Who can pull Robin and Nightwing out of the crap they've become?

[Robin91939]

Or, you know, a fan of good storytelling. You'd have to be either completely ignorant of Cassie or filled with unbridled rage at her very presence to accept the utter bull**** Beechen tried to pass off as her motivation.

Her motivation of finally, from her standpoint, accepting who she is? As Batgirl, she was a REFORMED criminal. And if stories like FACE the FACE teach you anything, it's that, no matter how long a criminal is reformed, they will most likely revert to their old ways.

Cassie learned from a young age to kill, to fight, to survive. Those insticts are inate within her, she is only acting on them....how is that not motivation enough for her character?

-R

 

[sethcohen]

oh boy... here we go...

 

[Darthphere]

Her motivation of finally, from her standpoint, accepting who she is? As Batgirl, she was a REFORMED criminal. And if stories like FACE the FACE teach you anything, it's that, no matter how long a criminal is reformed, they will most likely revert to their old ways.

Cassie learned from a young age to kill, to fight, to survive. Those insticts are inate within her, she is only acting on them....how is that not motivation enough for her character?

-R

[Bill Cosby]Theo, thats dumbest thing I ever heard![/Bill Cosby]

I like you, but its clear to me you dont know **** about Cassandra Cain. She was never a criminal. David Cain trained her to be a killer, an assasin yes, but she ran away as seen as her appearance during No Man's Land. She didnt want to be that killer, she wanted to get away from David Cain. So no, Robin, she was never a bad guy.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Her motivation of finally, from her standpoint, accepting who she is? As Batgirl, she was a REFORMED criminal. And if stories like FACE the FACE teach you anything, it's that, no matter how long a criminal is reformed, they will most likely revert to their old ways.

Cassie learned from a young age to kill, to fight, to survive. Those insticts are inate within her, she is only acting on them....how is that not motivation enough for her character?

-R

Yeah, you're totally right, dude. I don't know how I didn't see that before. That whole 70+ issue series of hers where she grew and developed, learned how to talk, made peace with her one (and only, until the Robin arc) kill, which constantly haunted her, and did nothing but good in Gotham and Bludhaven, time and time again resisting the urge to use her skills to their fullest and kill her opponents--all of that obviously meant nothing! Thanks for opening my eyes, man.

 

[Robin91939]

[Bill Cosby]Theo, thats dumbest thing I ever heard![/Bill Cosby]

I like you, but its clear to me you dont know **** about Cassandra Cain. She was never a criminal. David Cain trained her to be a killer, an assasin yes, but she ran away as seen as her appearance during No Man's Land. She didnt want to be that killer, she wanted to get away from David Cain. So no, Robin, she was never a bad guy.

Yeah, you're totally right, dude. I don't know how I didn't see that before. That whole 70+ issue series of hers where she grew and developed, learned how to talk, made peace with her one (and only, until the Robin arc) kill, which constantly haunted her, and did nothing but good in Gotham and Bludhaven, time and time again resisting the urge to use her skills to their fullest and kill her opponents--all of that obviously meant nothing! Thanks for opening my eyes, man.

She may have only killed the Macauan king pin. She may have only been a child when she did it. BUT, the fact is that she was raised to kill. Yes, for several years of her life she did not have the will to murder she has since become jaded.

She took the job of Batgirl to attone for her sins. She took it to prove her worth as a human being. In the midst of it all she got a little greedy. Not only did she want to prove herself, to herself- but she wanted to prove herself to Batman. She wanted more than anything to BE Batman. When she was denied that chance she grew angry. Her anger is something she always lacked as a child. She has been used, lied to, and abused all of her life. A person with that kind of training can only be pushed so far.....

She was BRAINWASHED from an early age, that killing is what her purpose was. Her purpose has caught up with her.

I loved Cassie as Batgirl, and as a character. I also am a HUGE Robin fan. If I can accept that Jason Todd is not only alive, but evil...maybe you guys can realize that Cassie got a lot better of a deal than he did. She may be evil, but her reasoning, and the way she's gone about it has been handled MUCH more differently than Jason's.

She is also not so much evil as she is a dark version of Batman. Looking to rid the world of evil by any means.

I'm willing to see how this pans out.

-R

 

[sethcohen]

read the new nightwing... hes not really evil... just has middle child syndrome... odd...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

She may have only killed the Macauan king pin. She may have only been a child when she did it. BUT, the fact is that she was raised to kill. Yes, for several years of her life she did not have the will to murder she has since become jaded.

She took the job of Batgirl to attone for her sins. She took it to prove her worth as a human being. In the midst of it all she got a little greedy. Not only did she want to prove herself, to herself- but she wanted to prove herself to Batman. She wanted more than anything to BE Batman. When she was denied that chance she grew angry. Her anger is something she always lacked as a child. She has been used, lied to, and abused all of her life. A person with that kind of training can only be pushed so far.....

She was BRAINWASHED from an early age, that killing is what her purpose was. Her purpose has caught up with her.

I loved Cassie as Batgirl, and as a character. I also am a HUGE Robin fan. If I can accept that Jason Todd is not only alive, but evil...maybe you guys can realize that Cassie got a lot better of a deal than he did. She may be evil, but her reasoning, and the way she's gone about it has been handled MUCH more differently than Jason's.

She is also not so much evil as she is a dark version of Batman. Looking to rid the world of evil by any means.

I'm willing to see how this pans out.

-R

I could argue several individual points you've got here, but the number of utterly wrong statements you've got convinces me that you've either not read much of Batgirl's series or you just completely misconstrued the character somewhere along the way. If you're happy with Batgirl's completely illogical and badly executed turn to evil, more power to you. It's being published so, in the end, you win anyway. Enjoy.

 

[Green Lantern]

Corpy, whats your sig from?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dead Like Me, same as my avatar. ****ing great show.

 

[Darthphere]

Dead Like Me, same as my avatar. ****ing great show.

Got it on DVD, theyre giving it on Sci-Fi now. That channel seems to know what its doing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, except they have to censor everything. Kind of lame. Mason's tirades about being "viciously ****ed" just won't be the same.

Still, it'll probably gain a crapload of new fans now.

 

[Darthphere]

Corp, you been watching Eureka?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I have. It's been pretty good.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, same here, it hasnt been anything spectacular but its kept my attention. Its like a crazy ass Scooby-Doo episode.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

SARAH was the best part of the last episode. If they have more quirky things like that and Fargo's incessant need to disguise his voice, I think it could become really good.

 

[kiuju2k]

Nightwing... my gosh. Its just all wrong. I think its just too far gone to be saved. Robin at least has some hope.

 

[Green Lantern]

Nightwing... my gosh. Its just all wrong. I think its just too far gone to be saved. Robin at least has some hope.

Nothing is too far gone to be saved by Wolfman