Comics When do you think Ben Reilly or Kaine will finally return?

[freemadison]

id love it if they brought reilly back but more as a brother villain than a brother ally, they could make some great stories with his return like Ben blaming Peter for not rescuing him even tho it was a clone of a clone sort of story

I wouldn't mind him returning as a villain who wasn't completely "evil". Like he still wouldn't kill, but he would shun "with great power comes great responsibility" and his Parker guilt. Maybe he'd be willing to steal small to support himself and no one would ever know, except Peter who would confront him about his wealth. He would resent Peter and would randomly physically and psychologically antagonize him (much in the way Kaine did with him) but was not "revenge-seeking" in the way that Venom was. He should be a wild card. An x-factor. Where he'll often appear in major Spider-Man and MU events but the readers will have trouble predicting his moves. One day he'll relentlessly beat Peter when he doesn't suspect it and the next day he'll protect MJ from some super-villain who tries to off her (considering everyone know who Pete is). Preferably something more psychologically complex than the ideas i'm giving.

Either way, I think Marvel will bring him back as a villain. I have a hard time believing they'll bring him back untarnished. Even if he is immediately proven to be a clone, I think a lot of fans chafe at the idea that Marvel was trying to pass off Ben as being more "Peter Parker" than Peter Parker (i.e. beating up Venom and questioning Peter's truce, having far worse "Parker Luck" than Peter, calling Peter "little brother" when he thought he was the real deal etc.).

But if he's a villain, he better be a ****ing A-Lister....

 

[arachnid-guy]

Interesting....

but...HOW would they bring him back?

how would they explain Ben's return successfully...?

 

[moraldeficiency]

How is "bunky" a Cap tribute?
I would think Bucky would be a Cap tribute.

Also Kaine is going to be appearing again soon - Around Oct/Nov.
suposedly - I'm not really too sure of my contact but she says there are plans for him.


An Alt-Universe Ben Would be cool - Specially if he came from a nearly duplicate universe where he was the Real Pete Parker, and Pete died in Parker #75 and Ben of that universe was picked up by the - crap, forgot the name of the universe hopping group - picked up by them, and he finishes his missions with them, and is then dropped off in 616.
Then he gets his own book.

Bunky is a line used around my grandfather's time. I'm sure I read him calling bad guys bunky more than once.

That's cool about Kaine. Do you know if their going to make him a bad guy or try some stupid reformed hero thing like what almost killed Venom?

The Exiles group right? I wouldn't mind seeing that. But I really don't want him dropped in the 616 at the end. Peter has enough clones for quite a while.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Ben Reilly was a damn good Spider-Man. The only thing they did wrong was say Peter was the clone. THAT'S IT. If they hadn't said that the sales wouldn't have dropped. Read the stories fer the stories an' forget those li'l facts fer a moment, an' you'll see just how good they were.

And if I was runnin' Marvel it'd definitely be better than it is now. House of ideas my ass. House of shock value is all it is.

Well of course he made a good Spider-Man, he was just Peter, reverted back to before the marriage. In any case, I agree that things fell apart when they tried to legitimize Ben by illegitimating Peter. That was a huge mistake and I can't believe they didn't see the backlash coming.

I remember when I brought the issue following the revelation of Peter as the clone and my Mom was reading it and Jackal started speaking to Pete and her first statement was that "He's lying".

I think Ben should have stayed in his Scarlet Spider identity, gotten his own title, and roamed the country (see Bruce Banner). They should have played that he was literally redundant and focused on his desire to establish some sort of self-identity. Maybe have him undergo some experiences that Peter couldn't hope to encounter. In any case, make him different from Peter.

 

[vegeta21]

Interesting....

but...HOW would they bring him back?

how would they explain Ben's return successfully...?

Simple...just make another clone that has all of Ben Reilly's memories. A little absurd, yes, but it could work.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Simple...just make another clone that has all of Ben Reilly's memories. A little absurd, yes, but it could work.

That's exactely how they'd do it. That or make a clone of Reilly from a sample taken near the time of his death or some craziness like that.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Or recognize that compelte clones don't GENERATE!

 

[Dark Prophet]

Here it is.

Venom symbiote absorbs Ben's ashes.

Ashes+Symbiote reform Ben Reilly as the new Venom.

Boom.

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Bunky is a line used around my grandfather's time. I'm sure I read him calling bad guys bunky more than once.

That's cool about Kaine. Do you know if their going to make him a bad guy or try some stupid reformed hero thing like what almost killed Venom?

The Exiles group right? I wouldn't mind seeing that. But I really don't want him dropped in the 616 at the end. Peter has enough clones for quite a while.

About Kaine, I'm not sure, but they seemed to be doing that to him when he was trying to find Baby May. They will probably continue to use him like a Venom/Punisher type of character.

Ben would'nt be a clone, he'd be the real deal, but from a different dimension. He'd be the same Ben Reilly from 616 up to the point of Peter Parker: Spider-Man #75 - which in this Ben's universe Ben was just a little to slow to hop in front of the glider and Pete did get killed. Then Ben uses the bag of pumpkin bombs and kills Norman like 616 Peter did, and Ben swings down and grabs Peter and then pete himself dies and disintergrates (sp) then Jackal appears and says he knew about Norman and Seward's tampering with his equipment, and Ben hurles himself at Jackal and viciously beats him, and only stops when The Exiles come to get him, leaving doubt in Ben's mind if he would've killed Jackal.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Here it is.

Venom symbiote absorbs Ben's ashes.

Ashes+Symbiote reform Ben Reilly as the new Venom.

Boom.

I think I puked a little in my mouth...have we learned nothing from recent comics? EDDIE BROCK IS VENOM...no one else can pull it off.

 

[Xofenroht]

I really just want to see Baby May return. As much as I liked the Scarlet Spider, the one true Spider-Man is Peter Parker and if Ben Reilly decides to come back, he better choose an entirely different identity to run around with. It's just really annoying seeing the Spider-Women, Spider-Girl, Venom, Scorp-Venom, a bunch of other wild symbiotes, Iron-Spidey one minute, Classic-Spidey the next, Grieving Spidey after...

...if they keep Peter Parker as The Amazing Spider-Man, have a back story where before Ben Reilly died he found Baby May and had meant to tell Peter about it before being taken out by Osborn, that would be fine with me. Then there can be a story about searching for Baby May who may or may not still be with Osborn. Maybe she can even be embarassed with who he is under the mask after all of this Civil War business. Kids are always embarassed of their parents.

 

[freemadison]

...if they keep Peter Parker as The Amazing Spider-Man, have a back story where before Ben Reilly died he found Baby May and had meant to tell Peter about it before being taken out by Osborn, that would be fine with me. Then there can be a story about searching for Baby May who may or may not still be with Osborn. Maybe she can even be embarassed with who he is under the mask after all of this Civil War business. Kids are always embarassed of their parents.

ummm..keep in mind that as far as Ben knew when he died, Baby May was born safe and sound or still in mj's body. That's why his last words are "Take care of my niece...Tell her about her Uncle Ben". He doesn't know that Osborn has her or that there were complications.

Where's my no-prize?

 

[ben_reilly_s_s]

Here:
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[JJJ's Ulcer]

I actually think even Ben Reilly has a better chance at coming back then Baby May at this stage. If Ben Reilly's chances are slim, then Baby May's are none. And I'm not sure that's a bad thing...

At first I was really pissed about the baby May gets kidnapped/killed subplot (and the awful, unneeded resolution involving Aunt May and the "Final Crapter" nonsense), but as time passed I find myself begrudgingly agreeing with those that say a baby in Peter's life really wouldn't work. Unless he was retired, Peter's life is just too dark and scary for a baby to grow up in. And I find him too responsible to subject her to that kind of constant danger. Mary Jane, okay... she's a grown woman who can make her own decision. But I don't see him continuing as Spidey with a baby that any one of these twisted psychos could kill or kindap at any time. He would retire if he had a kid. Besides, a version of her is in Spider-Girl, so that's alright.

On a related topic, I think there is a chance of Kaine coming back to the 616 eventually, but not a lot of hope for poor Ben :-( It would be great from my standpoint, but I don't see them doing it again. And I really don't want him coming back as some Venomated-zombie or some other bad guy. I would rather he rest in peace. The great part about Ben was the exchanges and the brotherly-bond he had with Peter. That's always why I'll miss him. He was as great for Peter as he was for us. Coming back as another generic villain to be killed off at the end of an arc for some cheap pathos and to patronize us Reilly fans... no thanks.

 

[gacallstar12]

hopefully neither come back, the stories were horrible, comic sales dropped. its the "back-up qb" theory, everybody always wants to see and cheer for the backup qb to play instead of the starter. i say if they come back, dont bring it in a main title, more like that new onslaught thing, then if it sells really well, which i doubt, then move from there

 

[Spidey_87]

I wouldn't say that the Clone Saga was all that bad. While I'm not a huge fan of that period, I did enjoy some stories with Ben Reilly, especially the Spider-Man:Lost Years mini that came out around 1995.

I don't really think Ben will make a return in the current 616 universe, unless in some special one shot or title like "What If..." On the other hand, I for one think some interesting stories could come from Kaine's return to the Spidey comics. For instance, since Kaine is a deformed clone of Peter Parker, he has some of Parker's old memories, like those of Gwen Stacy, Aunt May, etc. Basically, what I am getting at here would be something involving Kaine going on a rampage with Norman Osborn, who was the mastermind behind the whole Clone Saga. I am suprised Marvel has not done this yet, it was even hinted at in 1997 during the one shot called "The Osborn Journal," in which Norman displays negative feelings for the deformed clone of Peter Parker.

Call me a dreamer, but I for one would like to see a Kaine-Osborn confrontation. Maybe this event could give the loyal readers that good Osborn/Green Goblin story that has been lacking since his return in PP:SM 75.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

hopefully neither come back, the stories were horrible

There were some duds, and some convoluted tales, yes, but I would argue that the stories were of a more consistent quality than a lot of what we see in Spider-Man today. Ten years later, people still look back fondly on Ben Reilly and Kaine. Ten years from now will people feel the same about Ezekial, Sarah Stacey, Morlun or "The Other"? Methinks not. There were also some much overlooked gems as well. Stories like "Lost Years", "Spider-Man: Redemption" and ASM#400 were anything but horrible.

 

[freemadison]

Ten years later, people still look back fondly on Ben Reilly and Kaine. Ten years from now will people feel the same about Ezekial, Sarah Stacey, Morlun or "The Other"? Methinks not.

Well put. t:

On a related topic, I think there is a chance of Kaine coming back to the 616 eventually, but not a lot of hope for poor Ben :-( It would be great from my standpoint, but I don't see them doing it again.

Dude, Ben Reilly is a cash cow.

They'll do it cause it'll make them money. I think right now it's still a gamble in their minds which i think is why they've been dropping clone saga references everywhere to test the market.

It might take years but i think it'll happen.

Here:
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There's my no-prize! mmmmmm....

 

[Rez]

Just a few things I want to clear up... again..

I've seen referenced in this thread a few times both the financial failure of the Clone Saga and the impossibility of Reilly returning because he was impaled and melted into dust.

First off, the CS was a damn good financial success, the best in years. It practically saved Marvel in terms of sales. This is a fact. The book suffered a slight drop off once the Parkers left, but still, nothing earth shattering. The decision to ditch Ben and return to Peter was made simply because the writers (Dan Jurgens if I remember correctly) thought it was the right thing to do. It was only after everything was set in stone and retconned that people seemed to come up with this myth of the Clone Saga nearly killing the Spiderbooks because of sales. Which is just not true.

And finally, again, Ben can easily return because Ben would never have disintigrated. He would have just died. This is a continuity fact. The clone that was impaled and sent off the building and turned to dust can easily be written off as a quick clone sent to fool Peter.

 

[Astrø]

i am sooo sick of ben reily i say trash that dude!!!

 

[Astrø]

ya i know he is a big part in the story line but i realy dont like him that much.... cant we just have 1 spidey...just for a little bit at least

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Venom Jr, are you smoking crack? "Trash that dude"? "Sick of him"? Ben Reilly's been dead for over a decade.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

bring kaine back and have him kidnap peter and make him help him find ben.

 

[BrklynsVeryOwn]

Just a few things I want to clear up... again..

I've seen referenced in this thread a few times both the financial failure of the Clone Saga and the impossibility of Reilly returning because he was impaled and melted into dust.

First off, the CS was a damn good financial success, the best in years. It practically saved Marvel in terms of sales. This is a fact. The book suffered a slight drop off once the Parkers left, but still, nothing earth shattering. The decision to ditch Ben and return to Peter was made simply because the writers (Dan Jurgens if I remember correctly) thought it was the right thing to do. It was only after everything was set in stone and retconned that people seemed to come up with this myth of the Clone Saga nearly killing the Spiderbooks because of sales. Which is just not true.

And finally, again, Ben can easily return because Ben would never have disintigrated. He would have just died. This is a continuity fact. The clone that was impaled and sent off the building and turned to dust can easily be written off as a quick clone sent to fool Peter.

Erm. Actually buddy, the CLone Saga and several failed TV Movies sent MArvel into Bankruptcy. MArvel was saved by an avid comic fan who just happened to be a millionaire.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

No, the Clone Saga wasn't solely responsible fer sendin' Marvel into bankruptcy. They produced more titles than they could manage, the overall quality in ALL their books suffered in either story, art or both, an' they switched to an in-house distrobution system which was a mistake at the time the industry was enterin' it's bust phase after the recent boom. THAT'S why Marvel was in bankruptcy. It was a bad time fer comics, an' Marvel overextended itself. Take a moment to READ about that era of comics an' you'll see fer yerself.