What next for the WWE, does it have a reason to exist?

Whirlysplat said:
It's not just crap because it's fake. It's crap because it's crap. What about Owen Hart? He died performing a dangerous stunt to impress his fans. Brandon Lee died because the armourer hadn't checked the guns well enough.
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Owen Hart's accident could have happened on any big budget action movie over the past I don't know how many years. The stunt would've been perormed for the benefit of an audience, not different at all in my mind.
 
amazingfantasy15 said:
Owen Hart's accident could have happened on any big budget action movie over the past I don't know how many years. The stunt would've been perormed for the benefit of an audience, not different at all in my mind.
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It could have been performed, but it wasn't.
 
Whirlysplat said:
It's not just crap because it's fake. It's crap because it's crap. What about Owen Hart? He died performing a dangerous stunt to impress his fans. Brandon Lee died because the armourer hadn't checked the guns well enough.
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Wrestling is crap? You mean by definition? I will admit that by and large the writing is just atrocious, but what if by some miracle they actually hired some great writers and told compelling stories (it has happened in the past). Wrestling, as a genre of entertainment can not be crap. Many of the wrestlers can do feats of atheticism that most people could never dream of doing. In fact, their fake fighting was so good that they were able to convince millions upon millions upon untold millions that their tv show was real. Never before in the history of scripted entertainment has so many people been fooled into believing that what they saw was real. So...the wrestlers themselves often do a very good job. The writing is the bad part...and BOY is it bad!!

To say that wrestling is crap would be to imply that it is impossible to tell a compelling story in this genre...kind of like how most people viewed comic book movies up until recently. Im not saying that the good stories come often (wrestling is a weekly Judge Dread with rare glimpses of Daredevil Director Cut) but to suggest that a genre is crap is just idiocy. Its all about the execution (or lack of excellence therein).
 
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I think WWE has gone downhill ever since they let many of the best wrestlers go, like Christian and esp. Kurt Angle (who is my favorite). I have stopped watching WWE long time ago because I'm not interested in the Triple H show, which is what WWE has become. I'm also not surprised to see WWE's rating decline, as audience is not enamored by the wrestlers that are getting a push by the McMahons.
 
What about the one stuntman killed and two injured filming a car stunt for Quantum of Solace?...not to mention an Aston Martin DBS that ended up at the bottom of a river....stupid things are done in the name of entertainment....it's not just wrestling....and since the Owen Hart incident, no stunt of that nature has been performed since in the WWE...
 
Whirlysplat said:
Which shows a decent risk assessment could have prevented the needless death of this actor.
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Actually, not really. The risk assessment is that this type of thing goes off without a hitch except in cases of sheer dumb luck. Apparently, Hart didnt feel comfortable with the stunt, but its a stunt thats happpened thousands and thousands of times (at least) with no injuries. From what I heard, he panicked in the middle of it and hit the release button. That is not exactly something the WWE could have avoided (unless they just didnt do the stunt)
 
Heretic said:
Actually, not really. The risk assessment is that this type of thing goes off without a hitch except in cases of sheer dumb luck. Apparently, Hart didnt feel comfortable with the stunt, but its a stunt thats happpened thousands and thousands of times (at least) with no injuries. From what I heard, he panicked in the middle of it and hit the release button. That is not exactly something the WWE could have avoided (unless they just didnt do the stunt)
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Are you telling me you have inside knowledge that the WWE did not carry out risk assessments before stunts and it did not take into account the feelings of the performer?
 
Whirlysplat said:
Are you telling me you have inside knowledge that the WWE did not carry out risk assessments before stunts and it did not take into account the feelings of the performer?
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Nope, no inside knowledge...

However...his stunt was to repel down from a cable. There is virtually NO risk in that. That is as basic as stuntwork goes. If that is too dangerous to perform, then all stuntwork in Hollywood needs to stop at once.

Should they have paid attention to the feelings of the performer? Yeah, Im not here to defend the honor and purity of that scumbag Vince McMahon. However, as an actor who realizes that a "no" would mean lack of tv time and less money, wrestlers often do things they dont want to do. Whether its wearing a dress, hopping along with Pepe the wooden horse or whatever other stupidity the writers conjuer up. The wrestlers dont so much make a fuss, they just grin and deal with it since they would rather be doing something stupid on tv than not on tv at all.
 
In the rehearsal prior to that show...two separate safety personnel performed the stunt with the exact same rig and harness with no incident...tragic accident yes, but an accident...there was no conspiracy and certainly no dismissal of the risk
 
BlackLantern said:
In the rehearsal prior to that show...two separate safety personnel performed the stunt with the exact same rig and harness with no incident...tragic accident yes, but an accident...there was no conspiracy and certainly no dismissal of the risk
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If the performer was worried about the stunt and pressure was brought to bear like Heretic says through his contract, then, the risk was dismissed.
 
the risk was assessed by the performer by choosing to perform said stunt, the same could be said for any stuntperson, especially the ones who set themselves on fire...that is probably the single most dangerous thing anyone could do...Owen could have left and gone home to Canada....there were rumors at that point that he had wanted to retire or would retire soon....Whirly, you should know and I've even seen you post that no one makes anyone do anything....
 
Whirlysplat said:
If the performer was worried about the stunt and pressure was brought to bear like Heretic says through his contract, then, the risk was dismissed.
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It not 'pressure", its just unstated logic that if you dont go along with what youre told and you arent a top level star then your role will be given to someone else. Wrestling has lots of stupid things like that. I think it was Mike Sanders that came to WWE and thought everything was fine...however, he was unaware of the unspoken policy that when you walk into a dressing room you shake everyones hand. He got flack for it, and then another day he walked in, shook everyones hand, but a couple of people were in a conversation, so he skipped them and figured hed say hello when they were done. It was considered a huge insult to not shake their hands and he was in the doghouse. These arent contractual things...its just the way of the world. Every business has some unspoken understandings thaat you have to tread through.
 
what happens the day someone dies in an MMA ring.....because it's going to happen...will people call for MMA to be shut down??
 
BlackLantern said:
what happens the day someone dies in an MMA ring.....because it's going to happen...will people call for MMA to be shut down??
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When someones dies in MMA, it will because one man brutally killed another man. He intended to hurt him, and went to far and ended his life.

In wrestling it is actors performing stunts and following a script, and accidents sometimes happen during stuntwork.

Odd that people consider wrestling as worse than MMA.
 
...also a free market....MMA will claim it was a one time incident and they have a right to conduct their business....Dana White is a spin master...you really think he would give up his baby because of a death...you're delusional Whirly...
 
BlackLantern said:
...also a free market....MMA will claim it was a one time incident and they have a right to conduct their business....Dana White is a spin master...you really think he would give up his baby because of a death...you're delusional Whirly...
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I never said he would. Deaths happen in boxing, the difference is mainly kids watch the WWE.
 
Kids watch boxing and MMA as well...it may not be directly marketed to children, but they do watch....I watched the Mosley/Mayorga fight this weekend and the undercard featured a boxer named Beto who had been boxing since 9 years old...and I have seen children at UFC and WEC events....
 
Whirlysplat said:
I never said he would. Deaths happen in boxing, the difference is mainly kids watch the WWE.
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So, if a member of The Wiggles dies of a heart attack while performing then you would support the banning of The Wiggles??

This is silliness. Deaths happen ALL THE TIME in moviemaking, yet no one here is suggesting that movies stop being made. A few people have been accidentally killed in wrestling rings in history and people act like its the worse than Hitler.
 
UFC now has action figures with an Octagon playset...in case you weren't aware
 
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