in the thread if you want to (or don't if you don't want to) and I think thats pretty clear.

But as mod its your prerogative to do what you got to do. I can't change that.
 
Does anyone understand the words DROP IT?
 
double post
 
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Just trying to have a civil discussion on the matter. Anyway the good thing to come out of BR was the reboot so SOMETHING good came out of that movie.

I always enjoyed Alexander Courages score for Superman IV.
 
Superman IV is far far worse.

I made a version of Superman III and IV combined that turned out pretty good.

Was this you?

3d_ADM_SRedeemed.jpg


becuase, damn man, I LOVED that edit, really felt perfect to me, and that little touch of having it be Nuclear Man's scratch that causes the evil Superman vs. Clark Kent fight was really inspired. Just fantastic work - never felt choppy or anything, I feel like if this had have been released back in the day we'd be looking back on the Superman trilogy in the same way most people only see the original film as, classics. Great use of the footage excised from Superman II for the Donner cut as well (Lois Lane Paris sequence). Overall just a really fun and well paced movie, had a great time watching it.

Also, if this is not your cut of the movie and you did a separate cut with the same idea, well then, this post is probably somewhat accidentally offensive and I apologize in advance.

As a point of comparison, I'd say "Batman and Robin: Deassified" is actually significantly worse than the theatrical cut. Which brings me back to the main topic, Batman and Robin sucks but Id watch it any day over either Superman IV or even III or Batman Forever becuase unlike those films Batman and Robin just goes so full tilt into the absurd that I can enjoy it in a WTF WAS THAWT kinda way.
 
Well if there had been only two options I would have said Superman 4 but since we have other options I'm saying both suck equally.
 
You know....I dabble in making my own personal fanedits of movies. I made a version of Superman III and IV combined that turned out pretty good. Now that you mention Catwoman, I may have to try and do something with it.
It did actually. :up: :woot:

Superman IV is far far worse.



Was this you?

3d_ADM_SRedeemed.jpg


becuase, damn man, I LOVED that edit, really felt perfect to me, and that little touch of having it be Nuclear Man's scratch that causes the evil Superman vs. Clark Kent fight was really inspired. Just fantastic work - never felt choppy or anything, I feel like if this had have been released back in the day we'd be looking back on the Superman trilogy in the same way most people only see the original film as, classics. Great use of the footage excised from Superman II for the Donner cut as well (Lois Lane Paris sequence). Overall just a really fun and well paced movie, had a great time watching it.

Also, if this is not your cut of the movie and you did a separate cut with the same idea, well then, this post is probably somewhat accidentally offensive and I apologize in advance.

As a point of comparison, I'd say "Batman and Robin: Deassified" is actually significantly worse than the theatrical cut. Which brings me back to the main topic, Batman and Robin sucks but Id watch it any day over either Superman IV or even III or Batman Forever becuase unlike those films Batman and Robin just goes so full tilt into the absurd that I can enjoy it in a WTF WAS THAWT kinda way.
I don't think that's his but if it is he forgot to send me the cover. :cmad:


:cwink::woot:
 
I didn't know folk had done a quality mash-ups of Superman III and IV, interesting...I've always wanted to do one of 'Hulk' and TIH.


As I was saying, it's a close call for me, reeve's presence is the only thing that is good aboot SMIV, but it's also quite sad to see such great skills trapped in that farce.
When I was a kid, SM I and II were up there with Star wars, but when III came out it depressed me, IV...I just wanted to forget it existed.
I typed up my thoughts on Superman IV a couple of months ago while discussing it elsewhere, so I will spoiler tag it here, instead of trying to re-gurgitate it, just so my thoughts are clear on this movie(excepting any possible typos of course, so...beware)...

anyway, thoughts on SMIV at length...

Ok, opening credits…unbelievable, there were probably ads in the cinema that had better graphics, they can’t even spring for the yellow in the Superman ‘S’ symbol.

From here on in I will be marking the appearances of the re-used footage from SMIII, the flying shot of his flying through the wheatfield, the ‘wheat wiz by’ I shall be referring to it as.

(4.03) 1st Wheat Whizby
(4.22) 2nd Wheat Whizby
(4.56) 3rd Wheat Whizby – it's not *exactly* the same here, but it's from the same piece of footage from SMIII, it's just that they use the bit after the cut off point of the previous two.

The rescue of the astronauts is fine, apart from the re-used shots.

Smallville, again, not bad at all, apart from the terrible computer graphic they use to highlight the X-Ray vision use. They should have just left that out and used a fade or something, some kind of normal camera trick.

Clark hits the baseball into space... this is better than that dumb baseball throw in SR. at least in this one there is a bit of spectacle when we see the ball go into space, in SR the baseball could end up who knows where, through someone’s window, hitting someone in the head, causing a car crash pile up, confuses another baseball game going on somewhere…irresponsible. In space no-one plays baseball or has a house(apart from those astronauts but he knows where they live), so Reeve knows the score as opposed to reckless Routh.

Escape cop-out – for a moment you think there is some actual super-villany going on, but then the two prison guards show up at the edge of the crater in true A-Team fashion.

Why are they using the London Underground, lol, budget, but at least they spring for a big poster advertising the (Metropolis)Statue of Liberty so we think we’re in the US.
I think they have three Statues of Liberty in the DCU, one in Gotham from BF as well.

Ok, there are not many good lines in SMIV so I will highlight the ones I liked…
“Do you know what I could do with a starnd of Superman’s hair?”
“Make a toupee that flies?”

Of course the line is not much without Weird Science/Ferris Bulleur reject Lenny’s “gu-“ delivery.

I have to say, the cheeseball saxaphone music that accompanies Clark and Lacey’s ‘romance’ is a major cringer for me in this movie. Worse than Poison Ivy’s sax tune in B&R.
What are these Wise guys from Krypton on about, they do not have the wisest of scripts…”If you interfere you will betray them…Betray..Betray …Betray…”
Not in the same league as Jor-el, Lara, or that tree poem guy, he kind of runs out of wise things to say after a line or two and goes into broken(chipped) record(crystal) mode.

I like all this stuff with Clark musing over the question of doing something about the Nuclear threat, when Lois comes round to his house and he reveals his ID again, I like the hark back to the events of II, that her memory came back and she needs a hypno-kiss re-fill.
The flight is better than the one in SR, even though it has terrible effects, and at one point Lois flies by herself when Supes drops her.
“You’ll do the right thing, you always have.”
Apart from that time back in the fortress when he gave up his powers! And speaking of which the opening talk by Lara says the magic green stick can only help him once, and it already did, but this is superman IV, lets not dwell on the continuity mistakes or we will be here all day.

(32.55) 5th Wheat Whizby

I love the net of missiles, and the big swing. Not the safest way, but looks good.

I never realised until now that Nuclear Man’s voice is Gene Hackmans. Why does he appear with clothes o…k, no more highlighting such mistakes, this is SMIV.

Another classic line, well classic delivery…”I am an experiment…I am a freako..” lol

and i like it when Lex asides to SM about NM, "not one of your great thinkers."


The Clark/Superman switch about is a cringer for me, it’s like an ITV sitcom farce thing, although I like Clark calling her dress ‘neat’ and SM calling it ‘attractive.’ I wonder if Kevin Costner got the idea to diss Madonna’s show from this.
Oh, and superman ruins the dinner, which is no prob for him as he does not need to eat, and he somehow fires his heat vision through a wall without it damaging the wall.

I love Clark’s slip in the lobby of the hotel though.

Lex tv, I like that bit, a nice hark back to the dog-signal in SMTM.

And another rare classic line “It’s common knowledge you hate children and animals Luthor.”

(56.30) 6th Wheat Whizby
(58.42) 7th Wheat Whizby
(101.14) 8th Wheat Whizby
(101.24) 9th Wheat Whizby

Ok, so, that is 9 Wheat Wizbys, although only 7 of them are exactly the same, the other two being from the same SMIII shot, but coming from a later point that they cut off at in the other 7.

Clark sick at home, I like this scene when Kidder visits, although her acting has been better in I and II, it’s good enough here, although gets a little ‘kiddy’ rather than classic Kidder, like she is moping about a lost toy.

“Where is the woman?”

How does Superman know who NM is looking for?

NM’s mini rampage is quite funny, my fav part is the cop bouncing backwards over his car.

Fight on the moon,…this is actually not too bad, one good fly by bit, that is actually new footage(Damn we don’t have any moon shots we can use from SMIII, give them something out of the biscuit jar), and when Superman is blasted into the distance by the red energy it looks good.

Ok, an interesting point here…the new owner tabloid guy says ‘What kind of disaster could we have brought about here?’ when NM appears, as if they are responsible through their bad tabloid, but they aren’t really.
In fact Lacy’s decision, to make the kid a star and sell papers, leads to Nuclear disarmament, they do more good for the world in one headline than the DP ever did ,lol.

One last shot that is good, and new! When SM comes in for the landing at the end when the press are gathered.

Ok, the thing about SMIV is….I can start watching it and think to myself…hmm., if this was a tv show I might not be so hard on it, the stuff with the Nuclear disarmament is interesting, but then crap after crap is laid on and by the time of the first NM fight I just want to put it off.

I kind of like some parts of the SM/NM fights, but that is probably because I am starved of Reeve superpowered fights against another villan.
 
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Was this you?
Nope...I've heard of it but haven't seen it yet.


Also, if this is not your cut of the movie and you did a separate cut with the same idea, well then, this post is probably somewhat accidentally offensive and I apologize in advance.
No offense at all. There are hundreds of fanedits out there...I'm sure most are technically better than mine (I'm still practising and learning the craft)....I like reading about what others have done.

It did actually. :up: :woot:

I don't think that's his but if it is he forgot to send me the cover. :cmad:

:cwink::woot:

Yeah....Supes has actually seen mine (I'm still working on some others to send ya).....and no covers yet (when my computer crashed a couple months ago, it took all the covers I had made but not printed yet :csad:).
 
david icke said:
How does Superman know who NM is looking for?
That unfortuantly was part of the deleted scenes. After NM kidnaps Lacey...he takes her back to Luthor's penthouse...NM flies off to get something (don't remember what) and Superman shows up, picks up Lacey, and says something about setting a trap for NM at the Planet.

When the 4 movies were originally released on DVD, they didn't have these extras....the later releases had extras for II, III, and IV.
 
I'm sure most of us have seen them already, but for those three or four who haven't, do check out the Nostalgia Critic (w/guest Linkara) on B&R and SMIV.
 
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