Superman Returns Why Don't Some Superman Fans Like Superman Returns?

[El Payaso]

I thought she had some very good scene's, that werent comic relief. The comic relief parts i liked, and the way she made fun of Lex was great. But in the 3rd act, she truly sees what a monstor Lex is, and her crying at the beating of Superman on NK, was very powerful, and added greatly to the scene. Also, her asking Lex if billions of people are really going to die, showed she had a heart and wasnt inherintly evil, and her getting rid of the crystals was a great scene too. So yes, i do think she added some value.

In fact, Kitty changed after meeting Superman. As you say, she started to see what a monster Lex was and how brave Superman is. When she drops the crystals, she's saving humankind from a future new threat because she feels like it, not because of any possible reward.

The only change Teschamacher experimented was because she had a personal interest in manipulating Superman (with what she knows about him) in order to save her mother. Her interest in helping Superman was selfish and personal. She refused to save Superman until he promised to help her first.

Kitty's character was there reflecting what deep change people can have, what a difference one person can make and all that because meeting someone as inspiring as Superman.

 

[Peyton Westlake]

Like most of you, I have waited close to 20 years for WB to get off their cans and ressurect a well know icon in Superman. He has world wide recognition & can be a cash cow for them if treated right. So, when it was announced he was coming back, I was excited. But after I sat thru a highly anticipated film, I left the theater feeling so empty. I have so many problems with this film but I'll only list 3 major ones for me.

1. In the original Superman (1978) Lex Luthor was planning to sink the west coast and sell off real estate he bought to sell and become a billionaire. In this version he wanted to use part of Superman's past to level a different coast for real estate. in over 20 years, this is the best you can come up with?

2. Superman simply 'returns' after being missing for quite awhile only to discover he has a son from Lois. The most responsible man in the world.........deadbeat dad? Of all the incredibly entertaining ideas you can come up with to make this re-launch fresh........thats it?

3. And the guts of the story was very bland. I had no 'feeling' I was even watching a Superman movie, its almost like they killed a part of me that was rooting for him to save the day. Yes, I know he did that in the airplane scene, but he also DID that in the original Superman & a helicopter scene too. See what I'm getting at? There was nothing NEW ala Batman Begins to it. We saw this 30 years ago!

The best thing to do is totally re-launch the character, but since the movie isn't old at all, its not going to happen. Singer really had no imagination or at least the writers didn't. Superman Returns got up at the plate, took a swing......but struck out.

 

[El Payaso]

1. In the original Superman (1978) Lex Luthor was planning to sink the west coast and sell off real estate he bought to sell and become a billionaire. In this version he wanted to use part of Superman's past to level a different coast for real estate. in over 20 years, this is the best you can come up with?

Look at it this way: Joker wanted to gas Gotham people to death back in 1989. 16 years later Ra's al ghul tried to gas Gotham people to death.t:

What can I say? Luthor loves land more than he loves money. That and he's quite obssessive about what he really likes. Seriously, if that's his main goal in life, why should he quit?

2. Superman simply 'returns' after being missing for quite awhile only to discover he has a son from Lois. The most responsible man in the world.........deadbeat dad? Of all the incredibly entertaining ideas you can come up with to make this re-launch fresh........thats it?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Superman having a son is quite fresh and never explored before. Then again it's a risky innovative idea that enhanches the character. I could agree, nevertheless, that they could include a giant robot or super-villiain to keep things moving more violently for GA's benefit and it wouldn't ahve harmed the child idea.

3. And the guts of the story was very bland. I had no 'feeling' I was even watching a Superman movie, its almost like they killed a part of me that was rooting for him to save the day. Yes, I know he did that in the airplane scene, but he also DID that in the original Superman & a helicopter scene too. See what I'm getting at? There was nothing NEW ala Batman Begins to it. We saw this 30 years ago!

He saved the plane (which btw was a far better and more exciting scene than the already great helicopter scene).

Now, I have to admit the action was far better than in Batman Begins. The one-liners, not being too good, were far better too. And btw, I'm glad they don't handle a Superman movie ala Batman movie.

 

[mojo-x]

Look at it this way: Joker wanted to gas Gotham people to death back in 1989. 16 years later Ra's al ghul tried to gas Gotham people to death.t:

Yes but everything was presented in BB with a new and fresh feel.

What can I say? Luthor loves land more than he l
oves money. That and he's quite obssessive about what he really likes. Seriously, if that's his main goal in life, why should he quit?

That whole “land is the only thing they are not making “is so out dated. I mean has anyone else heard of Dubai?

Correct me if I'm wrong but Superman having a son is quite fresh and never explored before. Then again it's a risky innovative idea that enhanches the character. I could agree, nevertheless, that they could include a giant robot or super-villiain to keep things moving more violently for GA's benefit and it wouldn't ahve harmed the child idea.

You are wrong. Superman having a son has been explored before in the comics, and with a lot better taste then in the movie IMO.

He saved the plane (which btw was a far better and more exciting scene than the already great helicopter scene).

Now, I have to admit the action was far better than in Batman Begins. The one-liners, not being too good, were far better too. And btw, I'm glad they don't handle a Superman movie ala Batman movie.

Yah I would hate to have a movie that started a successful franchise like Batman Begins.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In fact, Kitty changed after meeting Superman. As you say, she started to see what a monster Lex was and how brave Superman is. When she drops the crystals, she's saving humankind from a future new threat because she feels like it, not because of any possible reward.

The only change Teschamacher experimented was because she had a personal interest in manipulating Superman (with what she knows about him) in order to save her mother. Her interest in helping Superman was selfish and personal. She refused to save Superman until he promised to help her first.

Kitty's character was there reflecting what deep change people can have, what a difference one person can make and all that because meeting someone as inspiring as Superman.

Exactly, she did develop over the course of the movie and it all began with that meeting with Superman. She saw the goodness and heroic nature of what he does and was inspired by it, thus, when she thought that goodness and heroic nature was being destroyed by Lex on the island, it brought her to tears, and later motivated her to finally stand up to Lex, and do something for the greater good, and benefit of mankind, rather than herself.

 

[El Payaso]

Yes but everything was presented in BB with a new and fresh feel.

What exactly? The flashbacks? The black armoured suit? The ninjas? The let’s gas Gotham people plan? The unnecessary love interest? The chronological explanation of how the hero became what he is (ala STM)? The forced “significant” line (ala Spiderman)?

That whole “land is the only thing they are not making “is so out dated. I mean has anyone else heard of Dubai?

I don’t know, if he flooded America and Europe I bet people would be paying wehatver to have a soil where to live, no matter what decade is. And it gave Superman the chance to face a true challenge.

Some people say Superman’s nature is outdated, go figure

You are wrong. Superman having a son has been explored before in the comics, and with a lot better taste then in the movie IMO.

Explored in movies I meant. Btw, where is this son?

Yah I would hate to have a movie that started a successful franchise like Batman Begins.

Obviously you misunderstood the idea. Batman Begins was a great movie. But Superman is a whole different character for haveing him getting the same treatment.

Anyway, SR did 20 millions more than BB.

Exactly, she did develop over the course of the movie and it all began with that meeting with Superman. She saw the goodness and heroic nature of what he does and was inspired by it, thus, when she thought that goodness and heroic nature was being destroyed by Lex on the island, it brought her to tears, and later motivated her to finally stand up to Lex, and do something for the greater good, and benefit of mankind, rather than herself.

 

[stargazer]

Very good. He's just an actor portraying Superman. This a huge step in the reality-fiction differentation.



I rate SR as I rate IM which is not as the most perfect anything. Just very good. So I shouldn't be answering this. Nevertheless I can't resist to satisfy your curiosity.



Perfectly in character, according to this franchise, and a brilliant way to show us disgusting the charcater is in his soul. He's able to do anything despicable to make money fast in order to have revenge. Not only did he screw the old lady but he also made her to give her back to her family by being a hypocrit.

It made me cringe for all the right reasons.



Very goood written. Lex has always surrounded himself by people that mean no harm or threat to him. None of his henchmen is or could ever be more intelligent. And like that, Kitty is the perfect girl for him that will always be emotionally attached to him and dependant of him no matter what. He even put her life in risk and she felt horrible about it but she stood by Luthor's side all the same. It's the kind of girl that will represent no problems for Lex.

Kitty's written as an ambitious but emotionally weak woman. She loves power, money and comfort and that what she gets from Luthor. When she meets Superman, it's obvious that love is something she also appreciates but will never have. In the end, she despises herslef - she surely thinks she's not good enough for a man like Superman - and that's why she looks for some value in material things as a compensation.

Great posts all around, payasito.

Those are pretty much my scores on the movies, Iron Man didnt overwhelm me, like SR did, IM was very good, SR is great, the action scene's in SR are for the most part much better than the ones in IM IMO. But yeah, RDJ was awesome, and IM2 should be amazing.

It did make me cringe, but the way that the scene intended us to, and she didnt just help him get money, she helped him get out of prison, he USED her, to make his plans come to fruition. Doesnt sound like Lex from the comics at all does it? Come on dude, this was totally something Lex would do.

I thought she had some very good scene's, that werent comic relief. The comic relief parts i liked, and the way she made fun of Lex was great. But in the 3rd act, she truly sees what a monstor Lex is, and her crying at the beating of Superman on NK, was very powerful, and added greatly to the scene. Also, her asking Lex if billions of people are really going to die, showed she had a heart and wasnt inherintly evil, and her getting rid of the crystals was a great scene too. So yes, i do think she added some value.

Exactly, she did develop over the course of the movie and it all began with that meeting with Superman. She saw the goodness and heroic nature of what he does and was inspired by it, thus, when she thought that goodness and heroic nature was being destroyed by Lex on the island, it brought her to tears, and later motivated her to finally stand up to Lex, and do something for the greater good, and benefit of mankind, rather than herself.

Very well said!! I liked Kitty's role in the movie.

What exactly? The flashbacks? The black armoured suit? The ninjas? The let’s gas Gotham people plan? The unnecessary love interest? The chronological explanation of how the hero became what he is (ala STM)? The forced “significant” line (ala Spiderman)?



I don’t know, if he flooded America and Europe I bet people would be paying wehatver to have a soil where to live, no matter what decade is. And it gave Superman the chance to face a true challenge.

Some people say Superman’s nature is outdated, go figure



Explored in movies I meant. Btw, where is this son?



Obviously you misunderstood the idea. Batman Begins was a great movie. But Superman is a whole different character for haveing him getting the same treatment.

Anyway, SR did 20 millions more than BB.

And also got good reviews. Empire gave it 5 stars, like a classic, which I agree with. I think SR will be more appreciated as time goes by. It's so different to most superhero films (character-driven, very sentimental and full of heart), and that will help it to stand out.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Except this reviewers dont know jack about Superman as a character. Maybe thats why they gave him 5 stars.

 

[stargazer]

Except this reviewers dont know jack about Superman as a character. Maybe thats why they gave him 5 stars.

But you do? ...

So only the opinions of those who 'read' the comics are valid?! ... Gee, what a minority... and a self-centered and limited way of thinking.. By your logic, all of those thousands or millions of people who liked/loved the movie are wrong because they 'don't read' the comics? LOL! Ridiculous....and hilarious.

Everyone knows that Superman is a good guy that fights for truth and justice, saves people, and that flies and is superstrong. And that's all they need to know, if any.

 

[El Payaso]

Except this reviewers dont know jack about Superman as a character. Maybe thats why they gave him 5 stars.

I'm waiting for some evidence of this reviewers not knowing a thing about Superman. Or else I must assume it's a bare "everyone that doesn't agree with me is wrong"type of statement.

I can't know if they know about Superman, but I can tell they know about cinema.

 

[Super Kal]

and I'm waiting for the evidence that proves that Superman Returns was the most gloriously made and utterly perfect comic book movie ever made that all of you supporters make it out to be.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

and I'm waiting for the evidence that proves that Superman Returns was the most gloriously made and utterly perfect comic book movie ever made that all of you supporters make it out to be.

How do you prove an opinion? You can't. I think Superman Returns is great and I can give my opinion why I believe that but I can't prove it. Just like you can say it sucked and give us the reasons why you believe but can't prove it either.

SuperDaniel said that the reviewers don't know anything about Superman; which is a matter of fact rather than opinion. And there for can be proved either way.

 

[El Payaso]

and I'm waiting for the evidence that proves that Superman Returns was the most gloriously made and utterly perfect comic book movie ever made that all of you supporters make it out to be.

Since no one have claimed such statement in here, there's no need for such evidence.

 

[Super Kal]

Since no one have claimed such statement in here, there's no need for such evidence.

lol, wow... I guess you don't spend that much time in this forum.

I've seen that statement come around on this forum countless times, and I have yet to see any proof from their claim.

 

[Super Kal]

How do you prove an opinion? You can't. I think Superman Returns is great and I can give my opinion why I believe that but I can't prove it. Just like you can say it sucked and give us the reasons why you believe but can't prove it either.

exactly... so why do both sides try to make opinions sound like fact?

sorry if this sounds like a small rant, but I'm getting tired of people trying to make opinions sound like facts, no matter which side is saying it.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

exactly... so why do both sides try to make opinions sound like fact?

sorry if this sounds like a small rant, but I'm getting tired of people trying to make opinions sound like facts, no matter which side is saying it.

I actually don't see a lot of that here fromthe regulars on either side. Some might not always add "imo" but they rarely believe their opinion to be fact.

imo.

 

[El Payaso]

lol, wow... I guess you don't spend that much time in this forum.

I've seen that statement come around on this forum countless times, and I have yet to see any proof from their claim.

So it must be really easy for you to quote one of those multiple examples.

 

[mego joe]

But you do? ...

So only the opinions of those who 'read' the comics are valid?! ... Gee, what a minority... and a self-centered and limited way of thinking.. By your logic, all of those thousands or millions of people who liked/loved the movie are wrong because they 'don't read' the comics? LOL! Ridiculous....and hilarious.

Everyone knows that Superman is a good guy that fights for truth and justice, saves people, and that flies and is superstrong. And that's all they need to know, if any.

And it is his actions in the backstory that contradict this. A good guy would not leave Lois the way he did, nor engage in the sexual relationship without being honest about his identity. This makes him seem like not a good guy, and the story does nothing to show that this situation was mitigated by factors beyond his control, it just makes him out to be a weak and selfish person.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Mostpowerful, Superman is a comic book character. You cannot ignore the medium that he was originated. Obviously someone who read possibly all his stories, watched all the movies, serials, Tv series, cartoons have more KNOWLEDGE about the character than someone who goes just by one media or another. KNOWLEDGE is power.

Just because it MIGHT be good cinema, that doesnt mean it is faithfull to Superman and his ideals.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Mostpowerful, Superman is a comic book character. You cannot ignore the medium that he was originated. Obviously someone who read possibly all his stories, watched all the movies, serials, Tv series, cartoons have more KNOWLEDGE about the character than someone who goes just by one media or another. KNOWLEDGE is power.

Just because it MIGHT be good cinema, that doesnt mean it is faithfull to Superman and his ideals.

And how exactly do you know which critics have and haven't done this?

 

[stargazer]

I'm waiting for some evidence of this reviewers not knowing a thing about Superman. Or else I must assume it's a bare "everyone that doesn't agree with me is wrong"type of statement.

I can't know if they know about Superman, but I can tell they know about cinema.

Exactly.

And it is his actions in the backstory that contradict this. A good guy would not leave Lois the way he did, nor engage in the sexual relationship without being honest about his identity. This makes him seem like not a good guy, and the story does nothing to show that this situation was mitigated by factors beyond his control, it just makes him out to be a weak and selfish person.

Even good people make mistakes, even Superman. But of course, since you want him to be all around perfect and infallible, I see how SR was not 'your thing.' But I think, you have selective memory since the 'mistakes' Supes makes in other movies and Media, which he did/does, seem ok to you, and in character....I don't get it.. pretty wierd actually.

And how exactly do you know which critics have and haven't done this?

Yeah.

But I guess this way of thinking doesn't help Daniel's argument..

Besides, I read the comics, have seen lots of other Superman Media, and I still love SR.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Then how u cant see the problems with SR and think of it as the best superhero movie ever is beyond me. Maybe u didnt understand the comics u read, then...

a)How u think that this Lex Luthor in SR, campy bafoon with stupid sidekicks, is better than the post-crisis version or even Smallville`s.

b)And you don't see how absurd and out of character the fact that Superman vanished without saying nothing to anybody, especially being in a commited relationship with Lois Lane. And, the excuse for that was "Oh. I didnt have the balls to tell you, Lois."

That makes me laugh.

 

[afan]

Even good people make mistakes, even Superman. But of course, since you want him to be all around perfect and infallible, I see how SR was not 'your thing.' But I think, you have selective memory since the 'mistakes' Supes makes in other movies and Media, which he did/does, seem ok to you, and in character....I don't get it.. pretty wierd actually.

Firstly and specifically in the issue of leaving his love (Lois) without as much as a letter.

Clark tells us that the reason Superman did not say farewell to Lois is because it was too difficult for him to do. Simply put he was not capable of the responsibility. That is not a mistake.....that is a character flaw.

Mistakes are made when one travels the wrong path, but there must be multiple paths to take. In this case there was no weighing of options leading to a decision, there was no choice to make.....he just could not do it.

Please, Superman is not infallable and he can make mistakes in judgement; he can be fooled. However his inability to perform a common decency to the woman he loves, because it's to hard for him to do...... is not a mistake!

 

[SuperDaniel]

Exactely! Every time i discuss SR in more detail i get more pissed at Singer...

 

[El Payaso]

Firstly and specifically in the issue of leaving his love (Lois) without as much as a letter.

Clark tells us that the reason Superman did not say farewell to Lois is because it was too difficult for him to do. Simply put he was not capable of the responsibility. That is not a mistake.....that is a character flaw.

Mistakes are made when one travels the wrong path, but there must be multiple paths to take. In this case there was no weighing of options leading to a decision, there was no choice to make.....he just could not do it.

Please, Superman is not infallable and he can make mistakes in judgement; he can be fooled. However his inability to perform a common decency to the woman he loves, because it's to hard for him to do...... is not a mistake!

Same can be said about SII. Superman knew for a fact that he shouldn't quit his mission. He was warned and all, nevertheless he was weak and he chose his personal gratification. And as far as I can remember he didn't say good-bye to people or ti the President of the USA with whom he felt a commitment, since after the whole story he went before him to say "I'm sorry I made the wrong choice." Pretty much the same he did on SR.