WHY IS the killing joke regarded as origin story?

[Comics N' Toons]

Um yeah, I cllect comics and I've never actually read The illing Joke but I know as much as possible about it, without actually having read it.

Now here is the problem... EVERYONE SAYS IT IS the 1st DEFINITIVE ORIGIN STORY FOR THE JOKER but what about

Secret Origins Vol. 2 #23 (February 1988) Shine On You Crazy Diamond


this story is the first origin and probably a better one than the Alan Moore/ Brian Boland story...

Maybe the Killing Joke outshines this story or maybe this story is lost to history... that could be why THE KILLING JOKE is seen as the definitive joker origin ...



YOUR THOUGHTS??????????????????????????

 

[jimmy]

I think you need to stop smoking crack.

 

[Mister J]

Actually, the first Joker origin was back in 1951. Also, I don't see how TKJ could be considered definitive when Joker himself mentions that he's not exactly sure what happened ("I prefer it multiple choice").

Maybe some refer to it as their favorite Joker story or that they like the origin as presented there, but that's an entirely different issue. In short, what are you babbling about?

 

[BubbaGump]

Knowing and reading are completely different things. If you took the time to actually read the book you would figure out that is indeed an origin story.

It's NOT definitive, it's a possible origin story.

 

[Darkfly]

I think the Joker's true origin's will never be revealed, its like his real name nobody will ever truly know his real name but a few comics plus the Batman (1989) movie gave him a name but are not considered to canon.

 

[Mladen]

I think most people mean its the BEST Joker origin story, obviously not the first.

You have no excuse for saying another origin is 'better' than it without reading TKJ though. Seriously.

 

[Acid Snowman]

It was just a more complex version of the original Joker origin story from the fifties (Red Hood, chemical vat etc), so it's completely in vain with the comics in terms of history and characterisation. It's a good story, but I don't think Moore was completely successfull in making the point he wanted with it, so it may come across as reading slightly pretentious. He himself agrees it was his least favourite work for DC, but it least was the backbone of most good Joker stories for a while.

 

[Lazlo Panaflex]

There are so many Joker origins out there that over in Batman Confidential there's a Joker origin arc which DC doesn't even promote as if they don't care which origin the fans believe.

 

[Spider-Bat]

The Killing Joke is an awesome origin for the Joker, and alot like the others that were written, he gets caught between the police and Batman and jumps into the vat of chemicals to escape.

It's sure his origin to me and the others that were done before, they're all the same usually. But that new thing in Batman Chronicles is not his origin, that is nothing to me, it is horribly written and looks to be drawn by a ******ed four year old with his feet.

 

[Joker]

Actually, the first Joker origin was back in 1951. Also, I don't see how TKJ could be considered definitive when Joker himself mentions that he's not exactly sure what happened ("I prefer it multiple choice").

Maybe some refer to it as their favorite Joker story or that they like the origin as presented there, but that's an entirely different issue. In short, what are you babbling about?

Killing Joke was brought into continuity before Infinite Crisis during a Gotham Knights arc, where it was 100% confirmed to be the way it actually happened. But, IC knocked it back out of continuity, and is now once again just one of many multiple choice origins.

 

[Agentsands77]

THE KILLING JOKE's origin flashbacks aren't at all definitive, though it does bug me when it gets treated as such. It's just a possible origin story. Heck, given how unreliable Joker's memory seems to be, it could be an entirely fabricated past that he created to justify his actions. Who knows?

 

[The Iron Man]

It is a possible origin story, but many people consider it the most definitive tale of the Joker's life before the chemical bath. Because it is the origin being adopted by the Dark Knight filmakers, it provides audiences who are not Bat-Fans another possible origin to the Joker, as we also have the Batman 1989 origin. Therefore the films are very much like the comics, with no definitive origin of the Joker.

 

[Agentsands77]

Because it is the origin being adopted by the Dark Knight filmakers

Uh, not necessarily.

Spoiler

All indications, including official comments on the issue, are that they never demonstrate any origin for the Joker character.

 

[AgentGraves!]

In my opinion any story taking claim to a Joker Origin should not have any stake in said matter...I think the Joker is better with out one, Just as Ra's...you don't know where he came from or what is entire story is...he is just as he is....and that is what the Joker should be...

Also, To me TKJ is told through joker's P.O.V., i feel....so that automatically raises an eye brow, because you shouldn't trust what the Joker says....end of story...in my eyes...

 

[Motown Marvel]

simply put, because alan moore is better than everyone else.

 

[Armored Avenger]

Uh, not necessarily.

Spoiler

All indications, including official comments on the issue, are that they never demonstrate any origin for the Joker character.

Yes, but The Killing Joke is what was given to Heath Ledger in preperation for the role, so he will be playing the Joker with that origin in mind

 

[The Empire Ape]

simply put, because alan moore is better than everyone else.

Moore wrote good stories, Moore wrote bad stories.

Just like every other author.

 

[Motown Marvel]

^^and his good stories are better than everyone elses.

 

[The Empire Ape]

^^and his good stories are better than everyone elses.

i doubt it.

man, i hate this god-ification of some authors.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

killing joke is overrated, great art work, but the story, urg.

 

[hulkamania85]

Overall I think Killing Joke is a great story. While Barbara's eventual transformation into Oracle was great, at first in this story doing that to Batgirl seemed a bit much. I for one wasn't a big fan of that 80's-90's backlash on superhero sidekicks, plus it's yet another Women in Refrigerators moment. But other than that, it was a good story and is praised so highly because it's the best possible Joker origin we have. While it may or may not be definitive, it's the best we got.

 

[Agentsands77]

Yes, but The Killing Joke is what was given to Heath Ledger in preperation for the role, so he will be playing the Joker with that origin in mind

Maybe, maybe not.

It certainly seems as if a tragic origin is in mind for Nolan's Joker (given the campaign's e-mail address for the Joker is tragicpast@ibelieveinharveydenttoo.com), but given that the Joker seemingly will not have bleached skin and such, it's hardly a faithful take on THE KILLING JOKE.

I imagine THE KILLING JOKE was given to Ledger not so much for the origin details, but just to get a feel for the character with the vicious side they were looking to bring.

 

[Drunken Savior]

TKJ is one of the most popular stories for the Joker's orgin. But I, personally, hate that the Joker was a sympathetic character before his accident. Sure, in the context of storytelling, it made perfect sense (Since the story is a Batman and Joker relationship story that centered around Joker's retelling of his orgin). But, to me, the Joker can't be a character the audience is suposted to feel any remorse, sorrow, or pity for.

Simply put, the more we know about the Joker, the less interesting of a character he becomes. At least in my opinion.

 

[Nepenthes]

so has he read the story yet?

 

[CorpusBlack]

These several possible origins are what make the Joker one of the greatest characters ever. It just adds to the intrigue and the mystery surrounding him. It's not important how he came to be. What's important is what he has become.