What was wrong with the current trilogy?

Discussion in 'X-Men 1, 2 & 3' started by TheVelvetOnion, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. EvilClareToo

    EvilClareToo Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head there, my friend! That was my thought as well. I feel he had particular problems with the female characters. Rogue was barely recognizable in the series, and I don't know why he bothered to use her at all-Kitty or Jubilee would have fit the role better, and he could come up with another plot where they didn't need Rogue's power set as a catalyst. Enough has been said already about Storm and Jean. And poor Cyclops-he was tragically underused.

    I don't mind characters being altered from their comic book counterparts if it makes them better. A character like Psylocke would benefit from a simplified background on screen. But to change major characteristics and background events of a character, such as they did to Rogue, Storm, Iceman, and Callisto, just to name a few, for no good reason, baffles me. It seems to me that the more successful comic book films (such as Iron Man and the Dark Knight Returns) tend to stick far more closely to the source material. I don't get why Fox feels the need to change things so dramatically.
     
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  2. Nevaratoiel

    Nevaratoiel I don't bite... hard.

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    What was wrong with the current trilogy? No Gambit. :(
     
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  3. EvilClareToo

    EvilClareToo Well-Known Member

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    Ohh, and that too :cwink:
     
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  4. Squidboy

    Squidboy Well-Known Member

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    Villains who either never speak (Deathstrike's only line was "What are you doing in here?") or those who speak too much (Juggernaut was funny at times, but he definitely should've been kept to a minimum, considering everything he said was a joke).
     
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  5. RisanF

    RisanF Well-Known Member

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    One of the big problems is pretty much everything to with Cyclops. I know it feels more dangerous in this day and age to support the tough, gritty rebel rather than the stiff, straight-laced guy. But it's shifted the other way too much; now the audience simply expects Wolverine to get his way no matter what, and any competing character is dragged down one way or another. I think more writers need to hold the reigns on bad-boy characters to keep them, while learning how to write clean-cut characters with some real backbone.

    The thing is, I know James Marsden can pull it off. I watched him in Hairspray, and he perfectly nailed the role of the slick, friendly TV host with real substance and line underneath. But Cyclops is never given the lines necessary to make his benevolent appearance seem genuine. I think this is a shame, because a properly written Cyclops can easily compete with the likes of Wolverine.
     
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  6. Hellion

    Hellion Oppa Is Here

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    Most of Wolverine's lines should have been Cyclops...mostly X-3...if they didn't klll him...
     
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  7. xmenfilesfan05

    xmenfilesfan05 Well-Known Member

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    But in both of those cases, the title character is ONE character. They get a whole film to flesh themselves out. With the X-Men, they don't have that luxury. So they have to create a new history for the beloved characters, one that allows them to be on the screen together.
     
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  8. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Well-Known Member

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    While I don't think the first two installments are perfect X-Men films, most of my problems became apparent by the 3rd film.

    Cyclops got sidelined in every film, but it was Last Stand that killed him off and shoe-horned Logan into his place... Wolverine got a lot of material in every film, but it was only Last Stand that made him the lead character for no reason... Storm was miscast from the start, yet it was Last Stand where Halle Berry forced more screen time and the character came out wonky... Rogue never stepped up, but it was Last Stand that killed her progression and had her cured....

    All of these things were issues from the start, yet they were only problems after The Last Stand. Cyclops was sidelined throughout but waiting for his spotlight.
     
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  9. Marvel

    Marvel Well-Known Member

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    Taken as a whole, I enjoyed the trilogy very much.

    X1 = 8/10

    X2 = 10/10

    X3 = 7/10

    The only thing wrong was X3's shortcomings. (Cyclops, Rogue, Colossus, Angel getting shafted... out of character Magneto... rushed storyline)

    Still, I'm glad they're building on the trilogy with First Class and not rebooting everything.
     
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  10. EvilClareToo

    EvilClareToo Well-Known Member

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    Hats off to you for making a very good point! An ensemble cast film has far more hurdles to jump than one focusing on a single character.

    Maybe we should focus on format rather than story? Could the X Men be adapted to the big screen as well a single superhero?

    Ensemble films (from adapted source material) tend to work when 1) they have long running times and 2) have the opportunity to have several films (such as a trilogy).The Lords of the Rings is a good example of this. Otherwise the characters have no room to breathe and grow and it tends to focus on only one or two characters (such as the X films). In fact, I can't think of any comic book movie based on a team that was very good (Fantastic Four, anyone?) Joss Whedon will have his work cut out for him in the Avengers. Lukily he will have a series of films focusing on the characters leading up to his film.

    I prefer ensemble cast based storytelling in serialized format, such as television. The various X Men cartoons did a good job, I thought, far better than the films (imho:cwink:) We have time to get to know the characters, the world they live in, and watch them develop over time so that we can develop a relationship with them, even if they differ from the original version. I would much rather see the X Men on live action tv than another film, but that ain't gonna happen.
     
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  11. Panthro

    Panthro Team Language

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    Too much Wolverine. That was always a problem.
     
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  12. Hellion

    Hellion Oppa Is Here

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    On X3...they should have either used the Cure storyline or the Phoenix storyline...I would have preferred Phoenix just because X2 set up the Phoenix...with the Cure a possible X4...but they decided to combine the stories...and the running time also hurt the two stories...

    ...After Cyke, I say Rogue and Angel were terribly underused...with Angel just downright wasted in X3, more than Rogue IMO......I'm talking more for action I guess, they contributed their point of view from a story perspective, but I would have liked to see Rogue on an actual mission, not just training in the Danger Room, have Angel actually put on a uniform and join the X-Men on Alcatraz instead of sneaking and making a brief appearance at the end to save his dad...Rogue and Angel could have still contributed their issues/choices on the cure to the story while still be involved in the action I guess...not sure how to really word so I hope you guys understand......I guess that's my issues with some characters, they were used to contribute for certain story possibilities while being wasted in the action or left out altogether......

    ...I remember Cumming's issues from X2...but instead of just dropping Nightcrawler altogether from X3 I think Nightcrawler's portion of X-Men The Official Game could have been used in X3 now that I think about it...never played the game, but read what happened so I kinda have a what if Nightcrawler was in X3?...I say they could have used and reworked his Official Game storyline into X3 and just have him leave the X-Men after fighting in the "war" against Magneto and the Brotherhood. Well, I can only dream now.
     
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  13. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Well-Known Member

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    I actually like Phoenix and the Cure in one film. I think if done right they could have complemented eachother (repressed power vs. unrestrained, limitless power)

    Phoenix provides the group with their physical threat but doesn't have much in the way of the social commentary side of mutation. The Cure asks plenty of stimulating questions but without an immediate character to fight. Together they have both, and emotional wallop in spades too. I can't think of a more interesting time to have the cure as an option than when a friend has become a danger to herself and others because of her mutation (ironically no-one in X3 seems to consider it).

    I do script/plot alterations in my dgree course and I'm currently writing a revised treatment for X3. It's a hell of a juggling game but I think it could have been great.
     
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  14. Hellion

    Hellion Oppa Is Here

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    I'm intrigued, let me know how that turns out. :up:...
     
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  15. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I'll post it when I'm done, it'll probably suck lol
     
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  16. liverlips

    liverlips Well-Known Member

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    I thought his death made the whole movie meaningful (just like when the Hulk died in the last TV episode). This is my take: If you want far out fantasy, read the stories; if you want cool Sci-Fi, then the movies are your bag. I read the comics as a kid and loved them. However, now that I'm an old geezer, I love the films. They capture the best of the X-Universe while making it believable at the same time.
     
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  17. Panthro

    Panthro Team Language

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    I don't see how, considering that the movies reduced him to a non-entity and his screentime for X3 didn't even amount to 5 minutes.
     
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  18. WildcatNC

    WildcatNC I'm on a BOAT ***** !

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    Is there a thread to discuss how we would like an X-Men trilogy to be?

    I've heard one mentioned and haven't seen it. Thought i'd ask before I started one.
     
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  19. javi1024

    javi1024 DANGER ZONE!

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    there have been various ones: "this is what i wouldve done", "X3 shouldve been this", etc etc. i dont see many of them active anymore.
     
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  20. GuestStar2004

    GuestStar2004 Well-Known Member

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    cyclops has always been my favorite character but to be fair he had a fair role in x1, but what bothers me is how big his visor is... i mean why does it cover his ears? it looks silly like when he is at the train station and has a huge visor and a cap... because yeah no one will notice thanks to the cap :)

    but wolverine still stole the movie and in a way i can see why because he was the renegade with alot of mystery behind him

    X2 basicly was playing on the fact wolverine was such a hit in X1 and was decided to explore his back story, but i thought cyclops visor was more better :), but again its like they felt he would get in the way of the story, and as per ussaull the writer was proberly thinking about how cool wolverine is, but i did enjoy the cyclops and jean mini battle :)

    X3 was just terrible, Fox got cocky with it, certain actress's got too big for there boots, and it had a director who frankly acts like a stereotypical full of himself hollywood movie director and claims to have read every X-men Comic... enough said :)
     
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  21. WildcatNC

    WildcatNC I'm on a BOAT ***** !

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    Yea, I just thought that would be better than the "Negative" threads.
     
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  22. Angamb

    Angamb Well-Known Member

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    One of the main problems:

    - Making Wolverine the star of the trilogy.
     
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  23. The Morningstar

    The Morningstar Well-Known Member

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    I find it funny when people say Wolverine shouldn't have been the focus. I'm not saying I disagree but let's face it, Wolverine is the most famous X character, by quite a stretch. The movies weren't the first place that Wolverine over shadowed everyone else.

    Even in the cartoons he was. And the comics? Well, there is a reason Wolverine is the only X character to support a long running solo book.

    The movies were just continuing the trend set in other media.
     
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  24. MydnightPhoenix

    MydnightPhoenix Lois Lane --> Leia Lane

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    I was young when the Xmen cartoon was on but I dont recall Wolverine being focused on more than any other character. There was plenty of Jean, Scott, Rogue and Co. discussed and fleshed out as well. And in X-men Evolution, Wolverine was more of a secondary character.
    I liked Wolverine as much as the next person but he defintely got too much screen time. Perhaps it is because the actors hired didn't fit their characters well enough. The only standouts amongst the mutants I can think of were Hugh, Ian, and Patrick. James as Scott was good but not as good as the other 3, plus he and his love interest were mismatched and didn't play off each other well.
    I think the first trilogy was great, it just got thrown off by #3 which killed everybody; so the only way to remedy that is to reboot it.
    Now another beef I had was Jean Grey; first, like most everyone else, I feel that Famke was miscast. Second I don't know why X3 even tried to tackle the Phoenix Saga. I have heard from people who read comics that the movie didn't even graze the surface of how powerful Jean as the Phoenix is. There are some things from comic books that I feel should not even be attempted in live action yet; The Phoenix, Darkseid, and Apocalypse are at the top of my list.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  25. PsyJ

    PsyJ Well-Known Member

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    Wolverine definitely got more attention than any other X-men in the 90's animated series, especially more than Gambit and Jubilee. I didn't remember it when I initially recalled my memories of the series, but it was obvious when I saw the series again a few years ago. It wasn't as bad as it is in the movies, but he still got overexposed in the 90's cartoon and in the comics long before the movies. He was more of a secondary character in X-men Evolution and that's about the only thing I liked about that show. :dry:
     
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