Why Does Socialism Have a Negative Connotation?

[hippie_hunter]

Ummmmmm.....no. Because socialism is primarily an economic system. Developed thousands of years before Karl Marx came up with it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Actually I worked in fast food from 16-25 for min wage. I got tired of making crap so I went to school and got some skills and moved on.

So digging ditches is the equivalent or say being a sales rep for a pharm co or a Doctor?

I am sorry but Micky Ds should NOT be a career choice! Neither should Walmart.

If you are not getting paid what you think you are worth then go out and get what you're worth. Don't settle for min wage and government assistance or expect to be paid entry level IT or Lab Tech wages for flipping burgers!

Here's the big problem with your "just train more, work more, then earn more" philosophy:

There are a limited amount of high paying jobs.

You have people who get more education and training and still can't find a much higher paying job.

It gets more and more competitive the higher you go on the payscale and there's a limited amount of spots available.

And the vast majority of jobs don't offer free training or education. This isn't Scandinavia.

 

[Green Goblin]

If Capitalism really rewarded hardworking people the person working 12 hours a day in the Nike factory would be the billionare.

 

[Decepticonus]

If Capitalism really rewarded hardworking people the person working 12 hours a day in the Nike factory would be the billionare.

...and then Nikes would probably be what - a billion more times expensive.

 

[Kelly]

If Capitalism really rewarded hardworking people the person working 12 hours a day in the Nike factory would be the billionare.

You can look at the big benefit packages given by Unions and see how that works out. When a teacher in New York, can continue to make $100,000 per year AFTER she stops working and you will see what a problem that can become. As usual, that sounds great on paper, but in reality it does not work.

 

[Warhammer]

Kelly, since you are a teacher, what are your thoughts on your pay vs the amount of work you do? I'm just curious on what you think the best solution is to the whole "teachers don't get paid enough" argument.

I know it's a little off-topic, but it's my thread so hey!

 

[Shikamaru]

I read an interesting article the other day.

Supposedly, Socialist Leftists in France share the same level of distaste towards the Scandinavian nations that the American Right does. Both of them practically use the same arguments against them (their economy only works due to its population, once Norway runs out of oil its Capitalist/Socialist sectors will break down, etc.). I think this goes further to show the key to a successful economy is to have a hybrid system of the two.

Granted I still think Germany would be a more realistic model for a country the size of the US to observe, but I digress.

 

[Charlatan]

because capitalist-owned media has told us for generations that it's bad. as with most things in the universe there needs to be a balance. they can work together as long as there are limits on both.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Or more like it has to do with American culture, but by all means blame the media.

 

[Victarion]

I think its because there's still going to be people making more income than you. So, the question for the individual is: Why change systems if the one's working well enough?

 

[Taarna]

Many western countries out there embrace some aspects of socialism. They haven't become totalitarian states. Yet I feel that many of us in this country (United States) gave been told at a younger age that socialism is bad. "Universal health care?" "No, it's socialist!" A decent amount of Americans also don't know what socialism actually is except it's bad and/or favored by lazy people.

I'm just curious. I'd honestly like to know what everyone else here thinks. Please don't f*** this all up by starting a flamewar. And please don't get me wrong. I am not, in any way, trying to say that the United States should become a socialist state. That's not even the same answer I am seeking. I'm merely asking why socialism has such a negative connotation.

Why? Because it doesn't work on a large scale. History shows us that. In my opinion Socialism dampens the human drive to be successful, and some other stuff in our bill of rights.

Can it ever work? Yes, but the qualifier is this. In a small very rich homogeneous nation where the standard of living is unusually high for everyone.

 

[DeadPresident]

The stigma against any socialist-appearing policies come from the USA's demonization of Communist Russia, it's a memetic legacy. The USA used Communism/Socialism as the buzzword to associate with evil Russia, and people have conflated Socialism with every other sociopolitical ill that was/is present in Russia.

Fact of the matter though, and what most economists will tell you if they're not dogmatic shills, is that any country that wants to be economically robust requires elements of capitalism and socialism. The crucial qualification to that statement though, is that the country will also need measures in place to counteract the negatives of both capitalism and socialism should human nature start pulling them off course.

 

[summerteeth]

The stigma against any socialist-appearing policies come from the USA's demonization of Communist Russia, it's a memetic legacy. The USA used Communism/Socialism as the buzzword to associate with evil Russia, and people have conflated Socialism with every other sociopolitical ill that was/is present in Russia.

Fact of the matter though, and what most economists will tell you if they're not dogmatic shills, is that any country that wants to be economically robust requires elements of capitalism and socialism. The crucial qualification to that statement though, is that the country will also need measures in place to counteract the negatives of both capitalism and socialism should human nature start pulling them off course.

I think it goes deeper than that. While certainly this is part of it. America was founded on the ideas of private ownership and private property. The kind of rugged individualism has been a part of America's DNA since its inception.

 

[BoredGuy]

it has a negative connotation because a lotta people in this country are dips**ts who listen to Fox News sound bytes instead of reading a damn dictionary

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I think it goes deeper than that. While certainly this is part of it. America was founded on the ideas of private ownership and private property. The kind of rugged individualism has been a part of America's DNA since its inception.

That's exactly right. The country's fundamentals were founded on the individual. These favor capitalist ideals. Socialism requires larger government which is not the principles this country was founded on. The ideals this country was founded on were for a smaller government with greater individual rights than other countries that rely more heavily on their governments.

 

[DeadPresident]

I think it goes deeper than that. While certainly this is part of it. America was founded on the ideas of private ownership and private property. The kind of rugged individualism has been a part of America's DNA since its inception.

That's fine, but people need to realize that if you extrapolate that individualist culture all the way, especially with how capitalism is functioning in the USA, it ends with 1% owning 99% of capital in a country.

People can extoll all the hyperbolic and patriotic lip service they want to about the freedom of industry and bearing all your crosses to make a success on your own that America was built on, but the fact of the matter is that beast has evolved. Fairly soon that hard-working industry and ability to move through economic barriers will be all but irrelevant.

Without measures (socialist in execution, most likely) to temper the predatory and voracious nature of modern capitalism there won't be much of an American DNA left to be proud of. Private ownership and private property is fine, nobody is trying to champion some kind of Marxist utopia, but people need to understand that if you allow the individual to trump the interests of a collective across the board you will get steadily declining standards of living until a select elite is decadently and obscenely rich, and everyone else is living hand to mouth.

Unchecked Capitalism and Communism/Socialism both end up at the same destination.

 

[Taarna]

it has a negative connotation because a lotta people in this country are dips**ts who listen to Fox News sound bytes instead of reading a damn dictionary

UM, it had a negative connotation long before Fox News.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

@op

Socialism's connotation in the US can likely be attributed primarily to two things:

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
and/or
National Socialist German Workers' Party

Neither of which is a comprehensive representation of the concept, nor is either one even close to the origination of the concept.

 

[Shikamaru]

It should also be pointed out that socialism doesn't necessarily mean "more government". There is such thing as Libertarian Socialism (Oscar Wilde, George Orwell and Noam Chomsky are famous examples of such). Marx also described what he considered to be the perfect society as "classless, moneyless, stateless".

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

It should also be pointed out that socialism doesn't necessarily mean "more government". There is such thing as Libertarian Socialism (Oscar Wilde, George Orwell and Noam Chomsky are famous examples of such). Marx also described what he considered to be the perfect society as "classless, moneyless, stateless".

ambitionless, hopelessness, disheartenment...

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

@op

Socialism's connotation in the US can likely be attributed primarily to two things:

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
and/or
National Socialist German Workers' Party

Neither of which is a comprehensive representation of the concept, nor is either one even close to the origination of the concept.

The Second Red Scare. General McCarthy. McCarthyism.

 

[Lilbaz]

ambitionless, hopelessness, disheartenment...

So the only reason people have ambition is because of money? I don't want to live in your world.

 

[chaseter]

Or more like it has to do with American culture, but by all means blame the media.

Culture and the media go hand in hand. They both feed off of each other. In some ways, the media sets cultural standards and pushes the boundaries.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

So the only reason people have ambition is because of money? I don't want to live in your world.

You do realize that you do though, right?

 

[hippie_hunter]

The stigma against any socialist-appearing policies come from the USA's demonization of Communist Russia, it's a memetic legacy. The USA used Communism/Socialism as the buzzword to associate with evil Russia, and people have conflated Socialism with every other sociopolitical ill that was/is present in Russia.

Fact of the matter though, and what most economists will tell you if they're not dogmatic shills, is that any country that wants to be economically robust requires elements of capitalism and socialism. The crucial qualification to that statement though, is that the country will also need measures in place to counteract the negatives of both capitalism and socialism should human nature start pulling them off course.

@op

Socialism's connotation in the US can likely be attributed primarily to two things:

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
and/or
National Socialist German Workers' Party

Neither of which is a comprehensive representation of the concept, nor is either one even close to the origination of the concept.

Not really, the roots of socialism's negative connotation go much, much, much deeper than that. Socialism had a negative reputation in the United States well before the rise of the Soviet Union and the Nazi Party.

You have to take into account that English speaking countries, not just the United States, but also the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, are far more liberally minded than the other Western nations. Liberal thought originated in England and English traditions that we see today are rooted in the liberal ideology of Adam Smith, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, etc. The United States, takes that liberal thought even further and is the epitome of liberal nations. The beliefs of private property, hating taxes, individuality, entrepreneurship, civil liberties, etc. are a core part of American political culture.

Then you also have to take into account that Marxism had a rather poor reputation before the 20th Century even started. It took a while for most Marxists to realize that most people aren't exactly down with the whole violent revolution thing that Marx envisioned. By the time most Marxists realized that the best chance of success was through peaceful elections, Marxism has already been associated with terrorist attacks like the Haymarket Affair, the 1919 bombings by followers of Luigi Galleani, the LA Times bombing, the assassination of William McKinley, etc. It also didn't help in the 20th Century with the actual actions of the Soviet Union before and after World War II and another radical leftist assassinating yet another US President.

And finally, Marxism got its ass handed to it in the 1980's and never recovered. And it probably never will.