Where Mythology Ends and Comics Begin

[Xofenroht]

They might assume our culture revered currency and that we worshipped money, at least in the states with "In God We Trust" on our coins and dollars.

 

[A.J.Rimmer(BSC)]

Bottom line is Mythology rocks.

Great thread BTW, shame I don't have much to add to it though.

 

[BrianWilly]

They might assume our culture revered currency and that we worshipped money, at least in the states with "In God We Trust" on our coins and dollars.

They would be right..

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Great thread...I read the norse myths as well as the greek ones. I often do have problems with some of Marvels interepretations but not as much as DCs.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's a good point. I've always felt that DC's gods have been treated as second-class citizens compared to Marvel's. Probably because one of their main heroes is a disciple of the gods, rather than a god herself. With Wonder Woman, the gods can be used as antagonists because it opens interesting story avenues. But for Marvel's mythological heroes, who actually are gods, the problem is that they ultimately have to return to their pantheons or else lose part of what defines them as gods, so Marvel's gods have to be treated as somewhat less antagonistic, or limited as antagonists to just one or two bad apples. Get rid of DC's gods and you get stuff like Wonder Woman's "Whom the Gods Forsake." Get rid of Marvel's gods and Thor and Hercules are basically just two more superhumans amidst a sea of superhumans.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

That's a good point. I've always felt that DC's gods have been treated as second-class citizens compared to Marvel's. Probably because one of their main heroes is a disciple of the gods, rather than a god herself. With Wonder Woman, the gods can be used as antagonists because it opens interesting story avenues. But for Marvel's mythological heroes, who actually are gods, the problem is that they ultimately have to return to their pantheons or else lose part of what defines them as gods, so Marvel's gods have to be treated as somewhat less antagonistic, or limited as antagonists to just one or two bad apples. Get rid of DC's gods and you get stuff like Wonder Woman's "Whom the Gods Forsake." Get rid of Marvel's gods and Thor and Hercules are basically just two more superhumans amidst a sea of superhumans.

That is very intelligently put. The greek godsw were changed to put them in line with the story line of WW whereas the mythology fits into the story lines of Thor and Herc who are adaptations of the mythological characters.

PLus Thor's differences can easily be explainned by the Ragnorak cycle and Herc's differences are lighter even though I find it funny how Pluto is portrayed as a villain when he was not one or not more then any other Gods in the Greek pantheon.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

True, but Marvel is in the business of superhero comics, and in older superhero comics, ruling a realm of dead souls makes you come off like a bad guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Pluto showed up in Herc's current series with a more nuanced, complex take, though.

 

[DoomJester]

I think a lot more of the gods should show up. It would be cool. I would like Ares to hang around in Hercules more.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

We're gonna get a whole mess of gods for "Sacred Invasion." Then, if Van Lente managed to push it through, Herc's going to meet up with his newly reborn buddy Thor.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I like the Herc / Ares dynamic but one thing to note is after Heracles shed his humanity and married Hera's cup bearer he reconciled with the Gods who did not like him (especialy Hera) and ended up saving them against giants which was the reason why Zeus had dallied for so long with mortal women.

 

[Galact-Gal]

That's what Zeus said, but we know better. He just liked to screw around .


And on a different note, I have to say I wasn't happy about Thena the Eternal defeating Athena so easily (in Incredible Herc). Athena is the goddess of war, as well as the goddess of wisdom. In the myths I believe that she's defeated Ares in battle. So, although I like the Eternals, Athena should have won on her own.

 

[fifthfiend]

Dunno if necessarily she should have won but it definitely should have been more evenly matched than the "PWNED, *****!" that we got from that comic.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Dunno if necessarily she should have won but it definitely should have been more evenly matched than the "PWNED, *****!" that we got from that comic.

I don't know, first off I'm sure both were holding back. Secondly athena is the goddess of strategy and coincedently cho was there to drop Thena at just the right moment in just the right way and if athena was standing there the celestial wouldv'e blasted her too. Seems pretty lucky, huh?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It didn't bug me. We've been reminded a couple times lately that the Eternals are, as they say, serious business. They can do practically anything if they concentrate hard enough. Sersi can turn a person into a toad with a flick of her wrist. Thena's put most of her considerable time on Earth into mastering the art of war throughout the ages, and she's definitely got the physical power to stand up to Athena. In effect, the Eternals have been restored to the level they started at under Jack Kirby: they're a pantheon of sci fi gods, much like Kirby's New Gods over at DC are.

Nobody batted an eyelash when the evil New Gods took the DC Olympians prisoner and Granny Goodness impersonated Athena; plus, unlike in the DC universe, being a war deity doesn't really mean a whole lot in terms of being a super-awesome fighter for Marvel's gods. Ares gets his ass kicked all the time, too. So what's the big deal if a being with powers comparable to Marvel's magical/religious gods manages to beat Athena?

Athena was hardly down and out, too. She could've come back and kept going against Thena; Cho just took care of Thena first.

 

[fifthfiend]

I'm not saying she couldn't have, I'd just prefer that she had done. Moral's interpretation has a certain something going for it, though.

Re: the New Gods, IIRC they've always tended to be depicted as that-and-then-some relative to DC's other pantheons. I mean when Darkseid isn't jobbing to Superman, anyway.

 

[BrianWilly]

Nobody batted an eyelash when the evil New Gods took the DC Olympians prisoner and Granny Goodness impersonated Athena

I dunno about that; I batted several. Considering Wonder Woman alone took down Granny three or four times before. But then, WW was kinda designed to be better at the gods' jobs than they were.

 

[Xofenroht]

I'm not saying she couldn't have, I'd just prefer that she had done. Moral's interpretation has a certain something going for it, though.

Re: the New Gods, IIRC they've always tended to be depicted as that-and-then-some relative to DC's other pantheons. I mean when Darkseid isn't jobbing to Superman, anyway.

I think the only thing about the New Gods is that Kirby created them as sort of modern day gods. He made an entirely new pantheon and pretty much established the rules to handle them by, unlike the pre-existing ancient gods who are pretty much just public-domain characters.

Does anyone think the "New Gods" could hold a candle to "The Eternals"? Kirby had a great idea when he created these two groups of characters, that's for sure.

 

[Vartha]

We're gonna get a whole mess of gods for "Sacred Invasion." Then, if Van Lente managed to push it through, Herc's going to meet up with his newly reborn buddy Thor.

HEH I like it, "Sacred Invasion"
The thing that aggravates me is Thor and Herc haven't even mentioned each other.
I'm sure Herc would be pretty relieved his bud's back and Thor's been awe fully busy these days, but SOME kind of mention from Thor would be cool.

 

[Xofenroht]

I'm sure it'll come. Thor hasn't really mentioned much of anyone lately. Wasn't it said/implied that Thor and Cap would be appearing in SI near the end?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

SI #3 or 4, I think.

As for Thor and Herc, I think it's assumed that Herc simply hasn't heard Thor's back yet. Herc's series takes off literally seconds after WWH ends, and we know some time passed between WWH and Thor's return, so I'm assuming Herc's first arc took place before Thor returned. His current arc probably catches him up with Thor's series, but all of his own godly troubles in this arc are keeping him occupied enough that he hasn't heard Thor is back yet. I think he'll get back to Earth after fighting the Skrull gods, hear of Thor's exploits in the Earth-based part of Secret Invasion, and go looking for him.

I dunno about that; I batted several. Considering Wonder Woman alone took down Granny three or four times before. But then, WW was kinda designed to be better at the gods' jobs than they were.

Well, yeah. Wonder Woman's beaten her own gods, too.

 

[BrianWilly]

Well, yeah. Wonder Woman's beaten her own gods, too.

She beat some individually, and even she never came close to beating any of the major ones. By no means should Granny be anywhere in that level. Probably the full force of Apokolips, including Darkseid himself, could have done it, and even then we never actually saw it happening (or read any account of it whatsoever, for that matter), so how are we supposed to know? Especially considering the fact that Darkseid has tried to overtake Olympus several times before...and failed. And that was when he wasn't as nerfed as he had become in recent years.

Really, it was just another footnote in the Amazons Attack/Countdown trainwreck that made no sense and wasn't thought through very well. The only reason no one really batted an eye was 'cause we were all drowning in the imcomprehensible **** that was the rest of the series.

 

[fifthfiend]

"Bees. My God."

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Kirby had a great idea when he created these two groups of characters, that's for sure.

They dont call him the "King" for nothing.

 

[Vanguard07]

Do we know yet who's on Hercules' "god squad"? I know Snowbird's one (which is pretty sweet)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Snowbird, Ajak (Eternal), Amatsu Mikaboshi (Japanese god of evil or war or some such, I can't remember), and Atum/Demagorge the God-Eater.