Why Men Are No Longer Willing To Marry.

[The Original Bamfer]

The only thing I see wrong with marriage in the media is that fictional accounts don't make it out to be something you want. Look at all the sitcoms featuring married couples...the guy wants to have fun, relax, etc. And the wife, hot as she may be, is the biggest shrew ***** on the face of the earth.

Best Example:

 

[jaguarr]

I don't see the difference. You achieve orgasm either way.

Like I said, you won't understand until you have sex with a real, live woman.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

Well,.. that could be part of it. Marriage today is seen by most single men as voluntarily putting ones nads in a velvet-covered nutcracker and handing them over to a being who once a month could kill you as easily as kiss you.

Ahhh, more buying into the myth that all women become this monstrous, irrational, angry, behemoth when their period hits and the PMS starts. In all my years of dating I only ever encountered one woman that got a little bit pissy when that time of the month came around. The rest were really not that much different as they were the rest of the time. my wife just sleeps more than usual when her Aunt Flo shows up and visits once a month.

Marriage as it currently stands is more benifit to females than males,...
(Hmmn,.. thats a good topic starter.)

V.

Really not feeling that. Could you explain your position, more?

jag

 

[Varient]

[

yeah I'm condsidering not marrying...... that article pretty much scared the **** out of me.

take it as a cautionary tale,..................

 

[Varient]

So if your wife is complaining constantly, count yourself lucky.


- Although, I don't know why I'm finding that funny, because that article describes pretty much what happened to me.

LOL at the first part:

Sorry to hear it on the second.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I honestly can't wait to get married. Well, I can, and, uh, I will. But, I know I definitely want to.

 

[kainedamo]

I don't see the difference. You achieve orgasm either way.

Oh, come on dude. What are you, addicted to porn or something?

The differences are obvious and infinite.

Sometimes when I watch porn, I get ****ing depressed 'cause I'm not having real contact with a woman. I watched a documentary about guys addicted to porn, and these guys were ****ing miserable because they couldn't break their porn addiction and have actual relationships with women.

Even taking out the comfort and love that a woman can bring out of the occasion, a real woman beats porn every time. Masterbation after awhile is boring and depressing. Touching a woman, and having her touch you is great.

But then, I haven't had any in years so what would I know.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Oh, come on dude. What are you, addicted to porn or something?

The differences are obvious and infinite.

Sometimes when I watch porn, I get ****ing depressed 'cause I'm not having real contact with a woman. I watched a documentary about guys addicted to porn, and these guys were ****ing miserable because they couldn't break their porn addiction and have actual relationships with women.

Even taking out the comfort and love that a woman can bring out of the occasion, a real woman beats porn every time. Masterbation after awhile is boring and depressing. Touching a woman, and having her touch you is great.

But then, I haven't had any in years so what would I know.

...

 

[Varient]

I gotta ask the other obvious question, why do men want to get married at all? I say forget live women and stick to internet porn. It doesn't ask for a commitment.

???
Okay,... having been up to my hips in a woman,... I have to ask:

Why do you think internet porn is even a fair substitute?

 

[Varient]

So, you got her drunk, took advantage of her and then put her in a high pressure situation first thing in the morning when she was probably hung-over and definitely not completely awake yet. Awesome!

jag

Harsh.

 

[Varient]

It could be worse...

Spoiler

hmph,.. I'm sure she looks better when she's not competing.
but yes,... that is worse.

V.

 

[Varient]

Oh, please expound on this.

Why should I dig in a hole already dug?


.......................... Okay:

In America @ this moment,.... Males lose more than they initially gain in marriage.

Women gain, (Under American law), access to everything you earn from the time you marry her in the event of divorce.
(sad but true,... this is what allows such large unreasonable settlement amounts.)

Women can easily get pref treatment under our laws based entirely on gender.
(child custody, visitation, alimony)
All by just getting married.
Men have been laughed out of court for even trying unless the woman was very wealthy with a drug problem.

On the immediate benifits - I defy you to list FIVE OUTSIDE OF LOVE AND SEX that men get out of the deal.

There ARE NONE.

There was a time where gender roles reduced the friction between the sexes and coupled with a religious or moral upbringing allowed marriage to be a good deal.

But with the advent of folk being raised to believe that the immediate answer to a problem in marriage is divorce,..... I have to nod at this article and ask the current single folk:

Why bother?

Ahhh, more buying into the myth that all women become this monstrous, irrational, angry, behemoth when their period hits and the PMS starts. In all my years of dating I only ever encountered one woman that got a little bit pissy when that time of the month came around. The rest were really not that much different as they were the rest of the time. my wife just sleeps more than usual when her Aunt Flo shows up and visits once a month.



Really not feeling that. Could you explain your position, more?

jag

Nope.
This "Myth" as you say,.. has groundings in FACT that are based more on upbringing than anything else.

If a woman is raised to behave properly when faced with her period,... you won't see all the stuff "you" said. If she hasn't,... her killing someone during that period (pun intended) is the next best thing to a "twinkie defense."

And are you disagreeing with my opinion that single men could see marriage as I described?

V.

 

[jaguarr]

Why should I dig in a hole already dug?


.......................... Okay:

In America @ this moment,.... Males lose more than they initially gain in marriage.

Women gain, (Under American law), access to everything you earn from the time you marry her in the event of divorce.
(sad but true,... this is what allows such large unreasonable settlement amounts.)

Women can easily get pref treatment under our laws based entirely on gender.
(child custody, visitation, alimony)
All by just getting married.
Men have been laughed out of court for even trying unless the woman was very wealthy with a drug problem.

On the immediate benifits - I defy you to list FIVE OUTSIDE OF LOVE AND SEX that men get out of the deal.

There ARE NONE.

There was a time where gender roles reduced the friction between the sexes and coupled with a religious or moral upbringing allowed marriage to be a good deal.

But with the advent of folk being raised to believe that the immediate answer to a problem in marriage is divorce,..... I have to nod at this article and ask the current single folk:

Why bother?

Are you looking at marriage purely from a fiscal and legal perspective? If so, then things like a secure relationship, emotional understanding, companionship, love and sharing a life together probably aren't going to count high on your list of things men get from a woman in a marriage. They're very high on mine, though. The other thought I have is that the legal conditions are changing in this country and women are not getting away with the things they used to where divorce is concerned. They're losing custody of their kids for being bad parents (celebrity substance abuse optional), they're being forced to pay alimony because they make more money than the man they were married to in some instances, and they are being made to own up to their responsibilities and obligations and carry equal burden in a divorce in general, both legally and financially. It's more evolved in some parts of the country than others, but it is changing. Rapidly, too.

Nope.
This "Myth" as you say,.. has groundings in FACT that are based more on upbringing than anything else.

If a woman is raised to behave properly when faced with her period,... you won't see all the stuff "you" said. If she hasn't,... her killing someone during that period (pun intended) is the next best thing to a "twinkie defense."

You're trying to make it a nurture vs. nature thing? Couldn't disagree more. My aunt is a raving loon during her periods. She has three daughters. NONE of them have that same issue as her and have all talked about how glad they are that they don't get "the crazies" during that time of the month. By all accounts, they should have this issue both from nature AND nurture as they were raised in a home where it was made to seem perfectly acceptable, normal and EXPECTED to lose your goddamned mind when Aunt Flo hit town. Yet they are not this way. I think some women use it as an EXCUSE and others genuinely lose control of their hormones, no matter how or what they are taught growing up.

And are you disagreeing with my opinion that single men could see marriage as I described?

I've never said that it could not be seen that way. I know plenty of guys who see marriage as a death trap. But that doesn't mean that it is said death trap or that being married is this awful thing that single people should avoid at all costs no matter what. When you try to turn individual instances into absolute representations of the entire thing, that's where I start differing.

jag

 

[bell110]

as for the act itself....my philosophy is "Just because I'm sexing you doesn't mean I like you".....call me shallow.....I dont care....I just havent found the right one yet

Nice

High Five

 

[Varient]

Are you looking at marriage purely from a fiscal and legal perspective? If so, then things like a secure relationship, emotional understanding, companionship, love and sharing a life together probably aren't going to count high on your list of things men get from a woman in a marriage. They're very high on mine, though.

Not purely,... after all - I got married,... was married for 14 mostly good years before she passed away,... But the upbringing and background of my wife was such where the concerns listed here were not an issue. She came into it with me as my wife,.. not some independent female who had a pass/fail meter set up that if I failed she would bail.

The other thought I have is that the legal conditions are changing in this country and women are not getting away with the things they used to where divorce is concerned. They're losing custody of their kids for being bad parents (celebrity substance abuse optional), they're being forced to pay alimony because they make more money than the man they were married to in some instances, and they are being made to own up to their responsibilities and obligations and carry equal burden in a divorce in general, both legally and financially. It's more evolved in some parts of the country than others, but it is changing. Rapidly, too.

Not fast enough to save the poor slob in the article,.... which is a very telling point.

She can make slanderous statements that don't have to be proven to get her way,... she can easily destroy his money-making capabilities with legal help from the outside simply to get a maximum amount of money short term.

As someone else pointed out - you are a fool to enter into marriage esp in California - there is just too much to lose if it doesn't work out.

You have to choose carefully or suffer for the rest of your life.

You're trying to make it a nurture vs. nature thing? Couldn't disagree more. My aunt is a raving loon during her periods. She has three daughters. NONE of them have that same issue as her and have all talked about how glad they are that they don't get "the crazies" during that time of the month. By all accounts, they should have this issue both from nature AND nurture as they were raised in a home where it was made to seem perfectly acceptable, normal and EXPECTED to lose your goddamned mind when Aunt Flo hit town. Yet they are not this way. I think some women use it as an EXCUSE and others genuinely lose control of their hormones, no matter how or what they are taught growing up.

???
Not even. Nature and/or Nuture = stable behavior during her time of the month?

First you say you don't see the behavior and call it a myth,... then you say that you have seen it but it can't be upbringing that determines how women cope because the aunt had daughters who didn't go round the bend once a month?

I'm giving all women the benifit by saying that the loonies just have not been taught how to cope,.. and that there are enough of these women who can't cope to form the current stereotype that a woman during that time is a dangerous creature.

I betchu $.25 that the three daughters looked at Mom swinging from the ceiling while screaming and thought: "Not me,.. I'll be damned if I'll act that crazy just because of my ovulation cycle."

I'd go further to say that if the most hormone challenged out of control fem were faced with a 2 by 4 across her bottom everytime she went off during her period,... that the irrational behavior would stop within three to four months.

(no,... I'm not advocating the use of "2 by 4" behavior-modification on half the planets population.)

I've never said that it could not be seen that way. I know plenty of guys who see marriage as a death trap. But that doesn't mean that it is said death trap or that being married is this awful thing that single people should avoid at all costs no matter what. When you try to turn individual instances into absolute representations of the entire thing, that's where I start differing.

jag

(chuckle)
That was an observation,.. gleaned from asking those single guys around my cubicle,.... edited for use on the messageboard,.... they were much more graphic.

V.

 

[zanos]

Divorce is inevitable. People are not meant to live together for such long lengths of time. Men and women should prepare for when it happens and not consistently try and prevent the unknown on a daily basis. The article is right most men do seem to be clueless when it happens to them. Look at Nick Lachey. One can only wonder why it was Jessica Simpson who sought for divorce before him yet it happened. This is just one example of many. Some dude I kinda know who got married young got divorce papers from his wife recently as I had predicted 2 years previous. A friend of mine just recently proposed to his girlfriend of a few months after not being with a women for nearly 20 years. I'm sure you can imagine the reasons for that proposal. This potential marriage will work out wonderfully.

 

[jaguarr]

Not purely,... after all - I got married,... was married for 14 mostly good years before she passed away,... But the upbringing and background of my wife was such where the concerns listed here were not an issue. She came into it with me as my wife,.. not some independent female who had a pass/fail meter set up that if I failed she would bail.

Sorry to hear that you lost your wife. I didn't know that. So, surely you know that not all women have that whole "pass/fail, I'll bail on you if you don't measure up" thing going on. I just get the sense that you're trying to generalize and lump all women into the same category and that's where I'm differing from you.

Not fast enough to save the poor slob in the article,.... which is a very telling point.

That's HIS experience and doesn't really reflect everyone else's experiences, or what experiences others might have. It's just his experience, nothing more.

She can make slanderous statements that don't have to be proven to get her way,... she can easily destroy his money-making capabilities with legal help from the outside simply to get a maximum amount of money short term.

Men can do the same damn things, though, and I have seen it happen many times when I was working in the court system. There are no rules when it comes to nasty, ugly divorces and I've seen just as many women get full-on screwed to the wall by the system as I have men.

As someone else pointed out - you are a fool to enter into marriage esp in California - there is just too much to lose if it doesn't work out.

And everything to gain if it does work out.

???
Not even. Nature and/or Nuture = stable behavior during her time of the month?

First you say you don't see the behavior and call it a myth,... then you say that you have seen it but it can't be upbringing that determines how women cope because the aunt had daughters who didn't go round the bend once a month?

I said the myth was that all women are raving loonies during their periods, not that I just hadn't flat out seen it before. You presented the issue as if it were a blanket truth for all women and I was simply disagreeing with you on that point.

I'm giving all women the benifit by saying that the loonies just have not been taught how to cope,.. and that there are enough of these women who can't cope to form the current stereotype that a woman during that time is a dangerous creature.

See, I don't know that it's something they have to be TAUGHT to cope with. Some people just naturally handle themselves during stressful times better than others. Does being taught how to deal with it in a constructive manner help? Absolutely. I just don't think it's a necessity as you are insinuating.

I betchu $.25 that the three daughters looked at Mom swinging from the ceiling while screaming and thought: "Not me,.. I'll be damned if I'll act that crazy just because of my ovulation cycle."

LOL! Yeah, no doubt they came to that conclusion.

I'd go further to say that if the most hormone challenged out of control fem were faced with a 2 by 4 across her bottom everytime she went off during her period,... that the irrational behavior would stop within three to four months.

(no,... I'm not advocating the use of "2 by 4" behavior-modification on half the planets population.)

I'd say the same treatment might get some positive results out of boys and men who can't handle their testosterone and go into caveman mode, beating people up, driving dangerously aggressive, threatening others and generally just letting rage drive them to do some of the sh1tty things they do.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

Divorce is inevitable. People are not meant to live together for such long lengths of time. Men and women should prepare for when it happens and not consistently try and prevent the unknown on a daily basis. The article is right most men do seem to be clueless when it happens to them. Look at Nick Lachey. One can only wonder why it was Jessica Simpson who sought for divorce before him yet it happened. This is just one example of many. Some dude I kinda know who got married young got divorce papers from his wife recently as I had predicted 2 years previous. A friend of mine just recently proposed to his girlfriend of a few months after not being with a women for nearly 20 years. I'm sure you can imagine the reasons for that proposal. This potential marriage will work out wonderfully.

Sorry, but

jag

 

[Varient]

Divorce is inevitable. People are not meant to live together for such long lengths of time. Men and women should prepare for when it happens and not consistently try and prevent the unknown on a daily basis. The article is right most men do seem to be clueless when it happens to them. Look at Nick Lachey. One can only wonder why it was Jessica Simpson who sought for divorce before him yet it happened. This is just one example of many. Some dude I kinda know who got married young got divorce papers from his wife recently as I had predicted 2 years previous. A friend of mine just recently proposed to his girlfriend of a few months after not being with a women for nearly 20 years. I'm sure you can imagine the reasons for that proposal. This potential marriage will work out wonderfully.

Harsh.

I would say that it is not inevitable. My parents have been married once. they remain married. Based on their behavior,... they will remain married until death.

I was married once,... the same applies.

I just think it's a case of a selfish society raising "me" kids into "me" adults.

Overhearing a woman telling her friend that if it doesn't work out,.. just get a divorce and get everything from the marriage chilled me.

I was further disheartened at her noticing that I had heard her,.. and after too long a pause saying: "Just kidding".

I would bet that if the legal advantages of divorce were taken away,... a lot of women would decide to not get married.

V.

 

[jaguarr]

Harsh.

I would say that it is not inevitable. My parents have been married once. they remain married. Based on their behavior,... they will remain married until death.

I was married once,... the same applies.

I just think it's a case of a selfish society raising "me" kids into "me" adults.

Overhearing a woman telling her friend that if it doesn't work out,.. just get a divorce and get everything from the marriage chilled me.

I was further disheartened at her noticing that I had heard her,.. and after too long a pause saying: "Just kidding".

I would bet that if the legal advantages of divorce were taken away,... a lot of women would decide to not get married.

V.

This is something I agree with you on; everything has become disposable and "instant gratification" in our society including relationships and marriage. If it's not super easy and requires a little work to be put into it, then just quit it and move on. It's sad, actually.

jag

 

[Badger]

Divorce is inevitable. People are not meant to live together for such long lengths of time. Men and women should prepare for when it happens and not consistently try and prevent the unknown on a daily basis. The article is right most men do seem to be clueless when it happens to them. Look at Nick Lachey. One can only wonder why it was Jessica Simpson who sought for divorce before him yet it happened. This is just one example of many. Some dude I kinda know who got married young got divorce papers from his wife recently as I had predicted 2 years previous. A friend of mine just recently proposed to his girlfriend of a few months after not being with a women for nearly 20 years. I'm sure you can imagine the reasons for that proposal. This potential marriage will work out wonderfully.

Sorry, but that whole post is absolute rubbish. Maybe if you didn't have idiots for friends, then your outlook on marriage would be different.

 

[bell110]

I was hanging out with a friend of a friend two nights ago. She's in her late 40's, been married 19 years. She drunk and going on and on about how her marrage is falling apart. She's seeing a guy behind his back, he might be see a girl behind hers. She said they were going to get divorced. She ask me if she should go ahead with the divorce or try to salvage the marrage. I told her to go through with it. I said, since they don't have kids, why be with someone who makes you miserable. She seemed kind of shocked by my answer. Maybe she was looking for me to say salvage it.

 

[Daisy]

So if your wife is complaining constantly, count yourself lucky.


- Although, I don't know why I'm finding that funny, because that article describes pretty much what happened to me.

Lizzy no...

I'm sorry.

 

[Obi-Ron]

???
Okay,... having been up to my hips in a woman,... I have to ask:

Why do you think internet porn is even a fair substitute?

Because you can turn the sound off?

 

[Varient]

Sorry to hear that you lost your wife. I didn't know that. So, surely you know that not all women have that whole "pass/fail, I'll bail on you if you don't measure up" thing going on. I just get the sense that you're trying to generalize and lump all women into the same category and that's where I'm differing from you.

No I'm not lumping women,.. I'm lumping concequences and the general feeling by single males who are considering marriage.

Devils advocate:
If you are shacking up with and cheerfully engaged in sexual relations with a female that you love, why exactly are you going to marry her?

Pat answer: To make your association official.

Cynical answer : To please her and reassure her that you won't bail the first time she gets knocked up.

Even single males in love have thought of answer number two. From engagement to the honeymoon,.... It was all about my wife. It wasn't about "us" except when I stepped to the plate and said "I do." Other than that it was "her day".

Marriage in the eyes of our families made our love "official". I didn't need it. She didn't need it - My wife loved me and was willing to do w/o,... but she appreciated and wanted marriage enough that given the choice she prefered it.

(what am I trying to say?)

That's HIS experience and doesn't really reflect everyone else's experiences, or what experiences others might have. It's just his experience, nothing more.

no.
It's much more than "just his experiences". It's happening enough to write articles about,.. happening enough to give too many single men pause. IF, (in capitals) , IF this happens as they say,.. one in four males getting blindsided, then I'd think "25%" of men getting divorced in this drive - by - version is more than an isolated experience.

Men can do the same damn things, though, and I have seen it happen many times when I was working in the court system. There are no rules when it comes to nasty, ugly divorces and I've seen just as many women get full-on screwed to the wall by the system as I have men.

No doubt - I already admitted that there is a flip side to this,... sumbody needs to find an article discussing the same thing.

And everything to gain if it does work out.

meh
Mantra for this thread : "Choose carefully."

I said the myth was that all women are raving loonies during their periods, not that I just hadn't flat out seen it before. You presented the issue as if it were a blanket truth for all women and I was simply disagreeing with you on that point.

--------------

See, I don't know that it's something they have to be TAUGHT to cope with. Some people just naturally handle themselves during stressful times better than others. Does being taught how to deal with it in a constructive manner help? Absolutely. I just don't think it's a necessity as you are insinuating.

Can we agree that some women need to be taught?

I'd say the same treatment might get some positive results out of boys and men who can't handle their testosterone and go into caveman mode, beating people up, driving dangerously aggressive, threatening others and generally just letting rage drive them to do some of the sh1tty things they do.

jag

No doubt,.. but you need to get them as soon as they mess up.
this delayed mess - or wasting my money putting them up for years when a good beating would serve better - is for the birds.

you match "caveman mode for caveman mode" if violence is what they understand,.. hold the convo in caveman then.


V.