Why I want everything to revert

[SuperT]

Agreed. They're in the exact same business with the exact same motivations. Only difference is Marvel has had the opportunity to learn from Fox and Sony's mistakes, and some of those mistakes may lay at the feet of Kevin Feige anyway. He was a producer or executive producer on everything from Elektra, Spider-Man 3, X-Men 3, Fantastic Four and 2003 Hulk. He basically got his own company and is now doing things well, and everyone's like 'oh, I'm we don't have to deal with Fox and Sony incompetence!' when it's several of the same people behind it. So silly.

BINGO. People seem to forget Feige was definitely in charge or oversaw some of the duds prior to the launch of the MCU. The guy isn't some genius that just stepped out of no where.

 

[Eddie]

Feige was a Marvel-assigned producer on those films, but he would have had very little creative control. Feige has more control now because Marvel is making their own films, and they are a studio that is VERY producer driven by all accounts. Marvel Studios is on record saying they didn't like some of the movies other studios were making with Marvel characters. That's why they started making their own. Feige wasn't really in charge of any Marvel movie before Iron Man.

 

[T"Challa]

BINGO. People seem to forget Feige was definitely in charge or oversaw some of the duds prior to the launch of the MCU. The guy isn't some genius that just stepped out of no where.

Feige didnt have nearly the pull he has with Marvel Studios with those earlier movies. I'm not saying he would have fixed the issues those movies had but he was a 'producer' pretty much in name only.

 

[Figs]

Feige was a Marvel-assigned producer on those films, but he would have had very little creative control. Feige has more control now because Marvel is making their own films, and they are a studio that is VERY producer driven by all accounts. Marvel Studios is on record saying they didn't like some of the movies other studios were making with Marvel characters. That's why they started making their own. Feige wasn't really in charge of any Marvel movie before Iron Man.

Feige didnt have nearly the pull he has with Marvel Studios with those earlier movies. I'm not saying he would have fixed the issues those movies had but he was a 'producer' pretty much in name only.

Exactly!

If people want to point the finger at someone for those other films it should probably be Avi Arad.

Arad still produces the MS films in some form but I imagine Feige has him on a leash. Especially when you look at the MS films and compare them to the rest of the comic book films Arad has produced.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Shouldn't WB also factor in superhero movie audience fatigue and Bubble Burstings?

They apparently have nine movies int he works.

I just don't particularly see any benefit to the X-Men being in the connected MCU honestly. The cross-overs in the comics are already a cluster**** of confusion as it is, and personally, I just don't particularly care to see the overall tone of the MCU in an X-Men movie.

Also, the X-Men continuity is such a cluster****

Disagree, they are a handful of inconsistencies but they have hardly any effect on the overall narrative.

I'm more interested in Marvel having FF just for Dr. Doom, Galactus, Surfer, and Skrulls. I couldn't care less about the FF themselves.

Imo this is precisely why they shouldn't revert. I've seen a lot of people say they just want them at Marvel so they can have the Avengers take their villains.

Marvel not spending money on Spidey and X-Men means they can spend money on GoTG, Doctor Strange, etc. In the end, we get more movies.

Agreed.

I disagree. All movies are inherently cash grabs because they are the result of a studio's investment with the expectation of returning a profit (with the few treating cinema as an art style, and as such, less emphasis on profiting). So you can't really call out Sony and Fox for grabbing cash, while Marvel is essentially doing the same with their movies.

Exactly

As for the bubble, Marvel is also somewhat responsible for the oversaturation considering that they're still pumping out quite a lot of superhero movies annually (we still have Avengers II, and III and an entire Phase 3 to expect, that's a LOT of movies, and potential for audience fatigue). I'm not bashing Marvel since I like a lot of their movies, but I don't think it's fair to call Sony and Fox out and ignore Marvel when they do similar things.

Yep. They have done and are doing more movies and in a shorter time-span than any others so if anyone is responsible for the escalation and possible bubble burst it's Marvel.

Also no other studio has stated they have two movies a year coming for the next 12 years.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Feige HAD some input when X1 was made, but after that he was basically the assistant to Arad, who, I believe, left MS in 2006/2007

 

[starscream22]

BINGO. People seem to forget Feige was definitely in charge or oversaw some of the duds prior to the launch of the MCU. The guy isn't some genius that just stepped out of no where.

What you see as "duds" over in the MCU are nothing like Sony's Ghost Rider or Fox's Electra. What's even funnier is that the majority of Fox and Sony's Marvel films that people do praise and feel compelled to bring up in arguments are all over 10 years old and Webb and Singer don't look to be duplicating that success any time soon.

So Feige might not be a genius but he hasn't had a flop under his belt yet. Mind you MCU movies have always been kicking the crap out of Fox's X-men films but now they've got Sony looking over their shoulder because Iron Man and now Captain America.

 

[starscream22]

Disagree, they are a handful of inconsistencies but they have hardly any effect on the overall narrative.

Tell that to the millions of moviegoers watching MCU's films instead of Fox's despite Fox having the more popular franchise in most cases. Just to clarify Iron Man wasn't even a household name until 2007.

Imo this is precisely why they shouldn't revert. I've seen a lot of people say they just want them at Marvel so they can have the Avengers take their villains.

As oppose to Fox b@stardizing the F4 characters yet again or not bothering to use them at all...?

Selfish but good point I guess.

Also no other studio has stated they have two movies a year coming for the next 12 years.

You would think this would be in Marvel's favor. Especially when it takes WB 3 years just to do one.

Just to be clear IM3, Thor2 and TWS all released within 11 months. Four in 15 months if you count GOTG. So I'm not really worried about Marvel short changing anything.

I wonder how that Deadpool project is coming along though...

 

[Tymminator]

If everything did revert, it would not break my heart in any way.

 

[Eddie]

According to Max Landis, Marvel has reacquired Spider-Man. I have no idea how the **** Max Landis would know that, though, so take that with the world's largest grain of salt.

 

[Chance Jackson]

According to Max Landis, Marvel has reacquired Spider-Man. I have no idea how the **** Max Landis would know that, though, so take that with the world's largest grain of salt.

Impossible I doubt Sony would ever sell Spidey back or let him expire.

 

[Orba]

Maybe, but Sony are expected to report billion dollar losses tomorrow so if Disney had approached them with an offer they might have gone for it.

 

[Eddie]

Maybe, but Sony are expected to report billion dollar losses tomorrow so if Disney had approached them with an offer they might have gone for it.

To add, Sony's execs are not getting their annual bonuses, they recently had to start selling their stuff, and they've just announced some changes in their television division (likely due to their financial issues). Still, though. Giant grain of salt, folks.

 

[Chance Jackson]

Spidey is a license to print money. Short of 2 billion Sony would be crazy to sell and Disney would be crazy to buy at that price.

 

[Eddie]

Spidey is a license to print money. Short of 2 billion Sony would be crazy to sell and Disney would be crazy to buy at that price.

Eh, Spider-Man isn't really a license to print money when you don't have the merchandise rights. In the wise words of Yogurt, "Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made." Disney is likely making more money on TASM2 than Sony is.

 

[Spooderman]

Eh, Spider-Man isn't really a license to print money when you don't have the merchandise rights. In the wise words of Yogurt, "Merchandising, merchandising, where the real money from the movie is made." Disney is likely making more money on TASM2 than Sony is.

They still get money for TASM2 specific merchandise (although I'm sure Disney would get a cut)

 

[Eddie]

They still get money for TASM2 specific merchandise (although I'm sure Disney would get a cut)

They don't. Disney has ALL of the merch rights now. Oddly enough, Happy Meal toys give some of the most compelling evidence. Take a look at this link.

http://www.happymeal.com/en_US/index.html

Notice how the TM and copyright info only lists Marvel in the fine print. Now take a look at this link.

http://www.carlscoolkids.com/

20th Century Fox is listed in the fine print and their logo is prominently featured.

The Spider-Man merchandise deal reverted to Marvel along with the television rights. It seems that even merchandise that uses images from Sony's films (one of the Happy Meal toys is a tin of trading cards) is all Marvel now.

 

[EssayM]

While I do have some issues with how other studios are handling Marvel characters, I don't think having all the rights revert is the answer. The MCU has more than enough to develop without throwing Spidey, the FF, and all of the X-Men in there. The MCU doesn't really need them, and they would probably get lost in the crowd if they were there.

An occasional change of creative personnel, however, I'm all for.

 

[Spooderman]

They don't. Disney has ALL of the merch rights now. Oddly enough, Happy Meal toys give some of the most compelling evidence. Take a look at this link.

http://www.happymeal.com/en_US/index.html

Notice how the TM and copyright info only lists Marvel in the fine print. Now take a look at this link.

I'd imagine that selling TASM2 merchandise without compensating Sony would violate IP. That's the reason why while Disney has TV rights for Spidey, they can't make more episodes of Spectacular.

 

[Eddie]

I'd imagine that selling TASM2 merchandise without compensating Sony would violate IP. That's the reason why while Disney has TV rights for Spidey, they can't make more episodes of Spectacular.

The same deal that reverted the television rights to Marvel also gave them all merch. Sony did get compensation, sort of. They no longer have to give Marvel a percentage of the box office money from Spidey films. Look at it this way: Marvel makes all money from the movie merchandise in exchange for not getting their cut for the big screen adaptation of their IP. If Spidey films were bringing in Avengers level money at the box office, the deal probably would have benefited Sony. A couple percent of one and a half billion is a great deal of money that they would have owed Disney if they still saw a cut. As it is, though, the movies aren't making Avengers money. Disney's getting the better deal.

 

[Hyde]

Spidey is a license to print money. Short of 2 billion Sony would be crazy to sell and Disney would be crazy to buy at that price.

Where did you get that number from?

In regards to the Max Landis thing, he later tweeted that he was joking but it is kinda fishy. If he had kept the tweets up then it would have been more obviously a joke but the fact that he then said straight after that he maybe shouldn't have tweeted that, and then deleted them, is suspicious. He also said something about "waiting and seeing in five months," or whatever.

TASM2 definitely hasn't had the critical or commercial success Sony were hoping for, but it's not so bad that they need to sell it to Marvel. The current gross is still a decent amount of money. Although if future films continue to dwindle, I expect Marvel to have the rights back by the end of the decade. Maybe even sooner.

 

[Spooderman]

The same deal that reverted the television rights to Marvel also gave them all merch. Sony did get compensation, sort of. They no longer have to give Marvel a percentage of the box office money from Spidey films. Look at it this way: Marvel makes all money from the movie merchandise in exchange for not getting their cut for the big screen adaptation of their IP. If Spidey films were bringing in Avengers level money at the box office, the deal probably would have benefited Sony. A couple percent of one and a half billion is a great deal of money that they would have owed Disney if they still saw a cut. As it is, though, the movies aren't making Avengers money. Disney's getting the better deal.

Well if Sony made that deal, it was pretty friggin stupid since the only superhero movie that crossed 1B at the time was The Dark Knight. And I don't think Disney would be able to make TASM specific merchandise withouth Sony's permission, so why would Sony allow them? Free Advertisement?

Merchandise usually sells more, especially for Superheros.

 

[Eddie]

Sony may have had no choice. We don't know the exact details, but this deal took place took place shortly before they rebooted Spidey for film. Giving up tv and merchandise gave them the option to have full control of their reboot. According to Disney's CEO, the deal "simplified" their arrangement, but it's hard to say what all he meant by that.

 

[venom892]

Sony made the TV/Merchandise deal to extend the film rights. It was a pretty big story when it happened.

 

[Tymminator]

If they all ever did, I would be OK with it. They are a new studio relatively and have lots of potential.