Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

Hardly heroic, more teen-angsty really.

But the fact remains (you can tell by the look he gives after seeing the news report, that he DOESNT want to become Superman again at that point) that he put others feelings and lives ahead of his own.
 
Although I must admit I did love that scene, it was one of the ones that had me wanting to stand up and clap and cheer, just like the baseball park audience in the film! :D I did have a problem with that scene though, and I think it was that it seemed to indicate that everything Lois had said in her article had been nothing more than her own opinion, and not in any way a reflection of the general public's attitude, and I think this indicates a level of subtlety beyond the scope of the film, but perhaps I'm just reading too much into it.
 
But the fact remains (you can tell by the look he gives after seeing the news report, that he DOESNT want to become Superman again at that point) that he put others feelings and lives ahead of his own.

Agreed, but I think with Superman that goes without saying. I don't think that's anything special. What was he supposed to do, let the plane crash?
 
Although I must admit I did love that scene, it was one of the ones that had me wanting to stand up and clap and cheer, just like the baseball park audience in the film! :D I did have a problem with that scene though, and I think it was that it seemed to indicate that everything Lois had said in her article had been nothing more than her own opinion, and not in any way a reflection of the general public's attitude, and I think this indicates a level of subtlety beyond the scope of the film, but perhaps I'm just reading too much into it.

Oh i think the some of the public did agree with her, Superman couldnt have picked a better way to get back into their hearts could he:yay:

Agreed, but I think with Superman that goes without saying. I don't think that's anything special. What was he supposed to do, let the plane crash?

He could have, he was pretty down at that point. But we all know he wouldnt have of course.
 
Yeah I agree on both counts. :)

Well sorry to keep bugging you, but did you not also it inspiring when he goes back to saving lives straight after learning he has lost the woman he loves?

Or did you not also find it inspiring that when given the choice between saving Lois and Jason or saving Metropolis, he put his personal feelings aside and went back to help Metropolis?
 
No not really. As you said yourself:

He could have, he was pretty down at that point. But we all know he wouldnt have of course.

I don't think a film should focus on the question "Is Superman going to do the right thing?" Haven't we as an audience progressed beyond that?
 
No not really. As you said yourself:



I don't think a film should focus on the question "Is Superman going to do the right thing?" Haven't we as an audience progressed beyond that?

Well IMO it wasnt a question of that in the movie, because he did do the right thing in most of it IMO.
 
But the fact remains (you can tell by the look he gives after seeing the news report, that he DOESNT want to become Superman again at that point) that he put others feelings and lives ahead of his own.
I agree with this interpretation, but it bugged me. It bugged me a LOT! Superman isn't like Spider-Man or Batman. He doesn't turn those instincts on and off because he doesn't want to be Superman. Superman is who he IS - not just what he can do. (Oh, how I hated that line from L&C.)

I'll let an expert sum it up...


"The reason he puts on the suit and goes out and actually uses his powers to make the world a better place, is because it's the only way that he knows how to connect with humanity. That's his connection. We all need to feel as though we're a part of something, and there's no time we feel more like we're a part of something than we're doing what we do best, and when we're letting our light shine...

"Superman has, since his creation, been a shining example to readers everywhere of the virtue of selfless heroism - but he has accomplished this by acting in his own self-interest. Yes, Superman aids those in peril because he senses a higher moral obligation, and yes, he does it because his natural instincts and his Midwestern upbringing drive him towards acts of morality - but along with that genuine altruism is a healthy amount of self-awareness and a surprisingly enviable ability on his part to balance his own internal needs with the needs of others in a way that most benefits everyone. In helping others, Superman helps himself. In helping himself, he helps others. When he comes to the aid of other people, he is exercising his distinctive powers and fulfilling his authentic destiny. That, of course, benefits him. When he embraces his history and nature and launches out in the one set of activities that will most fulfill and satisfy him, he is helping others. There is no exclusive, blanket choice to be made between the needs of the individual and the needs of the larger community. There is no contradiction here between self and society. But it's a bit paradoxical in a very inspirational way. Superman properly fulfills his own nature, and his destiny, and the result is that many others are better off as well."

- Marc Waid​
 
I think we all agree with Uncle Ben that with great power comes great responsibility. Who has greater power, and therefore greater responsibility than Superman? He has to do what he does.
 
For that matter we audiences have progressed beyond any kind of plot Superman can deal with. Except fatherhood.:yay:

To many.......it's not simply the fact that he is a father.....but how that situation was written.
 
I agree with this interpretation, but it bugged me. It bugged me a LOT! Superman isn't like Spider-Man or Batman. He doesn't turn those instincts on and off because he doesn't want to be Superman. Superman is who he IS - not just what he can do. (Oh, how I hated that line from L&C.)

I'll let an expert sum it up...


"The reason he puts on the suit and goes out and actually uses his powers to make the world a better place, is because it's the only way that he knows how to connect with humanity. That's his connection. We all need to feel as though we're a part of something, and there's no time we feel more like we're a part of something than we're doing what we do best, and when we're letting our light shine...

"Superman has, since his creation, been a shining example to readers everywhere of the virtue of selfless heroism - but he has accomplished this by acting in his own self-interest. Yes, Superman aids those in peril because he senses a higher moral obligation, and yes, he does it because his natural instincts and his Midwestern upbringing drive him towards acts of morality - but along with that genuine altruism is a healthy amount of self-awareness and a surprisingly enviable ability on his part to balance his own internal needs with the needs of others in a way that most benefits everyone. In helping others, Superman helps himself. In helping himself, he helps others. When he comes to the aid of other people, he is exercising his distinctive powers and fulfilling his authentic destiny. That, of course, benefits him. When he embraces his history and nature and launches out in the one set of activities that will most fulfill and satisfy him, he is helping others. There is no exclusive, blanket choice to be made between the needs of the individual and the needs of the larger community. There is no contradiction here between self and society. But it's a bit paradoxical in a very inspirational way. Superman properly fulfills his own nature, and his destiny, and the result is that many others are better off as well."

- Marc Waid​


To me People understood Lois & Clark completely wrong. He never said Superman is just that! Through the whole show many episodes show that to be Superman is necessary to have more than powers.

Did people forget the episode where Lois says to this guy who has Clark`s body and powers

"You`ll never be him. To be Superman you have to have something more. You have to care for things that are beyond yourself".

Did people forget when in the episode "Whining, Whining" he was going to give up of being Clark Kent to be just Superman?

He says in court

"All the things I can do. All the powers that I have. I've asked myself a thousand times why, and the only thing I can come up with is ... to help, as quickly and decisively as possible. And maybe because of that I've become a target," he said and glared at Barry Barker, but then his tone became wistful as he shifted his gaze towards Lois. "Maybe there are things I will never have, but when I save a life, in that instant, I know two things most people will never figure out. Why I'm here and how I can make a difference."

Lois & Clark got Superman completely right.

Superman isnt just what he could do. It was himself. It wasnt a desguise. Clark Kent was the great guy raised by the kents who put the costume to be a symbol. And during the day, he also did the world good through Journalism.

People just pretend to watch the show but did they really watched? They just say, oh Dean Cain doesnt have blue eyes or the spit curl. Or he doesnt look like Christopher Reeve. Oh the costume of 1(!) episode sucks! And people post terrible pics of him in the costume But they never considered the later seasons, how the costume at least was blue, red and yellow. Singer couldnt get not even THIS right. I guarantee the writers of Lois & Clark got Superman more right than Singer and his "dynamic duo" will ever get.

I suggest you to read this

http://www.redboots.net/tnaos/lc_relationship.htm

Maybe it might change people`s mind regarding the show.

If you want a stupid bafoon Lex, a Superman out of character, a Lois Lane who acts like a child, a superkid, watch SR.

If you want a fairy tale, something that inspires relationships in a family Tv show format and the best Lois Lane ever, watch Lois & Clark.
 
...He never said Superman is just that!
This is NOT a L&C forum and I have no desire to discuss what they did or didn't do right. Regardless, I prefer to see the "super man" within. Superman isn't just what he can do, it's who he IS.

In SR, I thought Clark vacillating about "being" Superman again was bizarre. He IS Superman. It's his whole gestalt. Doing what he does is his way of connecting with humanity. In helping others, Superman helps himself. (See Waid's comments.)

L&C can be discussed here.
 
He can't have doubts at all? I'll point out he had read Lois's article "Why The World Didn't Need Superman". Not to mention he'd just came back from a "graveyard". So he may have felt doubts about himself and if the human race wanted him back. But when he did come back most reacted happily to him and he liked it (being back as Superman). It gave him joy and probably some satisfaction if that's the right word.

Angeloz
 
Did u read my post at all?
Yes, and I chose not to respond to the 98% of your post that was L&C related material. This thread is about SR in a forum dedicated to SR. Just trying to keep things on topic, y'know? :yay:
 
To many.......it's not simply the fact that he is a father.....but how that situation was written.

All the same, for me it's not the question of "Is Superman going to do the right thing?", but the way it's written. Therefore you can't totally 'progress' beyond that.

Wow, how narrow minded you are.

Wow, how gratuitous your statement is.
 
All the same, for me it's not the question of "Is Superman going to do the right thing?", but the way it's written. Therefore you can't totally 'progress' beyond that.

Yeah, and that's basically what we've been saying and you have been arguing against. Make up your mind.
 
Wow, how gratuitous your statement is.

Well, do you actually believe that fatherhood is the only thing that audiences have yet to see Superman face? I think you need to relax and try to be a little less absolutist in your views.
 
He hasn't been in a pink costume. Except on internet sites. ;)

Angeloz
 
Yeah, and that's basically what we've been saying and you have been arguing against. Make up your mind.

You said: "I don't think a film should focus on the question "Is Superman going to do the right thing?" Haven't we as an audience progressed beyond that?"

I say: "you can't totally 'progress' beyond that."

Now you say: "that's basically what we've been saying"

Please make up your mind. We either have progressed beyond that - as you suggested first - or we can not - as I suggested later.

Well, do you actually believe that fatherhood is the only thing that audiences have yet to see Superman face? I think you need to relax and try to be a little less absolutist in your views.

How much less absolutist than calling someone "narrow-minded" without any back up for such statement just because you disagree with an opinion?
 

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